--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00000 Date: 03/12/96 From: RAIN Time: 01:20pm \/To: CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK (Read 0 times) Subj: birthday -> Today - March 9 1996 - by the Grace of God & the fellowship of AA, -> I am celebrating 8 years (3/9/88). It's worth it. It sure is. Congratulations, Christian, and keep comin' back. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 * Origin: Louisville Hot House (1:2320/180.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00001 Date: 03/12/96 From: RAIN Time: 01:29pm \/To: BILLY O (Read 0 times) Subj: QUESTION? -> Nobody taught me directly, but they did blame me daily. I grew up -> knowing that I made my gods have feelings, and that I was gonna -> have to pay for that power. ROFLMAO!!! That's just about as well as I've ever heard it put. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 * Origin: Louisville Hot House (1:2320/180.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00002 Date: 03/12/96 From: SHARON STEVENS Time: 09:23am \/To: TIM DILL (Read 0 times) Subj: Favour please In a note to me, you said... TD> SS> I was digging through my cassettes the other day when my oldest kid TD> SS> was over (who is, I'm very proud to say, almost 8 months clean AND TD> SS> sober) TD>That's good to hear, especially from what little you said here about that. TD>So when is this son of yours going to be online? 8-} I doubt that will happen for a good long while... he is completely intimidated by these things... computers in general... I have him playing a few games on my computer when he comes over, and he took a little tiny bit of a few lessons from someone else... but in general, he doesn't feel real comfortable... yet! 8-} TD> Brought back memories did it? I last had a bout of that sort over in German TD> in a public park with the "Polizei" watching out every move. It's so damned TD> good not to relive that again ;-) Well, it sure ain't my type of music, but he got a real kick out of it.. and told me twice to make sure I said thank you for it... 8-} TD> Thom's here, just does not post much, too busy with his latest band... Well, if you're listening in Thom, thank you from my son for your tape! TD> SS> 8-} hehehe... Course, he's no kid... will be 25 this summer.. 8-} TD> Far from being a kid and getting sober at that age? Beat me by almost our TD> years.... But, at least you 'got it'... it doesn't matter what age we get smart, as long as we GET smart.. 8-} Chow chow chow................for now..............Sharon Stevens. * SLMR 2.1a * Transvestite: A man who wants to eat, drink and be Mary. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: It works, if you let it - Quesnel, B.C. Canada (1:3404/160) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00003 Date: 03/12/96 From: WES FITZSIMMONS Time: 09:49pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: It's been a L O N G time! Pat Winstanley said something about QUESTION? to Harriet Levy, and I couldn't resist.. PW> Tuesday March 05 1996 07:27, HARRIET LEVY wrote to BILLY O: Sometime's time stands still, but waiting for Fido to come home took forever and then some. It's been 2 hurricanes and a HD crash, weeks without power and phones, but Spinnaker BBS is back on line and so am I. So, anybody out there want to talk to the US VI? BTW, MISSED ALL OF YA!!!!! (Note, let me know if I'm sending in the right area) Write back soon!, Wes Fitzsimmons FIDO NET 1:18/24 Spinnaker BBS STT INTERNET ac006@virgin.usvi.net --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: SPINNAKER BBS (1:18/24.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00004 Date: 03/13/96 From: ALEXANDER Time: 01:03am \/To: TIM DILL (Read 0 times) Subj: MARCH Rules Mmmm!....Seems we have a bit of confusion here. I've been scanning through the messages and I see numerous reminders from the Moderator (Richard), stating that this is an A.A. based Conference and, as such, all efforts should be made to refrain violating the A.A. guidelines (i.e.- no pyschology, no self-help suggestions, no nutritional guidelines, etc., etc.). Now, I read a message from the Co-Moderator, outlining the rules for the Conference. Unfortunately, these rules seem to be somewhat at odds with Richard's definition of what can or can't be posted. Specifically, I see mention that there should be NO attempt to censure postings simply because they do not conform to the guidelines established by one group (in this case, A.A.). The only stipulation is that the message writer must either be in a 12 step program or, he/she must wish to converse with people who are in a 12 step program. I, for one, participated in a 12 step based rehabilitation program that loosely conformed to the guiding principles of A.A. but, that also tried to enlighten me as to the behaviour patterns and personality shortcomings that contribute to my addiction. While I have nothing but praise for A.A., I also have an appreciation of the need to explore hte psychological factors governing my addiction and, as such, I believe it is a disservice to the people using this forum, if only A.A. approved discussions are allowed. I fully understand that I will always be an addict...there is no miracle cure. My goal is to lessen my chances of relapse by utilizng whatever means I find effective. --- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #53 * Origin: FIDOnet-=Insomnia BBS=- Sarnia, On (519)336-9359 (1:246/7.