--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3100003 Date: 02/27/96 From: BILLY O Time: 09:23am \/To: ANTHONY DEFILIPPI (Read 0 times) Subj: Question? BO> There is another perspective on that behavior. Sometimes when BO> people get loaded after getting out of the concrete womb, it's BO> because they are totally unprepared for life without an external BO> structure, and that terrifies them, and they medicate that fear BO> the best way they know how. AD> sounds like some experience there..... thanx for the input, and yes yes, it is. AD> I've heard some of the inmates expressing that same fear... they know AD> that all their friends and family are there lurking for them, along AD> with their old lives... changing that is very scary, even if it isn't AD> being released from the "concrete womb"... when I first came into AA my I had that fear when it came close to being time to leave my second treatment center. For me, getting away from, and staying away from the 22 other guys I was sleeping with in my barracks was harder than the merely physical aspects of not getting loaded anymore. Kicking the people and the society was harder than kicking the drugs. a "concrete womb" doesn't have to be made of concrete walls. AD> wife had just died and I was being forced into recovery by my bosses.. AD> there wasn't any structure in my life either, but there just seemed to AD> be some sort of drive inside of me that kept me alive and going in a AD> direction that I had no guidance on... I allowed myself to be led AD> around by the right people Thank God... I met an older couple inside AD> the rooms of AA who had about 20 years each... these two were AD> definitely God sends to me... they had experienced similar experiences You were able to let people lead you around. Alot of the people that our H & I meetings are done for have had really bad experiences being led. You had bosses that cared enough about you to push you into recovery. alot of the inmates don't have that, either. AD> and knew to lead me around.. so that direction by our Higher Power is AD> there even when we aren't aware of it... it basically boils down to how AD> badly we are hurting and want the change from that hurting... That is truth. BO> Might be along the same lines to view those who jump in and out of BO> relationships. Could be some kind of weakness. Could be some BO> kind of mind-numbing terror at being in a life that makes BO> absolutely no sense. AD> I'ev encountered a couple of those in the "concrete womb" too... one AD> male and one female... I listen to them rationalizing their actions and AD> then they come back with a statement like: "I know I have a problem AD> when it comes to those little idols, but I'll change as long as I keep AD> with God and my Bible." then when they are released it's back to the AD> same idols and back in the womb... so it doesn't really matter what our AD> addiction is... the results can be the same if we obsess in them.... Everybody that I've ever met has false idols. Everybody I've ever met does rationalizations. The ones in recovery just have false idols and rationalizations that are more socially acceptable, in our society. --- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12 [NR] * Origin: 12 Steps BBS via Hooray For Hollywood 213-653-7508 (1:102/749) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3100004 Date: 02/28/96 From: KURT J. TISCHER Time: 01:48pm \/To: KITTY JONES (Read 0 times) Subj: Hello? Hi Kitty, I haven't received a reply from you regarding my last message and I was wondering if it even got out. I hope I didn't offend you by anything I wrote there, I was just babbling, in a way. I am doing ok, though. I haven't drank and I have been talking to lots of people in the program to get through this difficult time. And it's getting easier, many people have told me that I look much better than I did a couple weeks ago. I feel a bit better. The main thing for me as far as my sobriety is concerned is not to throw away 4 years of recovery time over a woman. Hope to hear from ya, Kurt --- SLMAIL v4.5a (#4334) * Origin: 3RD EAR BBS - Middleburg Heights, Ohio - 216-234-6088 (1:157/438) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3100005 Date: 02/28/96 From: JOAN RENNE Time: 10:54pm \/To: RAIN (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: FOR YOUR INFO... Hi Rain, I was listening to your conversation with Elaine Loveless... RA>-> Well, that hasn't been offered