--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2V00002 Date: 02/23/96 From: KITTY JONES Time: 07:33pm \/To: JOSEPH BARTMAN (Read 0 times) Subj: newcomer JB>Hello my name is Joe and I'm a sort of a newcomer to A.A. JB>I'm almost 30 sober JB>nd I'm trying to stay that way I have been drinking JB>since my high school day JB> and have been in A.A two times before but after staying JB>sober for about two we JB>ks to 30 days I ve gone out drinking again during this JB>last time I think that JB> have finely had enough of drinking because its cost me my JB>wife and kids (they JB>eft me last month ) so here I'm all alone and trying to JB>stay sober I really do JB>'t know what the future holds for me but I don't think it JB>can get much worse JB>y wife dose not want to have any thing to do with me and JB>keeps calling me to te JB>l me that she need space or money or something fixed around JB>the house or just JB>o push my buttons I just don't know what to do I have JB>started treatment and I JB> very confused JB>I guess I would like some one to talk to about this JB> JB>thanks Joe --- JB>* UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader JB>--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 JB> * Origin: Castle Keep BBS, Bellevue NE (402)-292-0789 Support JB>(1:285/53.0) Hi Joe! I'm an alcoholic and my name is Kitty. Please just take it one day at a time. I know it's hard, but w/the help of people in the program, you will be ok. Just don't drink no matter how much someone pushes your buttons. About your wife, Right now she is just as hurt and confused as you are. My ex husband is also an alcholic and when I first left him w/our son, it was hard, but now I can say we're good friends. It took a long time, but now that we're both in recovery, its good. anyway, I have to get going to my friday nite meeting. hope to hear from you soon. ___ X POW 1.1 On Trial X GLYSDI --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: PC Emporium BBS * Boca Raton, FL * 407-994-3690 (1:3638/5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2V00003 Date: 02/22/96 From: PAT WINSTANLEY Time: 07:23am \/To: KITTY JONES (Read 0 times) Subj: Growing up Hi Kitty, Saturday February 17 1996 15:10, Kitty Jones wrote to Pat Winstanley: KJ> You and your son sound just like me and my son. I feel bad KJ> for you, but am also glad that I'm not the only one going KJ> through this w/my son who will be 12 years old in a few KJ> days. It's nice to know I have someone whom I can share this KJ> with and hope you feel the same way. Anytime! :-) You might want to look at the PARENTS echo (I think it's backboned in Z1, so any sysop should be able to get hold of it). It is nothing to do with recovery as such, but there are a lot of discussions which concern balancing the rights and needs of the parents with the rights and needs of their children. A lot of the chat is about pree-teens, but there are a significant number of us with adolescents too. There are quite a few single parents in there, so it's not exclusively for the nuclear family types. Most of the discussions are underpinned by the same sort of principles as those in here... tolerance for the views of others, take what you need, sharing ES&H... :-) Pat --- * Origin: Pierless, Wigan, UK. [01942-749012 (voice)] (2:250/107.99) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2V00004 Date: 02/24/96 From: ANTHONY DEFILIPPI Time: 03:51pm \/To: BILLY O (Read 0 times) Subj: Question? -=> Billy O was quoted in msg to Anthony Defilippi <=- Hi Billy!!.. BO> There is another perspective on that behavior. Sometimes when BO> people get loaded after getting out of the concrete womb, it's BO> because they are totally unprepared for life without an external BO> structure, and that terrifies them, and they medicate that fear BO> the best way they know how. sounds like some experience there..... thanx for the input, and yes I've heard some of the inmates expressing that same fear... they know that all their friends and family are there lurking for them, along with their old lives... changing that is very scary, even if it isn't being released from the "concrete womb"... when I first came into AA my wife had just died and I was being forced into recovery by my bosses.. there wasn't any structure in my life either, but there just seemed to be some sort of drive inside of me that kept me alive and going in a direction that I had no guidance on... I allowed myself to be led around by the right people Thank God... I met an older couple inside the rooms of AA who had about 20 years each... these two were definitely God sends to me... they had experienced similar experiences and knew to lead me around.. so that direction by our Higher Power is there even when we aren't aware of it... it basically boils down to how badly we are hurting and want the change from that hurting... BO> Might be along the same lines to view those who jump in and out of BO> relationships. Could be some kind of weakness. Could be some