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00005 Date: 03/12/96 From: TIM DILL Time: 07:44am \/To: ED KASKY (Read 0 times) Subj: QUESTION? Ed, you are making it past 102/749.... Mind the origin line Tim.. ... This is more exciting than Woody Allen on Valium. --- PPoint 2.00 * Origin: Trudging the road in Torrance Ca. (1:116/3000.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00006 Date: 03/12/96 From: MARGE CLARK Time: 08:33am \/To: BILLY O (Read 0 times) Subj: Alcologic I thought I heard Billy O (1:102/749) say: ->> No. There is no "and shut up" anywhere in that. Just a reminder ->> kinda thing. I'm not in the "and shut up" business. That happens ->> all on it's own, usually, eventually. nonononono. that's the... okay. I have (still) a *lot* of trouble accepting compliments, or praise...always need to duck and dodge out of 'em. and I was taught, a long time ago, that the correct reply is "thank you and shut up" as opposed to 'no, you don't understand, I didn't really do that neat thing that you just said you appreciated because... etc.' ->> I'm in a relationship with someone who maybe could possibly ->> benefit from Al-anon or Coda, maybe. The difference is she seems ->> to be open to changing her perspective and reaction patterns when ->> positive reflection happens. my word! maybe she doesn't need the programs after all. you mean...she's willing to CHANGE? oooooh. ->> Not to say that she is malleable. Nope. unh-unh. But she comes ->> from dysfunction. But, she is the most willing person I'v ever ->> met when it comes to owning her own stuff. how very neat. wondering if she has a 'structure' to help her find and own it? the steps, therapy, whatever. ->> and she melts me with her smile. Like, butter in the sun kinda ->> stuff. Blows my mind how all my years of armor and defensiveness ->> and agro-expectations can be rendered not so much gone as ->> completely unneccessary. By a facial movement. how very neat to read, coming from you, my friend. thanks for sharing that. very *very* good feelings coming from you. ->> Well, not just a smile, it's the intent behind it too. well, yes. and that shows in her eyes? ->> She's done alot of yoga, and has internalized it. That gives her ->> a certian place of balance to return to when we are "discussing" ->> things. ah...yes. I only could find that thru Alanon. ->> If I took one of my offers and took possession of ten brand new ->> pedal trucks....... I still wouldn't be in competition with him ->> because I am the driving factor with his company. Where I go, the ->> talent and the troops go. ->> The bummer is, he is the kinda guy who would throw roofing nails ->> and broken glass on the roads around my shop and would hire people ->> to have accidents on my bikes. not pleasant to deal with. ->> And then I would have to do some serious stuff in order to avoid ->> becoming the person I used to be. His idea of "competition" and ->> how to deal with it is pretty annoying. My idea of it gets too ->> chilling for words, quickly. ->> It's not him I fear in that scenario. It's me. yes. I hear you. ->> did when I was growing up under my father, or, an opportunity to ->> do now what I didn't have the power to do then. ->> Lots of fear. Taking lots of breaks for breathing, working out, ->> praying for clarity and guidance and power to do the right thing. ->> and when that fails, I abuse my body with toxic amounts of ->> espresso and pastries. yep. a yadgo, if you choose it. having the courage to choose it and walk thru it... all sorts of gifts at the end. but scary as hell on THIS end, and, I suspect, during. ->> I've got a friend who will lend me about 30k to buy this ferengi ->> out of the picture. That brings up fears of harming a friend thru ->> my ignorance or flakiness. Logically, an urealistic fear. But ->> try telling that to my gut. urgh. once again, the difference btwn knowing in your head and in your heart. all the 'not good enoughs' ???? ->> Program buddies, the ones who have the experience to share in this ->> kind of deal, are all very supportive and sometimes that helps, ->> sometimes it just triggers a shame attack. because they've had the experience and where were YOU when they were getting it? ->> I've got to learn about stuff I've always avoided. I've got to ->> learn stuff that my mind just goes completely blank around. Tax ->> laws, workman's comp stuff, corporate structure and legal wording, ->> all that