--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5200000 Date: 04/30/96 From: RUTH ANNE NELSON Time: 07:55am \/To: RECOVERING FRIENDS (Read 0 times) Subj: Recovery in crisis Hello, everyone. As a newby I feel a little shaky at this, and as a people pleaser I hate it that my first post here is a request for help, but so it goes. I live in Fort Smith, AR and have been in a 12-step program for nine years now. I also work in the recovery field (no booing and hissing, somebody has to). And I would like some help with a little 12th step roject. For those of you who haven't heard, Fort Smith was struck by an extremely ferocious tornado on April 21st. Luckily there was very little loss of life, compared with the overall damage. But hundreds of homes and businesses were destroyed. Many recovering people here are facing weeks and months of cleanup, financial strain, personal grief and crisis coping. Part of my job is sending out a newsletter to people who have been through treatment or other interested friends in the community. I think it is very important to support those in recovery using the language of recovery -- I want to print some material on how to cope with this kind of disaster and stay clean, sober, sane, etc. That's where I'm asking for help. Nothing speaks louder than experience. If anyone would care to share theirs, and strength and hope, too, I'd love to pass it on. Of course, no names. If there are any professional (counsellors, etc., etc.) wh or supporting material, that's great too but please keep it recovery focused. Remember some of these people are babies in recovery. KIS. Thanks for listening, and again, I'm sorry my first post is to ask, rather than share. I'm glad you're all here. :-) --- * Origin: Arkansas Bureau Alcohol & Drug Abuse Prevention Online (1:399/40) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5300000 Date: 05/01/96 From: ESTHER LINDENFELD Time: 11:05pm \/To: JEFF HUNTER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: regarding your discussions... -=> Quoting Jeff Hunter to Esther Lindenfeld <=- JH> Hello Esther, Hi there Jeff, JH> I never thought of that, it seems to me that the discussions on line JH> in some of the nets tends to be more involved with real people and JH> real issues rather than the same old party line one gets at the large JH> meetings. I am speaking of the meetings where eveyone paraphrases JH> whatever is was the chairperson said; smart fella that one, he knows JH> his program, he will stay sober for sure. Harumph.... JH> On line, we each get the same opportunity as anyone else, to tell it JH> like it is; then if someone comes on too strong in rebuttal, there is JH> always the twit filter... LOL... They are more involved, think about it Jeff, there is also no chair- person to tell you that you are cross talking or out of line or your time is up and we have to move on. We can be more ourselves here online. And we are suppose to jump into conversations not avoid them. As well as this in a meeting the person that paraphrases the chairperson you have to listen to here on line you can either twit him out or just pass him by you are not forced to read his message. There are a lot of advantages to online meetings and the only real disadvantage is that you and I can't be friends that see each other and go for coffee after the meetings. So be it though cause the cup is still half full for me. JH> For me, AA is an important tool that I use in my effort to stay sober, JH> to keep from needing to deal with the old desire (or need) to take JH> that first drink. AA does not, nor can it, KEEP me sober, I am sober JH> because I want to be and I use the tools that AA provides to stay that JH> way, be they found on line or in person. I couldn't agree with you more. I am now in a discussion with someone on another Net that thinks because I don't go to meetings that I am a dry drunk, although he said it in a nice way this is what it came down to. He told me that I should have more gratitude for the program and go to meetings cause it is the old timers that kept him sober. Well this is good for him but I personally have always had a lot of gratitude even before program, and I am by no way, shape, or form a dry drunk as far as I know. (now that might not be saying much ) Anyway I don't know why people think that you can't give the program away if your not in meetings or you can't work the tools if you don't do them in meetings. I am not really looking for an answer from you just thinking outload sort of speak. JH> I don't go to meetings anymore, cannot is possibly correct, but then JH> if I could I probably wouldn't... I am disabled, unable to walk more JH> than a little distance and climbing stairs is very difficult, so these JH> on line contacts are an important way for me to stay in touch with the JH> AA or alcoholic community. Well I can go to meetings but don't, mostly because I feel that the fellowship is drastically missing in them, I feel that when I could go to a meeting for over a year and call people and never get one call in return, and when I don't show up for a period of time no one seems to care enough to call and say are you alive or dead what do I need that meeting for. To get so hurt that it makes me want to go out and drink cause I think that I haven't changed at all in the almost 15yrs that I have in and around the rooms. I don't think so. So I stay here on line where there is fellowship (and a hefty phone bill). I am much happier knowing that I have truer friends here than I have ever had in any meeting that I have attended within the last 10 yrs. I find it very sad as well that the