BO> kind of mind-numbing terror at being in a life that makes BO> absolutely no sense. I'ev encountered a couple of those in the "concrete womb" too... one male and one female... I listen to them rationalizing their actions and then they come back with a statement like: "I know I have a problem when it comes to those little idols, but I'll change as long as I keep with God and my Bible." then when they are released it's back to the same idols and back in the womb... so it doesn't really matter what our addiction is... the results can be the same if we obsess in them.... BO> anyway..... just wanted to dump in my .02. thanx... be looking for your reply... cya ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2 * Origin: Ruby's Joint BBS 904.777.6799 (1:112/129) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2V00005 Date: 02/25/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 07:28am \/To: TIM DILL (Read 0 times) Subj: RELATIONSHIPS On (23 Feb 96) TIM DILL wrote to RICHARD WARD... ==> A hush fell over the room when Richard Ward said to Harriet Levy <== RW> On (18 Feb 96) HARRIET LEVY wrote to TOAD STRANGLER... ==> A hush fell over the room when Toad Strangler said to Kitty Jones <== RW> How lucky can ONE get? ;-) TD> I dunno Rich, but at this moment I am answering this off her machine Are you on the east coast? TD> and I am enjoying the visit..... ... Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. L. Long --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2V00006 Date: 02/19/96 From: BOB ROUSHAR Time: 06:49am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Help for Parents Parents: If you would be interested in attending a nationally-known and respected course for improving parent-child relationships and practical methods for solving ongoing conflicts, then this message is for you. I am preparing to offer a course called Systematic Training for Effective Parenting (STEP for short). This course has been prepared by Don Dinkmeyer, PH.D and Gary D. Mckay, PH.D and published by the American Guidance Service. This course offers some principles and strategies to use to solve conflicts with children or to prevent them. Although there is a course for effectively dealing with teenagers, the one I will be offering specifically addresses pre-teen children. I becam e involved with this program about two years ago when I was having a terrible time with my five-year-old. This material has been a Godsend to my wife and to me. I can vouch for its effectiveness. There will be a registration cost to cover materials and facilities. From the feedback I have received so far, it looks like the first session will be filled to capacity very quickly. Please call to reserve a place. I will send you a registration form a nd additional information. The number is 803-642-6899, ask for Bob or leave a message. P.S. They don't come with owner's manuals, but this is the closest thing to it. --- * Origin: RFR COMMUNICATIONS 8.5Gigs 5Nodes (803)663-4856 (1:3624/15) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2V00007 Date: 02/25/96 From: BILLY O Time: 06:49am \/To: MARGE CLARK (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: RE: QUESTION? -=> Quoting Marge Clark to Billy O <=- ->> People get defensive when attacked. People get defensive when ->> their ideology is attacked. MC> no joke. people get real reactive when the program that saved their MC> lives gets attacked, too, Billy, you know? Yes, I know. But....... attacking the program is kinda sorta like attacking the position of the sun, or a particular cloud formation. Once the program is in my heart it cannot really be attacked, just maybe disagreed with. Or, like what I think is happening in this case, have information added to it. The program is a Way. And for me, it's not a closed loop Way. There is no ending to the amount of info that can be added to how one does the Way. --- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12 [NR] * Origin: 12 Steps BBS via Hooray For Hollywood 213-653-7508 (1:102/749) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2V00008 Date: 02/25/96 From: BILLY O Time: 07:09am \/To: MARGE CLARK (Read 0 times) Subj: Alcologic -=> Quoting Marge Clark to Billy O <=- MC> I wish I had that much originality. ;-( ->> You do. not to worry. MC> oh. MC> wow. MC> i suspect that's a 'thank you and shut up' no? No. There is no "and shut up" anywhere in that. Just a reminder kinda thing. I'm not in the "and shut up" business. That happens all on it's own, usually, eventually. MC> so....how is Billy O? last I heard he was in a relationship that MC> seemed almost comfortable. and was in process of maybe getting to go I'm in a relationship with someone who maybe could possibly benefit from Al-anon or Coda, maybe. The difference is she seems to be open to changing her perspective and reaction patterns when positive reflection happens. Not to say that she is malleable. Nope. unh-unh. But she comes from dysfunction. But, she is the most willing person