yet. He did try some cortisone orally RA>-> but that didn't affect it at all. He said he wasn't RA>-> surprised...... RA>No, it pretty much has to be injected directly into the problem spots, RA>along with a longish-acting local anesthetic. Both does are tiny, but RA>since they go right where they're needed, it works. Your success rate must have been better than mine. I don't know how many times they injected in the same places. I am curious about one thing, though. First time around it was just in my back, and after the injections I noticed quite a different sensation. It's been more than a year since then, and the skin and muscles on my back feel like leather... at least to me. The muscles don't seem to stretch very much, and I notice it everytime I take a breath. I had one doctor tell me the muscles in my back and nothing to do with my breathing... grin, so I said... "feel, when I take a deep breath." He did, and said, "I was wrong." Mercy! I can't believe I have actually heard a doctor say he was wrong! Will wonders never cease? I'm having a real difficult time sleeping, again. I'm fine till I move and then it's wide awake time! I am, however, starting Elavil for pain, but I understand that doesn't work for very long. We'll see how this night turns out. Hopefully, I'll sleep, or at least rest. * SLMR 2.1a * ... Common sense? You should know me better than that! --- WM v3.01/93-0495 * Origin: Friend's BBS Omaha Ne (402)896-2669 (1:285/662.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3100006 Date: 02/28/96 From: SCOTT LEEPER Time: 04:30pm \/To: JOSEPH BARTMAN (Read 0 times) Subj: newcomer -=> Quoting Joseph Bartman to All <=- JB> Hello my name is Joe and I'm a sort of a newcomer to A.A. I'm almost JB> 30 sober nd I'm trying to stay that way I have been drinking since JB> my high school day and have been in A.A two times before but after JB> staying sober for about two we ks to 30 days I ve gone out drinking JB> again during this last time I think that have finely had enough of JB> drinking because its cost me my wife and kids (they eft me last month JB> ) so here I'm all alone and trying to stay sober I really do 't know JB> what the future holds for me but I don't think it can get much worse JB> y wife dose not want to have any thing to do with me and keeps calling JB> me to te l me that she need space or money or something fixed around JB> the house or just o push my buttons I just don't know what to do I JB> have started treatment and I very confused JB> I guess I would like some one to talk to about this JB> JB> thanks Joe -!- JB> * UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader JB> -!- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 JB> ! Origin: Castle Keep BBS, Bellevue NE (402)-292-0789 Support JB> (1:285/53.0) Joe; Hi, my name is Scott and I to am an alcoholic. I can really relate to what you are going through. I got sober 11 years ago and my bottom was quite simmilar to what you are talking about. After years of practicing the disease my (now ex) wife told me she wanted me to leave. I was to say the least, crushed. I felt like the little kid on the street corner who's mom just left him. I went into a treatment program a couple of days later to "win my family back" all while my wife was avoiding me like the plague. Like you the only time I heard from her was if she wanted money or something. Well I learned that no matter what she said or did the MOST IMPORTANT THING WAS FOR ME TO STAY SOBER ! I, no matter what, still have to live with me. I can't enter into a meaningful recovery unless that recovery is absolutely the number 1 thing in my life. As I said I have been around for awhile. One Day At A Time my life has changed as it will for you. All we need is one molecule more gratitude and desire to stay sober that to drink and it is a garauntee we will stay sober. It doesn't matter what anyone else does or says, it is always up to us on a second by second basis to stay sober Hang in there my friend you can make it, I did and it did get better, as it will for you if you want it to. I get mail on this echo quite often so write back and keep coming back. It may help you to go to meetings, if you aren't already, and get a sponser. Use the phone also, just do whatever you need to do. I'll chat at ya later Scott Leeper So. Bend In ... "Maybe the universe IS fuzzy." --- Hubble Telescope Scientists --- Michiana's Mail Hub! * Origin: CW Technical Support - South