selfish part of the program has been taken totally out of context. As a matter of fact the first thing this person said to me was that this is a selfish program and that everyone in the rooms are there for themselves not for you. In my opinion which doesn't mean diddly squat this person and the people like him doesn't know the first thing about the selfish part of the program. I think that people tend to forget about the part of program that says we are responsible to take a reaching hand in our own and help that person. We forget about the part that says we can't keep it unless we give it away, that means reaching out. And mostly we don't think about the fact that the tool of phone calls doesn't mean sit home and wait for the phone to ring. Anyway I am sorry I got on a definate soap box and will shut up for now. Guess I needed to vent. Thanks for being there and listening to me. Well Jeff you take care of yourself and maybe we can talk again. Esther ... Coincidence is the Goddesses way of keeping her anonymity. --- Blue Wave/RA v2.21 [NR] * Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5300001 Date: 05/01/96 From: ESTHER LINDENFELD Time: 11:05pm \/To: JUDITH LABONTE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Hi -=> Quoting Judith Labonte to Esther Lindenfeld <=- JL> Hi Esther! It was good to hear from you in regards to congratulating JL> me on my anniversary and so on. I've had a most interesting day and JL> I'm pretty exhausted, but I did do something nice for myself today for JL> my anniversary. I bought myself a copy of that "footprints" poem that JL> is referred to so much in AA as a bookmark for my step book. Hi there Judith....I am glad to hear that you did something nice for yourself that is important sometimes. I am just begining to learn that too. I force myself to go out and buy me something that I want sometimes just because I deserve it. I have seen them and they are quite nice aren't they? JL> I went to a step meeting today and one person was sharing about how JL> the AA step book stresses rigorous honesty in step 7. I couldn't help JL> but think of the following as a potential tag-line: "Rigorous honesty JL> or rigor mortis, the choise is yours" or something like that. Not a bad tagline at all. Is choise spelled that way on purpose or was a misspelling? If nothing else it is a very true statement, if we don't have honesty we do stagnate wherever it is that we are stuck. Personally I really like the third step prayer and wish that they ould put that on a bookmark or something. You know which one I mean? JL> Yes, I have a warped mind - like your tag-line said, I don't suffer JL> from insanity (either), I enjoy every minute of it. Can I tell that JL> one to my shrink, my husband, my sponsees, and my counselor? Heck you can tell it to anyone you like. I tell people that I am still crazy that hasn't changed at all, the difference is, today I am lovable crazy and before people avoided me like the plague. I wonder why? SMILE. You take care Judith and I will TTYA. Hugs, Esther ... I'm not confused, I'm just well-mixed. --- Blue Wave/RA v2.21 [NR] * Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5300002 Date: 05/01/96 From: ESTHER LINDENFELD Time: 11:05pm \/To: JUDITH LABONTE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: multi-program recovery -=> Quoting Judith Labonte to Esther Lindenfeld <=- JL> Re - remembering abuse - I've noticed that folks who push like heck JL> to remember often can't handle what they bring up through hypnosis or JL> whatever very well. It is my personal belief - and my therapist, who JL> specializes in working with survivors (and perps too, with their JL> sexual addiction) agrees with me on this - that we remember when we are JL> ready to remember, if we do it in a natural way without forcing things JL> to the surface. Anyway, it works better for me that way. Fortunately I am not pushing to remember cause there is a part of me that is scared to death to remember anything else. I do agree with you we do remember when we are ready to, and thats something that my therapist keeps telling me as well. There have been a lot of memories that I am reremembering, does that make sense? Anyway I mean they are stuff that I keep remembering on and off. You are right about it working better that way as well but like you know (I am sure) every addict wanted it yesterday and I am no exception to that rule. I want to wake up tomorrow a size 9 and have no more problems to deal with. Now hows that for a fantasy? I don't think I have ever been a size 9 in my whole life. JL> Re- food addiction - as of NOW, friday, april 26th at 6:23 P M, I have JL> a whole day yesterday and so far today "abstinent". This is really great, keep up the good work. JL> Re-other programs vs. AA and/or NA - in our step 7 meeting today, JL> while reading AA's step book on this step, I got the feeling that the JL> author of the steps felt the ideal way to recover was to get to step 7 JL> and use it with all our other "stuff" besides our primary addiction. I JL> know folks in AA who do this and some in Al-anon. All I can say is it JL> doesn't seem to work for me. I seem to need two programs - one for my JL> own addictions and one for codependency as well as the prior abuse JL> issues. Right now I am working with AA and SIA - I would like to go JL> to Al-anon also, but my schedule just doesn't permit it at this time. I think that when it comes to the Anon programs it is a little different and can see going to two different rooms for that. I know though for me I believe that a drug is a drug is a drug. Now it oesn't matter if that drug is