kind of stuff. hate it. just really hate it. get ->> headaches reading legal contracts. yep. keeping the focus on that stuff is hard for me. gotta grow in another direction, one that you wouldn't have chosen? (and don't know if you can???) ->> But, if i want the gig, I gotta keep pushing thru. The trick is ->> to "allow" it to happen instead of "pushing it" to happen. I've ->> got it in my reality that this is a good thing. and I've got it ->> that I need to allow it to come thru me. When I get real deep ->> into meditation on this, that's the kind of message Iget. And ->> that is the message I've gotten from having Tarot readings and ->> from doing undirected stream of consciousness "let the fingers do ->> the talking" exercises I do on the word processor. so all you need to do is let yourself walk thru it. something a sponsee of mine used to say, when trying to decide if a specific course of action was god's will for him.... don't lie and don't say no. if it's supposed to happen, it will. ->> So, it's a go. And as usual, the only thing slowing me down is my ->> fear of doing something I'm not already good at. Fears of ->> screwing up and harming others. Just fears. Reasonable cautions ->> taken to unreasonable effect. oh dear. oh YES. if i can't do it poifictly, then I mustn't do it. ->> But I'm here. and I'm doing it. And it's mostly okay. absolutely wonderful reading, Billy. thank you. thank you for letting me see life on life's terms for billy, today. () --- msged 2.06 * Origin: Promises BBS, Nashville, TN (615)367-4410 (1:116/3000.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00007 Date: 03/12/96 From: MARGE CLARK Time: 09:25am \/To: BILLY O (Read 0 times) Subj: Question? I thought I heard Billy O (1:102/749) say: MC> of course it helps, Billy. that's common sense, I think. but, you ->> It's not common sense around the rooms I've been in. maybe it's that girls are raised different. we learn stuff about food groups, and vitamins, and stuff like that. (don't always practice it, but know it ;-) ->> It's my thing that proper nutrition and exercise doesn't remove ->> the need to do the steps or work a program..... it just makes it ->> a little less neccessary. ->> When the body is in balance and properly maintained, it's a lot ->> less inclined to addict behaviors. well, yeah. back to HALT, actually. taking care of the physical needs of the body. and the right food, or meds, or rest, or whatever are all parts of that. ->> When I'm not eating right, my body goes into "fight or flight" and ->> then my mind looks around at my environment to find a cause for ->> that feeling of free floating anxiety. That's how I create ->> mountians out of molehills. ->> I'm getting lots of that lately, with the stresses of taking over ->> this company and being majorly responsible for ten other people ->> being able to pay their rent and have grocery money. ->> When, not if, but when I don't work out regularly and with proper ->> attitude, when I don't fuel my body correctly, when I don't ->> spend enough time in the link with my Source, when I don't spend ->> enough time with my peer group, I get twisted up in my thinking ->> and all kinds of negative behaviors become not only attractive, ->> but damn near unstoppable. yeah. back to it's our responsibility to take care of US? I/me...whatever. ->> It's still amazing to me just how many panic attacks or rage runs ->> or ..... sex trips can be tuned out by eating a banana and ->> chatting with some recovery person. Ah-may-zing. ;-) ->> And this kind of knowing is not a major topic of discussion in the ->> 12 step rooms. Seems like most people are still struggling to ->> look good without having trouble with it, or are on some kind of ->> jihad against improper language or tradition adhearance, or are ->> struggling to get "good" enough to be in grace. well, is wanting the results w/out doing the work foreign to our natures? (had a sponsee accuse me of that yesterday...nervy child that she is!) ->> I just wanna express my sadness at ->> the heavily reactive nature of the situation. mmmmmmmmm. thank you. and, since I'm one of the reactive ones, I'll TRY to hit the next key more often. hard for me to do...to remain a noncombatant, sometimes. ->> Oh yeah. girlfriend person has all these little bottles full of ->> wierdo scent stuff we put in the tub. And yeah, they do have ->> powerfull effects. for reals. yeah. both physical/emotional/mental. all three. wonderful for helping to find a balance. at any rate, Billy....watching you walk thru all this is gonna be a gift for me. hope you know that. () --- msged 2.06 * Origin: Promises BBS, Nashville, TN (615)367-4410 (1:116/3000.