--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5P00020 Date: 05/12/96 From: SHADOWCAT Time: 02:02am \/To: JEFF HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: multi-program recovery Hi Jeff - I'm responding to your posting to Esther about the drawbacks of large metropolitan meetings... and I can't get "quote" to work, so I hope you remember what you said! It might be a case of "the grass is always greener..." syndrome, but a large metropolitan meeting sounds ideal to me! Fellowship is not a guaranteed thing in a smaller community either. Those of us who find our way into 12 step rooms have problems to work out, whether we're in a small community or a larger one! In my experience, in smaller communities the sharing around a table is more personal, because with a smaller group there is more time to share, and the group as a whole might have a chance to get to know one another more intimately, but there can still be problems. For one thing, the group might be clique-y and you might not fit into their cliques, and there might not be any wider selection of people to get close to! Who you see might be all the people there are, and if you can't fit into the group you can feel quite alienated. I have known of people who really needed (or wanted to find help from) AA, who felt judged and rejected by the local AA group as a whole, and then felt that they had no where else to turn. There can be a tendency of members bonding with other members who they have known for many years, and their fellowship feels exclusive and seems to exclude newcomers. In my community, it seems that a group of members socialize together and call one another and seem to have a great thing going, but other members aren't part of their gang, and can feel left out and be hurt by it. I have gone to large meetings when I've been in cities, NA, AA, and alanon meetings (and at conventions) where the sheer number of people has been exhiliarating to me, and I have felt welcome and felt that I was sharing in the experience in a way that I have never felt in the small towns where I have lived since finding sobriety in my own life. There can also be the problem of a group being so small that it seems like it's always the same stories, same reactions, and same damn meetings over again. NA has virtually vanished here because of this. The main members were a married couple and one of the couple's siblings who moved away to a nearby city, and without their stability holding the meeting together, it's just about fizzled out. In the small communities I have lived in, the alanons have always seemed to openly welcome and assimilate some newcomers, while not showing the same entusiasm toward others, who I know have felt hurt by it. Yes, multi-program recovery has been my saving. I started in Alanon because I used to think that my only troubles were on account of other people's "problems" and then after a while I found NA which really straightened me out, no pun intended, but it fits. After a while in recovery I got into ACOA for a long time too, and have been to open AA meetings once in a while over time. Today my main "meeting" is what I read on Fidonets, but I still go to alanon here, our alanon meetings average between 15 and 20 people per week, it's a lively group here. Tonight I tried to go to NA and either the meeting no longer exists or else no one else showed up, because there was no one there. I hadn't gone in so long I I don't even know if it's still happening, but the reason I tried to go was that I've been talking about NA a lot in the fido NA group and realize that with more than four years sobriety, I might give back by sharing to newer comers and anyhow I just felt like it... Found myself driving around the island with no meeting, wishing I could have been able to go to a meeting off-island, but can't because there's no ferry late enough to get me home after. Anyhow, I just want to say that being in a city it seems to me it's easier to find this fellowship, simply because there's more people possibly tending... I know from reading that New Yorker article about AA around six months ago that in some big cities the groups are so "sanitized" that anyone who feels like there is some real suffering in his/her life is almost un-welcome, and that some members try to go to real inner city meetings to get a taste of what it was all originally about! In my own experience, some of the best NA meetings I ever went to were in NYC, where there's the possibility of hitting a meeting at any hour of the day or night around the clock. At these meetings, it was real amazing to me to see an organized protocol of greeters who really made you feel welcome. When I've gone to meetings in other places I have always felt immediately welcome, seems that even here, an out of town visitor is always welcomed maybe even more than the people who show up every week because they live here! Anyhow, I don't think it's the meeting's fault or the locality's fault, and that if we have concerns, we should voice them, either one to one or during a group conscience session - which any member of any 12 step program can suggest adding to the agenda... There, there's my suggestion! Anyhow, write me back, take care, and have a great day ! - Y I R - "Shadowcat" --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Alano Club (604)739-1188 (1:153/840) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5P00021 Date: 05/12/96 From: SHADOWCAT Time: 02:32am \/To: TIM DILL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: X-country Trip Hi Tim - I always read your postings, but