alcohol, pills, foods, caffeine, or nicotine ts all a drug. I was able to quit smoking in my AA program. I was still going to meetings then and I announced my days that I didn't have a cigg. Everytime I wanted one I would stop and remember my last one, equivalent to my last drunk, and then wouldn't want it anymore. This technique still today works for me. I have no desire to pick up smoking again. I went to CODA as well and needed to go to that program in the begining to see what the differences were and how they worked it. It helped me tremendously, I think I would still be in the relationship I was trying to get out of when I went there if it wasn't for them. I do think that similar addictions can use one or more programs to stay away from them. I came into AA through the back door of OA and I never did have a seperate sponsor I used the same sponsor for both. The only program that I found to be totally different is GA (gamblers Anonymous) and I won't get into that other than to say that I wrote their intergroup a very long letter telling them that they should be ashamed of themselves using the Anonymous name. Anyways it was nice to hear from you again and keep in touch. Hugs, Esther ... Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. --- Blue Wave/RA v2.21 [NR] * Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5300003 Date: 05/01/96 From: ESTHER LINDENFELD Time: 11:05pm \/To: PAT WINSTANLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: cravings??? -=> Quoting Pat Winstanley to Mary Beth Parisi <=- PW> Hi Mary, PW> Friday April 19 1996 14:44, Mary Beth Parisi wrote to Pat Winstanley: Hi Pat, PW> Help please, chaps and chapesses! I've more or less stayed sober (in PW> the sense of just social drinking) for the last couple of years while PW> at college, but now I'm diving into the slough of despond again, PW> seeing myself doing it, knowing it's stupid, but can't see another way PW> of killing the pain... Sometimes we only think that we are killing the pain but in truth we are procrastinating it, not killing it. And the funny thing about it is that when we do this it comes back even harder. The best way that I found to kill the pain is the walk through it. There is a saying that I made up in my early sobriety many 24's ago and that is that the things I resist are the things that persist, so if I really want to get rid of the pain I embrace it and hug it till it goes away. PW> Help!! Hope this helps you some. Esther ... Being normal isn't one of my strengths. --- Blue Wave/RA v2.21 [NR] * Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5300004 Date: 04/27/96 From: SOBER SWEDE Time: 11:59pm \/To: WES FITZSIMMONS (Read 0 times) Subj: New Prespectives Hi Wes, -=> Quoting Wes Fitzsimmons to Sober Swede <=- WF> Things are real good for the most part, I'm fightin a migrane today WF> but all in all things are well. A friend of mine has migraines and she really suffers. Sorry to hear you do too. WF> Days like today, I don't have much choice. Taking the meds is the WF> only thing that keeps me from too much pain. I've been using the codeine tablets every night. I take one before I go to bed. I figure if I get some sleep I can lick most anything the next day. Soon I won't need those either. I got a bit depressed after this surgery 'caus it's taking a longer time to heal than I thought it should. Impatience is the enemy here. But, I'm enjoying the time off work and making good use of the time. I can't do a lot of heavy work around the house like I want but I'm learning some new things on the computer and that will be a big help to me getting my next job. The more I know the easier it'll be on the next assignment. WF> The only noticable side effect of the meds is they sometimes make me WF> tired. A blessing when the pains too much. Sleep...the big healer. And you don't think about the pain when you sleep. WF> You could always start. Try making a brash statement without all the WF> pertinant data. I've done that more times than I'd like to remember. At least drunk I ha an excuse. Sober? I guess it's just foolish but can be fun sometimes. :) I think it gives people a chance to laugh with you and they know you're fallible..just like they are. That works too. Andrea ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 * Origin: The Rochester Exchange 716-359-9468 Rochester NY (1:2613/203.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5300005 Date: 05/01/96 From: RAIN Time: 02:11pm \/To: JOAN REA (Read 0 times) Subj: Day by Day -> Just read another of your posts and thanked God again that nobody thr -> out when you came so that you are here for so many of us. Your const -> loving helpfulness is what recovery programs should be. If I ever ge -> kindly as you, WoW but, I'm getting better as fast as God wants me -> to and as fast as I can considering where I came from. A lot of my -> recovery comes from folks like you. God Bless (then again I'm sure -> he has) Joan Joan, I can't tell you how touched I was by this. I am in the middle of a disability reinvestigation that is precision-designed to make the client feel (a.) societally useless and (b.) societally useless. Getting this from you was a tremendous day-brightener and I really, truly appreciate it. (And if you think I'm kindly all the time, you haven't cut me off in traffic lately. ) --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 * Origin: Louisville Hot House (1:2320/180.