--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4A00003 Date: 04/03/96 From: SHARON STEVENS Time: 10:14am \/To: MATRIKA (Read 0 times) Subj: Feedback? In a note to all, you said... MA>phone no. to anyone -even her Higher Power - without asking me first. MA>Today she was talking to her mom when she heard my voice in the MA>background - turns out her mom is my downstairs neighbor, who I am MA>friendly with. So she breaks my anonymity and tells her mom I am her MA>AA sponsor, then gives her mom my PHONE no. [...] MA>I don't appreciate this, but I don't know how firm to be. The young MA>lady is not as stupid as she sometimes acts and as she thinks she is, [...] MA>I am trying to decide whether to continue sponsoring her or not. MA>If anyone has any personal experience with a situation like this, I MA>could sure use the feedback right now and thanks a lot. I have had something a BIT similar happen.. A girl asked me to be her sponsor, and I said I would... then she was constantly at my door or on the phone with any number of daily/hourly crises... what finally tore it was I had a display of 'wares' at a local flea market.. she happened across me and starting talking about all sorts of things that should have only been discussed in a private meeting... I asked her to please stop as others could overhear us, and still she continued blabbing on. So, not only was she breaking MY anonimity, she was putting everyone else in jeopardy by mentioning names and situations. I finally had to just be blunt and tell her that she needed to be quiet. That was she was discussing was NOT something for the general public to be hearing. She heard what I said and still continued. I got busy with something else and she finally walked away. I brought it up in our next meeting with everyone, and told her in front of the group just exactly why I felt that I could no longer be here sponsor. If she couldn't respect my anonimity, nor have any respect for anyone else in the group, then I could not comfortable have anything to do with her. Course.. the rest of the group got into quite a fuss when they heard that THERE anonimity had also been compromised... BUT... I had no control over how they reacted... 8-} and react they did... But... back to your situation... I would say that you have every right in the world to tell her to hit the road... that you don't feel comfortable being her sponsor when she obviously did not respect your wishes that your phone number not be given out... And.. don't feel guilty that you are turning your back on her or her recovery.. she is a big girl.. quite capable of finding someone else. my two cents worth anyways... 8-} Good Luck... this is a hard spot to be in... Chow chow chow................for now..............Sharon Stevens. * SLMR 2.1a * Astronomers do it in the dark... --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: It works, if you let it - Quesnel, B.C. Canada (1:3404/160) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4B00000 Date: 04/06/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 05:41am \/To: UNCLE FESTER2 (Read 0 times) Subj: Your origin line On (04 Apr 96) Uncle Fester2 wrote to Judith Labonte... -> * Origin: Dreamer's Lot BBS * Shrewsbury * Ma * UF> I saw your origin line and it brought back memories of where I got ober. UF> I got sober (Sept.30, 1990) at the Grafton, easy does it group. - Do you When I saw "Grafton" I thought of the state hospital. Before my alcoholism, in the early '60s, became a problem to ME I often sobered up in Foxboro State Hospital. Seemed that my alcoholism was a problem for my friends and familiy before it was to me. UF> * Origin: Stephenie's House.717-639-2474 Megs of Celebrity GIFs Lived in Millis and eastern MA area til I was 30[ish], then a geographic up through nortern New England and New York State. Spent the last 5 or 6 years of my drinking living on the streets of the Bowery, lower east side of NYC. ... Natural laws have no pity. L. Long --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4B00001 Date: 04/06/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 05:57am \/To: ANDREW DETTMAN (Read 0 times) Subj: Day by Day On (04 Apr 96) Andrew Dettman wrote to David Goyette... AD> In my understanding, the steps follow on one from another and therefore AD> cannot be compared in the wording unless and until they are in place in AD> the proper order. For me, I know that my programme must be *built* in me AD> I realise that my AD> RECOVERY will not start until my Step 8 is in place; God as I grow to As I read your message I began to wonder whatever happened to the "Simple Program for Complicated People". ;-) ... A hug warms the soul and places a smile in the heart. --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4B00002 Date: 04/06/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 06:06am \/To: DOCTOR (Read 0 times) Subj: Feedback? On (03 Apr 96) Doctor wrote to MATRIKA... D > >I am trying to decide whether to continue sponsoring her or not. D > >If anyone has any personal experience with a situation like this, I D > >could sure use the feedback right now and thanks a lot. D > That happened to me a few times and I found that reminding her would be D > best I was told never to fire anyone I sponsor usually they drift away D > on there own if they don't want the program... as for the mom if she Isn't that the truth? D > calls about her spouse give her the number to al anon and politely tell ... If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried. --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4B00003 Date: 04/05/96 From: SOBER SWEDE Time: 12:14pm \/To: RAIN (Read 0 times) Subj: Day by Day Hi Rain, How are you? Good to see you here. -=> Quoting Rain to David Goyette <=- Ra> Take a deep breath, my friend. You're still a miracle any day you Ra> don't pick up a bottle, and no thought, feeling, or behavioral glitch Ra> you may go through in the process of being human and having our disease Ra> negates that. And