never wrote to you before. I wasn't really following your "threads" but have perked up now. I used to live in New York, and then I lived in Montreal, and while I lived there I used to go back down to NYC a lot because I still have really good friends there and of course there's no place like it... Now I live all the way west and in a really isolated spot on the B.C. coast up in Canada, but I am always homesick for New York... So I'm really curious as to what you are up to and what took you east and all that. It isn't really "on topic" so if you have time I would be really grateful to a netmail reply to fill me in! Hope you're appreciating being there as much as I would be. If you netmail me I'll tell you more! :) TTYL (?) Shadowcat --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Alano Club (604)739-1188 (1:153/840) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5P00022 Date: 05/11/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 04:32am \/To: TIM DILL (Read 1 times) Subj: X-country Trip On (08 May 96) Tim Dill wrote to Linda Glover... TD> I am here in NYC a week or so early... lost my place to stay last sunday ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not in the least bit surprised! ;-) TD> nite and left cal on monday.... most of my stuff is still in ca... even Are you coming ack for it? ;-) ... Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas. Took the dog... Dorothy --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5Q00000 Date: 05/20/96 From: JUDITH LABONTE Time: 03:58pm \/To: SHADOWCAT (Read 1 times) Subj: about the vamp... and other stories... :15:58:0005/20/96 uh, about confronting that woman, this is almost two years old and I did so at that time; however, there is a saying that says denial is not just a river in egypt, you know? . About folks using al-anon to control and manipulate within the program, I've seen a lot of that too - no just this incident. But then the only one I can change is me and all I can change is myself and my own location in space and cyberspace. . Actually NONE of this alone would have kept me from going to that meeting; however, the fact that I had a drastic schedule change and I can't attend that meeting anymore, but also can't get to any others, well, that seems to be my Higher Power whispering a hint that this is not where I am supposed to be today. . However someone I sponsor sometimes goes to coda and has been bugging me to go along. I was going to another 12 step meeting that night, but it disbanded. So I may take her up on it sometime or another. ,. they say that when the H.P. closes one door S/He always opens another door. I recently heard an AA speaker with about 12 -13 years add this" "But what they don't tell you is this: sometimes you have to wait a while in a long, cold, dark, empty, dreary, lonely corridor for the other door to open". (GRIN) I liked that one. It's real. --- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #66 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury, MA * 508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5Q00001 Date: 05/20/96 From: JUDITH LABONTE Time: 04:00pm \/To: PAT WINSTANLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: multi-program recovery ONE TRUE PATH? I don't THINK so! Where do they get that in the literature? I ain't seen that one in the Big book or the 12 and 12 or anywhere else, myself. (GRIN) --- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #66 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury, MA * 508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5Q00002 Date: 05/20/96 From: JUDITH LABONTE Time: 04:05pm \/To: ANDREW DETTMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Breaking the Rules!!! Hey congrats on your anniversary. I will probably never forget it as I had a close friend in both NA and AA who passed away from AIDS who would have had 7 years on May 15th - so you have a really cool anniversary date, in my opinion. . I guess it's a good day to get sober or something. (GRIN) . I do know if it wasn't for my friend I might not have survived and I almost certainly would not have been sober. He reached out to me in spite of his own misery and helped me a great deal, in some really practical ways - as well as by sharing experience, strength and hope and, on occasion, knocking some sense into my head (metaphorically speaking only). . --- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #66 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury, MA * 508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5Q00003 Date: 05/20/96 From: SHADOWCAT Time: 01:41am \/To: JUDITH LABONTE (Read 1 times) Subj: ACOA Hi Judith.... Shadowcat again.... You were describing acoa/aca as partially being in the alanon family, and then there being a separate fellowship which was closer to AA.... and I need to jump in again.... being as I was part of acoa in quebec and here. There are some alanon meetings that are focussed toward those who are adult children of alcoholics, and these run very similarly to a regular alanon meeting, and there is no 12 step program more closely based on AA or allied with AA other than alanon. The alanon/aca meetings do not differentiate from the alanon format, except that most participants share the bond of having grown up in an alcoholic home. ACOA, on the other hand, is very different from AA. While all 12 step programs are based on AA (there were no 12 step programs before AA) ACOA is an entirely separate fellowship with its own world service organisation and so on. The meetings are hardly similar to AA and alanon, hardly