Bend, IN - (219) 272-8129 (1:227/129) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3100007 Date: 02/27/96 From: KITTY JONES Time: 12:21am \/To: KURT J. TISCHER (Read 0 times) Subj: Relationships suck, but. KJ>KJ>KJ>KJ>Has she said anything to you? Thank you, go away, etc.? KJ>KJ>KJ> She did not say thank you. KJ> Well, the pain I wanted relief from seems to be gone, but KJ>now I have a new pain to deal with. The grieving process. It is so KJ>hard for me to let go of things like this, sometimes years. It is KJ>tough to think that it took two years of drinking and four years of KJ>recovery to get over a previous relationship of 2 1/2 years. Is this KJ>one going to take as long to get over? So many unanswered questions KJ>and things left unsaid. It's very hard for me to let go also. Break ups do get easier though in time. The faster you get on w/your life the faster the healing of your heart will begin. KJ> Yes I believe this, but I'm having a hard time trying to KJ>figure out who let who go! I mean I was gonna get out after the KJ>incident in the parking lot, but she sucked me in with the "I can't KJ>imagine (this or that) without you..." bit. And you are the only KJ>person who has got that saying right. Everyone else has twisted it KJ>into something like: "If you love something, let it go, if it KJ>doesn't come back it wasn't meant to be..." blah, blah, blah... KJ> My philosophy is this: Things that aren't meant to be don't KJ>come into existence. (So many shades of grey in my philosophy right KJ>now, eh? ;)) It's just that I'm bummin' and I'm looking for a way KJ>out of it. Get involved w/AA. Help out in the district. It works wonder when you concentrate on other things. KJ> Maybe I'll even pedal my ass down to Boca Raton to meet you KJ>and your friends and have a weekend of fun in the sun! ;) (puts his KJ>finger to his lips and goes "shhhh") :))) Ha! KJ> On the other hand, you & your cronies could come up here to KJ>Cleveland, the heartland of the AA movement, take a tour of Dr. Bob's KJ>house... blah, blah, blah..... KJ> Hey, did you know that, ironically, there are twelve steps KJ>leading up to the porch at Dr. Bob's house? (in dracula voice, roll KJ>the r's) "Oooooh, scary kids!!!!! Bhuhahahahahahaha! Ha! KJ> Okay, I'm gonna go way out on a limb here. I don't like doing KJ>this in e-mail land but I'm gonna lower the drawbridge enough for KJ>you to cross the moat and stick a jam in the cogs so the door can't KJ>be closed completely. KJ> Notice the origin line at the bottom of this message: KJ>3RD EAR BBS is my personal BBS, I'm the Sysop. The telephone number KJ>is there, too, I think. Anyway, 3RD EAR BBS (216) 234-6088. You KJ>could even call and open up a free account for yourself, but that's KJ>long distance. My home number is almost the same as the BBS number. KJ>Just add 1 to the digit after the 0 in the number. My FIDO netmail KJ>address, 1:157/438 is also in the origin line. So you can send KJ>netmail (e-mail) straight to my BBS mailbox. Ask your Sysop about KJ>FIDO netmail privileges. My internet address is Third Ear@aol.com KJ>and my home address is: 16430 Heather Lane, Suite 103, Middleburg KJ>Heights, OH 44130. Thank you so much :)))). Your friend, Kitty ___ * POW 1.1 On Trial * GLYSDI --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: PC Emporium BBS * Boca Raton, FL * 407-994-3690 (1:3638/5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3100008 Date: 02/27/96 From: KITTY JONES Time: 12:22am \/To: PAT WINSTANLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Growing up PW>You might want to look at the PARENTS echo (I think it's backboned PW>in Z1, so any sysop should be able to get hold of it). It is PW>nothing to do with recovery as such, but there are a lot of PW>discussions which concern balancing the rights and needs of PW>the parents with the rights and needs of their children. A PW>lot of the chat is about pree-teens, but there are a PW>significant number of us with adolescents too. There are PW>quite a few single parents in there, so it's not PW>exclusively for the nuclear family types. PW>Most of the discussions are underpinned by the same sort of PW>principles as those in here... tolerance for the views of others, PW>take what you need, sharing ES&H... :-) Thank you. :)))) ___ * POW 1.1 On Trial * GLYSDI --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: PC Emporium BBS * Boca Raton, FL * 407-994-3690 (1:3638/5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3200000 Date: 03/01/96 From: ECHOLIST Time: 08:07am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: New RECOVERY EchoList Update The next message contains the latest RECOVERY EchoList. If you have any questions about the RECOVERY EchoList or the EchoList utility, please address them to Mark Sawyer at the address below. 