I'v ever met when it comes to owning her own stuff. and she melts me with her smile. Like, butter in the sun kinda stuff. Blows my mind how all my years of armor and defensiveness and agro-expectations can be rendered not so much gone as completely unneccessary. By a facial movement. Well, not just a smile, it's the intent behind it too. She's done alot of yoga, and has internalized it. That gives her a certian place of balance to return to when we are "discussing" things. MC> into competition with the boss from hell? Still don't know if I'm gonna go into competition with him or buy him out. If I took one of my offers and took possession of ten brand new pedal trucks....... I still wouldn't be in competition with him because I am the driving factor with his company. Where I go, the talent and the troops go. The bummer is, he is the kinda guy who would throw roofing nails and broken glass on the roads around my shop and would hire people to have accidents on my bikes. And then I would have to do some serious stuff in order to avoid becoming the person I used to be. His idea of "competition" and how to deal with it is pretty annoying. My idea of it gets too chilling for words, quickly. It's not him I fear in that scenario. It's me. and there is some kind of family of origin issues at work here, too. For sure. I'm not quite sure what yet. The theory is; this situation is an opportunity for me to continue to act the way I did when I was growing up under my father, or, an opportunity to do now what I didn't have the power to do then. Lots of fear. Taking lots of breaks for breathing, working out, praying for clarity and guidance and power to do the right thing. and when that fails, I abuse my body with toxic amounts of espresso and pastries. I've got a friend who will lend me about 30k to buy this ferengi out of the picture. That brings up fears of harming a friend thru my ignorance or flakiness. Logically, an urealistic fear. But try telling that to my gut. urgh. Program buddies, the ones who have the experience to share in this kind of deal, are all very supportive and sometimes that helps, sometimes it just triggers a shame attack. It's life. and it's happening. I've got to learn about stuff I've always avoided. I've got to learn stuff that my mind just goes completely blank around. Tax laws, workman's comp stuff, corporate structure and legal wording, all that kind of stuff. hate it. just really hate it. get headaches reading legal contracts. But, if i want the gig, I gotta keep pushing thru. The trick is to "allow" it to happen instead of "pushing it" to happen. I've got it in my reality that this is a good thing. and I've got it that I need to allow it to come thru me. When I get real deep into meditation on this, that's the kind of message Iget. And that is the message I've gotten from having Tarot readings and from doing undirected stream of consciousness "let the fingers do the talking" exercises I do on the word processor. So, it's a go. And as usual, the only thing slowing me down is my fear of doing something I'm not already good at. Fears of screwing up and harming others. Just fears. Reasonable cautions taken to unreasonable effect. But I'm here. and I'm doing it. And it's mostly okay. More later, as it comes around. --- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12 [NR] * Origin: 12 Steps BBS via Hooray For Hollywood 213-653-7508 (1:102/749) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2V00009 Date: 02/25/96 From: BILLY O Time: 07:28am \/To: MARGE CLARK (Read 0 times) Subj: Question? -=> Quoting Marge Clark to Billy O <=- MC> we don't need to work the steps; we just need to eat right. MC> now I understand. ->> It does help. MC> of course it helps, Billy. that's common sense, I think. but, you It's not common sense around the rooms I've been in. MC> but all the 'balanced nutrition' in the world isn't going to keep me MC> sober, you know? ->> I have found that spirulina makes my day a more balanced place to ->> be. And when I'm balanced, I act out a lot less. MC> i'm giving pycogenyl a shot. no differences yet that I'm aware of, MC> but am going to try....based on the suggestions of some old friends MC> whose suggestions I value. Don't know what that is, or anything about it. but cool, it's probably a step in the right direction. It's my thing that proper nutrition and exercise doesn't remove the need to do the steps or work a program..... it just makes it a little less neccessary. When the body is in balance and properly maintained, it's a lot less inclined to addict behaviors. Most of my "acting out" comes on the heels of my need to get relief from some kind of stress. And most of that stress starts in the body, then gets interpreted by the thinking, and that's when it turns into a downhill run on a sled with no controls. I'm remembering something about some AA lit. saying something about how the problem with the alcoholic (addict) is as much in the body as it is in the mind. It's not just the