a few days of craving don't negate all those years Ra> without it. You just hit a pocket. There have been several times in the past couple of years that have hit me hard. One of the major things for me is that I wasn't out in the world before then, I stayed at home. There weren't any "real" chanllenges to my not drinkin at that time. Now I'm working at a major company, living and working around drinkers, and that temptation is all around me. I've had to relearn, had to rethink, and had to renew all my vows to myself that I would remain sober. No matter what! One of the teams I worked with had lunches many times together. I was late one time and when I sat down at the table (they had saved one seat for me) there was a glass of beer poured for me. OOOOHHHH did that look good. Salivation is going.....I can taste that nice, cold beer going down my throat. I gave the glass to my friend next to me and ordered my glass of club soda with lemon. I just had my 11th surgery for a problem and a friend asked me why I haven't gone back to drinking to help myself over this. I laughed and said, " This is hell enough to get thru'. Can you imagine trying to handle all this and a hangover too?" It would have been nice to be able to use to dull my senses but then I would have missed a lot too. Pain is relative and can be dealt with, bu the pain of failure is much worse. And I would have failed miserably if I had gone back to the old way of NOT facing things and NOT dealing with life. Life keeps moving along, changes come and go, challenges rear their heads an dealing sober is better. we all know that. Doing it is a constant challenge adn each time we make it we are stronger for having made it thru'. The next on probably won't be as bad because we know we can make it. Or so they say..... :) The sun is out today. We're going to have a snowy Easter here in Rochester. Does the Easter bunny leave tracks? I wonder. [[[[A BIG HUG]]] Andrea ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 * Origin: The Rochester Exchange 716-359-9468 Rochester NY (1:2613/203.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4B00004 Date: 04/05/96 From: SOBER SWEDE Time: 12:15pm \/To: JUDITH LABONTE (Read 0 times) Subj: Hi Hi Judith, -=> Quoting Judith Labonte to Dennis Lalumiere <=- JL> Hi, I'm a forty year old, married alcoholic and addict, recovering and JL> trying to stay sane in Central MA - coming up on nine years of JL> Sobriety on April 18th. C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S!!!!!! 9 years is a long time and can be sooo short at the same time. I look back and it seems like yesterday but a lot of time and healing goes on. Happy Birthday... :) Andrea ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 * Origin: The Rochester Exchange 716-359-9468 Rochester NY (1:2613/203.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4C00000 Date: 04/04/96 From: ANDREW DETTMAN Time: 04:23pm \/To: TAMMY WILSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Thanks ~ Hello Tammy Wilson, keep coming back... Sunday, 31 March 1996 19:33:22, Tammy Wilson wrote to Andrew Dettman Subject: Any body there? -=>> Andrew Dettman was screaming at All about Any body there? <=- AD>> Just to see if these messages are getting through :-) TW> Loud and clear in New Westminster, B.C. Thanks for taking the trouble to reply; I am writing from Hull in Yorkshire, UK. I think that there is a Hull in Ontario too - that's Canada isn't it, Geography's not too strong in me! - That's just what we could do with here in the UK, a *new Westminster*, don't want to be controversial, but UK needs a Recovery Programme too! My recovery goes on thank God: 6 and 7 are being put in place by the God of my understanding....bit like having my soul in plaster at the moment, but it's getting better! Speak with you again I hope. Best wishes, Andrew. .!. Ghosts are merely unsubstantiated roomers. --- Terminate 3.00 * Origin: A Bus Stop: a stationary Point for moving..... (2:2502/28.4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4C00001 Date: 04/04/96 From: ANDREW DETTMAN Time: 04:32pm \/To: PAT WINSTANLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Day by Day ~ Hello Pat Winstanley, keep coming back... Monday, 1 April 1996 16:45:40, Pat Winstanley wrote to Wes Fitzsimmons Subject: Re: Day by Day PW> Sunday March 31 1996 17:14, Wes Fitzsimmons wrote to David PW> Goyette: WF>> The book I have only promises that I don't have to use WF>> again. Doesn't say anything about me not being able to use again. WF>> Step 11 finishes with "... praying only for knowledge of his will WF>> for us, and the power to carry that PW> How does one know what the HP is telling them ... what the PW> 'will' is? I mean, in 'real' life there is the spoken aloud PW> conversation, the telephone, the letter, the e-mail... what is PW> there as a response mechanism in prayer? In my understanding, 'will' is always to do with the 'future' - as a verb rather than a supposed 'thing' which I possess or not. So whenever I use the verb I always try to remember that it is up to the Whole whether or not the configuration which I try to say will happen 'will' actually be possible. This frees me from resentment and 'overcooking' the effort if it soon transpires that what I say will happen is in fact impossible for the time being - but it reminds me that I have to be able to make an effort if anything is to happen in my future which will be seen to be in line with the 'promises' inherently realisable by my honestly working the 12 Steps. This in fact is what the Serenity Prayer says to me and thus Wisdom translates to what I have understood above as *double you is-dom*. Or in other words I remember that there is my head, my growing understanding of my Godhead which is reflected in the *double you - W*, this remembrance is connected to the is-dom which is like king-dom but to do with the Majesty of the moment in time rather than the pomp and circumstance of material royalty. The response mechanism