1DAAT ... Mark ... Sysop of The Easy Does It: Recovery BBS 1:132/131.0@fidonet.org --- el v1.60-01 * Origin: Easy Does It:Recovery * Bow,NH * 603-228-0705 (1:132/131.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3200001 Date: 03/01/96 From: ECHOLIST Time: 08:07am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: RECOVERY EchoList A Collective Effort Of Higher Power As Manifested Through Each Of Us The Meetings of the RECOVERY Echo -=> March 1, 1996 <=- ST City Name Telephone Zon:Net/Node isc == =============== ============================ ============ ============ === AB Edmonton BACKBONE HUB 5011 403-453-5711 1:342/5011 AB Edmonton TRANSFORMATIONS 403-488-5490 1:342/602 AB Medicine Hat LUNATIC HAVEN BBS 403-526-6957 1:134/3002 AR Mountain Home SIRIUS 501-424-2510 1:19/14 AZ Phoenix CYBERSUPPORT HQ CO A BBS 602-231-9377 1:114/428 BC Burnaby ALANO CLUB 604-739-1188 1:153/840 BC Kamloops GRAPEVINE DEMONSTRATION BBS 604-376-9269 1:353/700 BC Quesnel THE RUSTY PIPELINE 604-992-2781 1:3404/155 CA Fresno TURN ON TO TEENS BBS 209-292-6403 1:205/80 CA Los Angeles HOORAY 4 HOLLYWOOD 213-653-7508 1:102/749 CA Oakland OASIS 510-444-8246 1:161/32 CA Sacramento OMAR'S CORNER BBS 916-487-4771 1:203/164 CA San Francisco RECOVERY 415-255-2188 1:125/9 CO Denver THE RAIN FOREST BBS 303-322-9824 1:104/901 CO Indian Hills THE MISSING LINK BBS 303-697-4097 1:104/693 CT Milford NUDE BEACH PARTY 203-882-8991 1:141/356 CT Woodbury GATEWAY TO HELL NODE 1 203-263-4542 1:141/1130 FL Boca Raton PC EMPORIUM BBS 407-994-1620 1:3638/5 FL Jacksonville RUBY'S JOINT 904-777-6799 1:112/129 FL Tampa VETNET GATEWAY VETLINK 1 813-249-8323 1:377/203 IN Michigan City MICHIANA ONLINE 219-929-1922 1:230/15 KY Louisville LOUISVILLE HOT HOUSE 502-969-3806 1:2320/180 LA Baton Rouge THE BLACK EAGLE 504-667-2675 1:3800/17 MA Haverhill COMPUTER CASTLE 508-521-6941 1:324/127 MA Rochdale BACK WOODS BBS 508-892-1186 1:322/572 MA Shrewsbury DREAMER'S LOT BBS 508-798-4188 1:322/758 MA Shrewsbury KEYSTONE BBS 508-753-3767 1:322/743 MA Worcester THIS IS THE PLACE 508-793-8502 1:322/739 MD Gaithersburg INTERMISSION 301-417-6952 1:109/474 MD Wheaton THE IDEA LINK 301-949-5764 1:109/432 MI Munith HORSEMAN'S BBS 517-769-4890 1:2330/20 MO Independence BORN TO BE WILD 816-373-3158 1:280/157 MO Mexico THE BEARLY BORED 573-581-6717 1:289/1 H MS Jackson STARNET 601-981-1394 1:3632/27 NE Bellevue CASTLE KEEP BBS 402-292-1021 1:285/53 NE Omaha FRIEND'S BBS VETLINK 67 402-896-2669 1:285/662 NH Bow EASY DOES IT 603-228-0705 1:132/131 NJ Fort Lee THE RIGHT PLACE HST 201-947-8231 1:2604/539 NM Alamogordo MAX ONLINE 505-434-5366 1:308/90 NY Latham THE THREE L'S BBS 518-785-6643 1:267/124 NY New York COMMUNICATION SPECIALTIES 212-627-3571 1:278/307 NY Rochester THE ROCHESTER EXCHANGE 716-359-9468 1:2613/203 NY Rochester TRUCK STOP BBS 716-235-0992 1:2613/403 NY Wappingers Fall THE WORLD'S END BBS 914-298-0158 1:2624/610 OH Middleburg Hts 3RD EAR BBS 216-234-6088 1:157/438 OK Oklahoma City THE SILENT SCREAM 405-943-1068 1:147/27 ON North York ABILITY ONLINE 416-650-6232 1:250/518 OR St Helens THE PSYCH WARD 503-397-6243 1:105/762 PA Collegeville BLACK BAG BBS 610-489-5897 1:2614/706 PA Darby THE SEEKER'S PLACE 610-237-6628 1:273/412 PA Lemoyne STIMPY'S SANDBOX 717-730-0147 1:270/722 PA Prospect Park BUCKWHEAT BBS 610-534-4446 1:273/410 SA Regina THE GREEN ZONE 306-789-7652 1:140/23 SA Saskatoon BENDEN WEYR 306-382-5746 1:140/22 SC Warrenville RFR COMMUNICATIONS 803-663-4856 1:3624/15 TN Memphis MR ZIP 901-761-1147 1:123/17 TN Nashville PROMISES A RECOVERY BBS AND 615-367-4410 1:116/3000 TX Austin THE VETERAN'S VOICE OF AUSTI 512-473-4142 1:382/811 TX Round Rock NSMH FIDO PODS GATE 512-310-7705 1:382/506 TX Texarkana MICROTALK 903-832-3722 1:3819/120 TX Wichita Falls MAJIK SHOPPE II 817-851-8590 1:3805/5 VA Alexandria THE ENLIGHTENED BOARD 703-370-9528 1:109/615 WA Graham MOODY BLUES 206-893-3101 1:138/155 WA Kent THE NORTHWEST CONNECTION 206-248-7953 1:343/274 WA Kirkland RECOVERY NORTHWEST 206-827-9613 1:343/261 WA Spanaway COVENANT FAMILY BBS 206-846-3798 1:138/228 WA Tacoma TACOMA RECOVERY BBS 206-589-3820 