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00008 Date: 03/12/96 From: MARGE CLARK Time: 09:44am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Question? I thought I heard Jane Kelley (1:138/155@fidonet) say: ->>A.A. provides spiritual help. It doesn't provide everything that ->>someone in recovery needs. Neither does any one doctor, or counselor, ->>or any other health care professional, which is why we professionals ->>work in teams. Jane, I don't recall anyone here saying that AA does provide everything that a person needs. What it does provide is a proven way to stop drinking and to grow, spiritually. the real big difference, I think, btwn your perspective and that of most of us here, is that the rest of us are here sharing our OWN experience regarding our recovery from the diseases treated (treatable?) by the 12 steps of whatever programs we follow. you seem (in my opinion, and I might be wrong) to be here as a professional lecturer. Perhaps that's not your intent... --- msged 2.06 * Origin: Promises BBS, Nashville, TN (615)367-4410 (1:116/3000.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3I00009 Date: 03/12/96 From: DANN BROWN Time: 01:42pm \/To: RICHARD WARD (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Cure for alcoholism? -=> Quoting Richard Ward to Linda Glover & Ken Lewis <=- RW> ... I hate it when I put my two cents in...and get change back! I couldn't help but smile when I saw your tagline, Rich. It's been almost two years (this month) since I've been on the Recovery echo and I think that was when you stole it! When I last left you guys, I was fighting like hell to open up this non-alcoholic drug-free "coffee house" alternative for adults in the greater Orlando Area - CLUB SODA CENTRAL. It was very difficult to get to meetings, so I did my best to hold on to what sanity I had by sharing on this Echo. You, and Tom Dill, Marge Clark, Hariet Levy, Arkie, Rainbow Warrior, Thom R, and the rest helped me get through some very difficult times. I am, and will be, always grateful. Let me give you all some quick highlights: I went off-line 3/31/94 and moved into the construction site. Of course, very few people knew that. I had no income, and I was so pleased I had a roof over my head. I went to the local food bank and survived on canned goods. After working all day (and most of the night!) I would crash in the corner and pray for direction. What should have been a four to six week construction job took over a year! Finally, on March 23, 1995, we officially opened! We have dances on Thursday, Friday and Saturday, Karaoke on Sunday and Tuesday, live entertainment on Wednesday. Monday we "chill out" and watch movies. Twice a month, local AA and NA group sponsored dances are held (no affiliation - they just rent the facilities) and people from in and out of the fellowships get a chance to socialize. We have had "fun'raisers" for individuals including one two weeks ago for one Friend of Bill W. who had been trying to get a liver transplant for nearly two years for a liver transplant. Three days after the party he was air-lifted to Miami to recieve his "Gift of Life". I've watched miracles happen every day. This is not a recover house. It is open seven days a week to anyone who thinks a non-alcoholic drug free environment is suitable for their needs. The only requirment is that they are not "under the influence" while on the premises. About a third of the people are in some kind of recovery, a third are spiritually positioned where they prefer not to be around alcohol or drugs, and a third are active addicts or alcoholics, recreational or social users, or total abstainers. Everyone has something to offer, whether they know it or not. I've seen people on the edge of crisis meet a total stranger and say exactly the right thing to help them out. We had the highest ranking street oficer in the city show up and say he joined the program because he couldn't understand how so many people were having fun without the alcohol and he would go home and drink a case of beer. Don't get me wrong. We struggle every day to pay the bills. We're set up as a community service staffed by volonteers. No one is paid a salary, including myself. But we've donated nearly a ton of canned goods back to the food bank that helped me out, and we're making a difference in a quiet sort of way. Not too bad for a dain-bramaged recovering alcoholic too stubborn to just give up! I like to think God wasn't done with me when I had that car accident in June of 1990 (I was sober two years at the time. Funny, never had a fender- bender when I was drinking...). He gave me a bonus round. If any of you are in the area, please stop in. First cup of coffee is on e! If there are no objections from the moderator, I'd like to post the address and phone number: CLUB SODA CENTRAL 228 East Semoran Blvd. Casselberry, FL 32707 Tel: (407) 332-9999 If anyone would like a schedule of events, I'd be happy to put them on my mailing list. Drop me a post card. It good to be alive and sober! Luv you all, Dann ... "No, Twelve Step Programs are NOT Line-Dance Shows on cable!" ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Nurse Corner BBS - Orlando, FL (1:363/15)