thinking. Its not just the deeply ingrained behavior response patterns. It's also in the body. When I'm not eating right, my body goes into "fight or flight" and then my mind looks around at my environment to find a cause for that feeling of free floating anxiety. That's how I create mountians out of molehills. I'm getting lots of that lately, with the stresses of taking over this company and being majorly responsible for ten other people being able to pay their rent and have grocery money. When, not if, but when I don't work out regularly and with proper attitude, when I don't fuel my body correctly, when I don't spend enough time in the link with my Source, when I don't spend enough time with my peer group, I get twisted up in my thinking and all kinds of negative behaviors become not only attractive, but damn near unstoppable. It's still amazing to me just how many panic attacks or rage runs or ..... sex trips can be tuned out by eating a banana and chatting with some recovery person. Ah-may-zing. And this kind of knowing is not a major topic of discussion in the 12 step rooms. Seems like most people are still struggling to look good without having trouble with it, or are on some kind of jihad against improper language or tradition adhearance, or are struggling to get "good" enough to be in grace. urgh. spare me. I agree with alot of what Jane sez. I am bummered that there is some much reactive conflict going on around it. I see more personality conflict than idea conflict. And yeah, that's real normal for 12 step people. None of us got edge-free personalities. Yeah, well, the edge of my own personal soap-box is cutting into my calf muscles right now, so I'm gonna stop it here. I don't wanna choose sides or get into who is right or wrong or inappropriate or whatever..... I just wanna express my sadness at the heavily reactive nature of the situation. MC> and it's amazing what aromatherapy can do, as well. ;-) Oh yeah. girlfriend person has all these little bottles full of wierdo scent stuff we put in the tub. And yeah, they do have powerfull effects. for reals. ->> But anyway, it's turning into a nice light show. MC> mmmmmmmmmmmmmm be a shame to have to wait til july for fireworks, MC> wouldn't it? Don't know if it would be a shame or not. I do know that it ain't likely to happen, us waiting. --- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12 [NR] * Origin: 12 Steps BBS via Hooray For Hollywood 213-653-7508 (1:102/749) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2W00000 Date: 02/25/96 From: ANTHONY DEFILIPPI Time: 08:52am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Question? -==- JK>Unless we can find several ways of doing things that are a lot better JK>than what we have today, alcoholics and addicts are going to continue t JK>spend a lot of time incarcerated. Time that would be far better spent JK>working on improving the quality of their lives. the inmates here are amazed at the time we are willing to spend with them.. they seem to appreciate it when we take time out of our schedules to visit and talk with them on days like Christmas, New Years Eve, Easter, etc... maybe that's another of those ways of helping people to realize that someone does care enough to want them to change... but then who can second guess anyone???... JK>By the time most folks get out of prison or jail for drug related JK>crimes, their resources are gone along with the folks they need to help JK>them. Then they begin the long haul towards rehabilitation. that all depends on whether those friends of theirs are there when they get out or not too... I hear a lot of the inmates incarcerated for drugs telling us that once they get out they know their old friends and hangouts will come to them and trying to run form that just doesn't work.. once again I think it all goes back to: "how badly does a person want this change??" JK>This costs all of us tons of money and is stupid. The attitude towards JK>rehabilitation of addicts begins with folks in the 12th step programs. JK>If they aren't in favor of what works, then no one else is going to JK>support this either. this is true, but maybe some people are just looking for that excuse once again too... __-==-__ --- * WR 1.31 # 675 * God's delays are not God's denials. * Origin: Ruby's Joint BBS 904.777.6799 (1:112/129) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2W00001 Date: 02/21/96 From: TIM DILL Time: 07:49am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Question? On (19 Feb 96) Jane Kelley was mumbling to Elaine Loveless... JK> Or, to tell a diabetic not to use insulin or a bipolar not to take JK> lithium. Jane, you were told to take this thread to a medical echo by the moderator.. obviously you ignored that.. now simply... cease this thread at once, it is off topic for the recovery echo.... and this is the LAST warning you will receive on this.... Tim Dill Asst Moderator Recovery Echo --- PPoint 2.00 * Origin: Nuclear Waste Software /*\ We Glow Too! (1:102/749.2)