1:138/240 Key To Miscellaneous Information ================================ O-OPUS, R-RBBS, Q-QBBS, H-HST ST City Name Telephone (Int #) on:Net/Node == =============== =========================== ================== =========== LA Bury THE PIG PEN 011-44-161-763-4707 2:250/150 QL Redcliffe REDCLIFFE LIBRARY 011-61-7-283-0315 3:640/203 * * * * * * * * The RECOVERY EchoList includes: a) BBS's that have originated messages to the RECOVERY echo during the past 60 days, and b) whose net/node information was detectable in the origin line by the echolist utility software, and c) whose net/node was listed in the FidoNet nodelist. The RECOVERY EchoList does not include: a) BBS's that belong only to nets other than one of the nets listed in (c) above (because they are not in a nodelist), or b) points and unlisted BBS's (likewise, and because they generally are not available to callers), or c) BBS's that carry the echo but from which no messages have been entered in the last 60 days, or d) BBS's for which the origin line information was so incomplete that the net/node information could not be determined. If you know of a board in the third category and would like to see it listed, call it and enter a message in its RECOVERY Echo message area. If the message, with its origin line, reaches 1:132/131 it will appear in the next list. Sysops can file request RCVRYBBS.LST from 132/131 at any time for the current list. The RECOVERY EchoList is updated periodically and is distributed to the RECOVERY Echo on a monthly basis. Thanks, as always, to all the callers, sysops, and lurkers who help me to stay sober one day at a time. 1DAAT ... Mark ... Sysop of The Easy Does It: Recovery BBS 1:132/131.0@fidonet.org * * * * * * * * The RECOVERY Echolist Copyright (C) Mark Sawyer 1990-1995 This list may be freely printed and posted in its original form only. * * * * * * * * --- el v1.60-01 * Origin: Easy Does It:Recovery * Bow,NH * 603-228-0705 (1:132/131.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3200002 Date: 03/01/96 From: MICHAEL O'DWYER Time: 04:15am \/To: ADAM BINDER (Read 0 times) Subj: Cure For Alcoholism? AB> Jane, I think if you wish to form an opinion like this on alcoholism, AB> you are obviously cured! My hat is off to you!! Self Knowledge and a AB> bunch of B.S. Psychological Junk will not keep you sober. Only a AB> Spiritual way of living is the solution. But in your case if it works AB> for you, then I respect that of you.. This is an AA based Conference, AB> Not Psychology 101 or etc.. AB> Adam Binder.. Friend of Bills!! I sure wish I could see the message of hers you were referring to! Mike O'D...Another friend if Dr. Bob & Bill W. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace ]I[ BBS (1:141/427) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D3200003 Date: 03/01/96 From: MICHAEL O'DWYER Time: 04:23am \/To: JOAN REA (Read 0 times) Subj: information JR> Did you know that coincidence is simply God being anonymous? JR> There was some discussion about trouble in relationships recently. I JR> didn't feel I should butt in as I hadn't read the whole JR> thing *but* If you sincerely want a relationship to work, 59-50 is not JR> good enough. If you are not 100% for your partner, JR> you're wasting your time. If you only expect to have JR> to give 50% and have the other person meet you with JR> their 50%, you're putting love on a commercial basis. Happiness is the JR> desire to give; unhappiness is the desire to get. JR> Life's that simple. If I spend my time looking for JR> things to make my spouse's life happier, I feel good. JR> If I spend it looking for things he should do for me, I'm miserable JR> because firstly he'll never be able to do enough for JR> that type of selfish person and secondly, he won't have JR> a clue as to how to make me happy because I won't even JR> know myself. The insanity spoken of in step two is JR> precisely this childish, demanding, self-centredness JR> wherin I make demands on the world to give me happines JR> if it will only (fill in the blank......) forgetting JR> that as I give to the world, so it gives to me. I see JR> people talking aabout smugly thanking God that the JR> spouse is the sicker one sounds like alkie false JR> pride to me. Joan That sounds like good wisdom to me Joan. I wish my soon to be ex-wife would be able to know even a little of what you just said......... --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace ]I[ BBS (1:141/427)