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5300006 Date: 05/01/96 From: BILL FORSETH Time: 01:34pm \/To: TREE WALSH (Read 0 times) Subj: PROCESS Hi - sent that message out quite a while ago, and thought it never made it. Glad you replied. BF> For the sake of discussion which part of the 12 step framework BF> do you think doesn't work for everyone? There's surrender, BF> confidential admission of wrongs, restitution, ongoing BF> maintainence ... these are simply things that have universally BF> recognized as stepping stones to a new life by all kinds of BF> people with all kinds of problems throughout the ages. The only BF> thing that AA added to it is the one drunk helping another BF> slant. TW> In stating that the 12 step framework doesn't necessarily work for TW> everyone I was speaking from my experience and what has been shared TW> with me at recovery meetings. Yes, a poor choice of words on my part (the "everyone" statement). Bill Wilson addressed this very thing in later years. A whole lot of people get sober through AA. But a whole lot of people don't--some (but not all) can be attributed to "not ready". Others find the disorganization in AA difficult to deal with, and some feel the apparent inflexibility and rhetoric to be a turn-off. TW> The framework, to me, is how the program is structured, the language TW> used and the tendancy to dogmatism. These are the sticking points for TW> me, therefore 12 step meetings/programs are not a big part of my TW> recovery. When I was newly sober we had a saying: sober through the fellowship of AA--and sometimes in spite of it. I'm an agnostic. I've had difficulty with some of the God stuff almost from the beginning, and sometimes it has alienated me from fellow AA members who, seemingly, demanded that I listen to them--but would not hear me out. These days I tend to keep quiet about that aspect of my sobriety in meetings (not always successfully, I admit). After a whole lot of wandering and meeting hopping I've found meetings where I'm comfortable at. It may just be that I'm now (thank whatever) mature enough to accept where others are at without feeling threatened by them, without feeling that I'm about to be sucked into mimicing attitudes that I find untennable. I've found too that, no matter what the failings of individual members may be, I do better with meetings than I do without them. This I have learned the hard way. But, I repeat: the basic principles of AA are sound, and some members practice them surprisingly well. By missing meetings I miss contact with these people, and in so doing deny myself a chance to learn from them. But, I respect you for sticking to your guns, Tree, and it may be that by sharing where you're at you help others who are in the same place, but are afraid to speak out. There's room for all kinds of beliefs and practices in sobriety, and no sane alcoholic would demand that others walk their exact path. --- FastEcho v1.45a * Origin: -=Information Central=- Superior, Wi 715 398 7143 (1:282/76) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D5300007 Date: 05/01/96 From: TIM DILL Time: 09:50am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: May rules You may see dupes of this, maybe not... I posted this on another system two days ago and have not seen mail in two days soooo.. Here they are again.... I am posting these early because in about two weeks My 'puter goes in a box and get's shipped east.... ------------------=========================------------------------ RECOVERY ECHOMAIL CONFERENCE - FidoNet -- Status: RECOVERY is a moderated conference carried on the FidoNet Backbone. RECOVERY is an "open forum" type conversational conference for the discussion of topics related to addictions and recovery from them; also, announcements of RECOVERY related gatherings (conferences, workshops, speaker meetings, etc.) are in order. [The above paragraph does not really LIMIT the topics SINCE we ALL drank or used (or whatever word you choose) over anything and every- thing at one time or another.] RECOVERY is for those involved in the various "12 Step" recovery programs, as well as for those WHO ARE not involved in a recovery program but WHO HAVE a desire to deal with recovery from THEIR additive BEHAVIOR AND ARE INTERESTED IN CONVERSING WITH THOSE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN 12 STEP PROGRAMS. This includes AA, NA, Al-Anon, OA, EA, SLAA and many other such 12-step-BASED groups. -- Rules: Darned few! Promotion of "commercial ventures" such as treatment facilities or clinics is not in order. General rules of social conduct are always in order. Repeated "abusive/annoying" messages * may draw comment from the moderator or be brought to the attention * of the Moderator by other conference participants. * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NOTE: As RECOVERY is not a part of or affiliated with _ANY_ recovery program, attempting to impose traditions, membership requirements, etc. of any specific program is out of order. To SysOps: Please refrain from posting "test" messages in this conference. The additional traffic of tests and the resulting replies is not desirable. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ** It is OK to give a [business not another members] address or telephone number in response to a direct request from a co-user of the echo, without further comment (no price listing or list of items etc). Rich Ward, 102/749.7 Tim Dill 102/749.2, 116/3000.13 Moderator Asst. Moderator frrichward@aol.com aj727@lafn.org Just in passing:- These statements, used to guide SysOps, might well be mentioned here for all callers to note. 1.) You shall not be excessively ANNOYING. 2.) You shall not be too easily ANNOYED. Tim Dill Asst Moderator Recovery Echo --- PPoint 2.00 * Origin: Trudging the road in Torrance Ca. (1:116/3000.13)