at all. For one thing, one ACOA characteristic we (who qualify) often share, is that no one ever had time for us when we were growing up. At an ACOA meeting we can talk for as long as we need to, and those around the table will listen, without ever interupting, and we give one another this courtesy. Meetings take as long as they take, some 7 p.m. meetings stretching past 11 p.m., and a cardinal rule is that we not cross-talk or interupt one another. There is little or none of the emphasis on "character defects", and we work, instead on honouring our feelings, as a major part of ACOA characteristics is our tendency not to accept, honour or recognize our own needs and feelings. It is a deep complex program, a gentle and welcoming and very safe place to work at exposing the areas we need to heal, and finding the courage to change and grow and work through bitter pains and old hurts. ACOA was an important way station in my multi-program recovery, the place where I learned that I didn't need to be a "vamp" any more (if you remember that discussion!) and worked through a lot of feelings about my parents and childhood. BTW I can see why Andrew Dettman reminds you of Zaynab. I agree :), their words present a similar energy.... Anyhow, take it easy, hope I made things more clear for you.... gee, I keep wanting to reply to your posts to other people, you must think I'm being real pushy. Don't mean it, just keep getting interested in what you say! Have a nice day, m'dear :) ttyl Shadowcat --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Awakening - Lakewood WA (206)582-5579 HST16/V32b/VFC/V34 (1:138/102) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5S00000 Date: 05/21/96 From: HARRIET LEVY Time: 09:50pm \/To: SHARON STEVENS (Read 1 times) Subj: X-COUNTRY TRIP ==> A hush fell over the room when Sharon Stevens said to Tim Dill <== SS> So, are you saying that you have moved to NYC? Or are you there for a SS> visit?? I haven't been paying much attention to this echo.. life has SS> done a real good job of interferring lately.. 8-} Okay, we'll go more public than we've been. Tim has moved in here... in the beginning of May. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- Silver Xpress Mail System 4.00F2 * Origin: Promises BBS, Nashville, TN. (615) 367-4410 (1:116/3000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5S00001 Date: 05/21/96 From: HARRIET LEVY Time: 09:50pm \/To: ED KASKY (Read 1 times) Subj: X-COUNTRY TRIP ==> A hush fell over the room when Ed Kasky said to Tim Dill <== EK> On 08 May 96 18:27 Tim wrote . . . TD> here I will be able to reeply via bluewave.. until then I am still TD> sober but in Brooklyn.. ;-) EK> Does this mean that one can't stay sober in Brooklyn? I mean I know EK> they talk funny and all... Yo!!!! Waddya mean we tawk funny? :-) EK> ps -- How you gonna get your stuff shipped??? I don't think he's figured that out yet. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- Silver Xpress Mail System 4.00F2 * Origin: Promises BBS, Nashville, TN. (615) 367-4410 (1:116/3000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5S00002 Date: 05/22/96 From: SHADOWCAT Time: 12:17am \/To: JUDITH LABONTE (Read 1 times) Subj: about the doors & all... I hear you, sister! I like that one a lot. It is real. That cold, dreary corridor, been there myself. My schedule seems to change whenever I need to find a new meeting. When I moved to this island, I was dealing with my parents for the first time in years on a close level, and I was going to ACOA and NA. Later, I got into the alanon meetings here, and stopped going to the ACOA, which disbanded. These days, the NA is fallen apart, and I have fallen away from alanon, and now there is a new ACOA that is re-formed, and I might soon start going back to it. I have only been going to the alanon now and then. One thing about my job is that it involves my attending public meetings that have to do with community planning and other civil issues, and after several years of recovery-based meetings and stuff, it's interesting to be participating in community issues on a level that has nothing to do with personal problems or individual hejira (there's a cool word!). It seems that I needed to immerse myself in the place to do some intense recovery work for a few years, but now I would like to allow myself some time where I don't need to focus on problems or recovery or program at all mes... Lately I was feeling really good, and I was talking about this with some alanon members, and while this is certainly not true of everyone in recover, it was true of these two individuals: I felt that they were defensive about my feeling good, because they need to feel bad, or they aren't ready to really feel good yet. This is part of my theory about how people sometimes get hooked into needing things to be negative to justify their own "bad" behavior or perpetrate a personal victim myth because so much of their identity has become caught up in "feeling bad" that they become afraid to allow themselves to feel good. The act of really freeing themselves from their problems becomes terrifying, because without the problems (which is a method of getting through the day they've become accustomed to) they can't see any self... I call it "Everything needs to stay wrong so I can feel alright". Ever meet anyone like this? Well me, I like this liberated sense of feeling better nowadays, and hope you are feeling good too. Thanks for writing back. I really enjoy our dialog! TTYL Shadowcat --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Alano Club (604)739-1188 (1:153/840)