of my prayer is that the word prayer means the *thing* which is prayed and the one or *pray-er* who is doing the praying, maybe even eventually clarifying That towards Which the prayer is directed.....God knows, but the prayer and the pray-er eventually become the same thing with practice.......so, beware of your prayers!!!!! :-) WF>> out." Not sure why, but it goes against the grain of Step WF>> 7's "Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings." PW> Why? How do you see the two joining together, or one following PW> from the other, (or not)? My understanding of this allows me to see that the wording is not one of destroying character defects and shortcomings, but rather of removing them. Thus what is defective in us and causal of shortcomings in one mode, might in fact be transformable to be able to work more appropriately in another mode if it is removed by a competent Removal Service.....bit like the story of Beauty and the Beast. Our responses change when defects are allowed to revert to *default settings* and a new programme introduced to more adequately handle the workload!! :-) Then the settings can be customised to our personal and understandable requirements........... Hope I haven't stretched the computer analogy TOOOOO far!!!!! PW> Probably! :-) Ah well..... Best wishes, Andrew. .!. For discussion only. Not to be relied upon. --- Terminate 3.00 * Origin: A Point of shelter, waiting at a Bus Stop..... (2:2502/28.4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4C00002 Date: 04/04/96 From: ANDREW DETTMAN Time: 05:05pm \/To: MATRIKA (Read 0 times) Subj: Anonymity. ~ Hello Matrika , keep coming back... Monday, 1 April 1996 17:40:00, Matrika wrote to All Subject: Feedback? M> recently started sponsoring another young woman with a life very M> similar to mine So you will understand how she went against your wishes. M> So she breaks my anonymity and tells her mom I am her AA sponsor Initially Anonymity was held to be vital at the level of the Press, Commercial Areas and all publicity to do with A.A.. This principle has been extended way beyond its original intention to be the bone of controversy and contention in many groups throughout the World - thus actually damaging the Unity of the Fellowship for those of us involved in 12 Step Work in A.A or indeed any Fellowship which has implemented our original Programme. What would a Loving, Caring God of your own understanding say about this? Your sponsee broke her word, her breaking of 'her' word does not break 'your' word.....'you' said that you would be her sponsor. Is her weakness to be allowed to break your strength or is her strength in her weakness as The Man in the Big Big Book hinted.... 'in my weakness is my strength...' M> Now my husband had specifically told me that he did not want me to M> give her the number because her husband is chronic alcoholic and has M> drank so long that he may even have brain damage. Are you working your programme for you or for your husband? M> I have worked in the field) As a result the family has constant M> "crises" that are really much ado about nothing. He doesn't want M> to be involved and specifically told me not to give out the number M> to them. Now what do I do? I have left a message on her answering M> machine saying I don't appreciate this, but I don't know how firm to M> be. If your husband does not want to be bothered by this family and if they are bothering him directly, he sorts his own problem out. If this family are bothering you, you tell those members of that family to stop it. You are only sponsoring one member of that family and this one member is the only one you need ever be in contact with; it does not matter that they all know as a family that you SPONSOR one of their own. What does matter is that the situation is made clear to your sponsee and to the other members of her family. Then you can be free to make a decision upon their response to your clarifications and your sponsee's acceptance that she more closely follows your suggestions at least until she has completed her 12 Steps. Best wishes, Andrew. .!. Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature. --- Terminate 3.00 * Origin: From the Point of waiting at a Bus Stop..... (2:2502/28.4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D4C00003 Date: 04/07/96 From: ED MADARA Time: 10:41am \/To: ALL WITH INTEREST (Read 0 times) Subj: mutual help gp database There are well over a hundred different 12-step and anonymous groups that exist across the country. If you are looking for any of these, there is an online database. Our American Self-Help Clearinghouse, which has published five editions of our "Self-Help Sourcebook" over the last 11 years, has now placed that database of mutual help groups online at a Web site . The location is: http://www.cmhc.com/selfhelp/ At this site, people can use a key word search engine to learn about any of over 700 other national and model self-help support groups that include groups for illnesses, disabilities, addictions, bereavement situations, and many other stressful life problems. Please note that the index there is only a small fraction of the groups reflected. The site also has other sections providing information on self-help clearinghouses worldwide, national U.S. 800 numbers, self-help group resources, samples of group research, quotes reflecting the value of mutual help groups, suggestions for starting community and/or online groups, and a registry for those interested in starting needed new national/international support networks that currently do not exist on the planet. If you don't have Internet access, you can still call us for information at 201-625-7101 any weekday (if you are in NJ, you can reach us toll-free at 800-367-6274). - ed at the American & NJ Self-Help Clearinghouses, Northwest Covenant Medical Center Denville, NJ 07834-2995 (ASHC@bc.cybernex.net) --- Maximus/2 3.00 * Origin: BLACK BAG BBS <*> Collegeville, PA <*> (610) 454-7396 (1:2614/706)