--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00000 Date: 02/02/96 From: ALLYSON SANDS Time: 01:20pm \/To: ELAINE LOVELESS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Question? EL> before you jump on this, I want to explain that I believe that there EL> are EL> alcoholics just like there are other people who may need therapy for EL> problems they are dealing with....but I don't think that therapy is EL> necessary for recovery....... Gee, kind of like me? :) Bill says it in the Big Book - that God made doctors and therapists for a reason... and if there are indications that we need outside help then by all means, go for it! But I try to keep in mind that my psychiatrist is treating my mind and brain chemistry, whereas AA is helping ME to treat my soul. :) Ally ___ * OFFLINE 1.56 * That was so much fun, I wish I'd asked permission to do it! --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Alano Club (604)739-1188 (1:153/840) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00001 Date: 02/03/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 08:51pm \/To: TIM DILL (Read 1 times) Subj: MSG BELOW WAS ...... TD> On (28 Jan 96) HARRIET LEVY was mumbling to TIM DILL... HL> Excuse me????? You would, would you??? Frankly I don't think you HL> could handle it. TD> Nope, prolly not.... TD> Given our experience ;-) See you in 3 weeks..... Just WHO is going to go WHERE so that you can accomplish THAT? ... Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. L.Long --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00002 Date: 02/04/96 From: RAIN Time: 12:30am \/To: MARTIN WAXMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: newer version of old message -> I am your addiction. -> And yet, i did not come uninvited. You chose me. In fact, you -> welcomed me with open arms. Sorry, Marty, but I did NOT choose to become addicted. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 * Origin: Louisville Hot House (1:2320/180.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00003 Date: 02/05/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 04:49am \/To: MARGE CLARK (Read 1 times) Subj: Question? On (03 Feb 96) Marge Clark wrote to Richard Ward... MC> I thought I heard Richard Ward (1:102/749.7) say: MC> I thought I heard Jane Kelley (1:138/155@fidonet) say: MC> ->>Today we can salvage some of these folks if we can figure out MC> that's it! we don't need to work the steps; we just need to eat right. MC> ->>WE used that idea 20+ years ago in NYC. ;-) After every meeting MC> ->>I remember going to AA meetings in NYC for six years just for coffee MC> ->>cookies and to bum cigs before I stopped drinking on a ODAAT basis. Hi Marge, Just SHARING some of my "E" as in "ES&H" in the same manner one would (and "I" still do), kind of as a rebuttal. :-) Little off target remarks like that are, at times, effective at getting people to re-read msgs and hopefully re-think what was/is said. MC> Rich, people still get together at shoneys or denny's or wherever the I know, those and one on one types are my main meetings. Being retired and out and about most of the time it would be immpossible for me to avoid 5 or 6 meetings of this type a day. MC> after the meeting' is ... but I don't think that was what Jane was After all this time, Marge, you think I didn't know! ;-) "I" think that after "they" perfect the pill that "cures" alcoholism that AA will still be around probably because of the "fellowship" and counsellors and nutritionist who specialize in alkies will fall by the wayside. ;-) MC> referring to what all. that's FELLOWSHIP... (and dessert! ;-) ... If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why. --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00004 Date: 02/05/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 05:35am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Free Dog On (03 Feb 96) Jane Kelley wrote to Corky Gregson... CG> While the Big Book clearly states that we have a physical disease, as JK> Sorry. The cause of alcoholism in not alcohol, it is but a symptom. We Jane, I appreciate much of the data that you enter here however this echo is for 12 step oriented chatting/lite sharing. To the best of my 23+ years of recollection of what I heard in meetings the need to numb the mind/brain/ memory, kill the pain, avoid the feelings/ whatever was reason enough to "drink". NOT picking up the first one, ODAAT, was the best way we had found that worked for about ONE out of FOUR of us. JK> changes in treatment for all addicts. Although I keep up with much of what is written on the subjects of alcohol, other addictions and treatments of them I haven't become aware of any successes greater then about one out of four. Perhaps you would get more satisfactionif these topics were discussed in a medical/health forum. I remember back in 1972/3 being involved in a psychodrama sistuation. We used to invite the med students from Stoneybrook, at the State University of New York as active participants. Kind of hoped to show them the kind of questions that helped identify "alkies" among patients they were interviewing. ... "You have to move to limit freedom." -Bill Clinton, 1994 --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00005 Date: 02/05/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 06:11am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Question? On (03 Feb 96) Jane Kelley wrote to Anthony Defilippi... JK> A.A. alone isn't enough for this type of addict. They also require a firm JK> professional who can figure out what answers the person needs and rovide JK> them before the person asks the questions. JK> That is the secret, to do enough education to break down the denial. A.A. JK> isn't geared to do this and should not be. To know enough to Part of the reason I suggested a medical/health forum for this discussion ... JK> individualize JK> treatment for each person is the job of the professional. ... Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time & annoys the pig L.Long --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00006 Date: 02/05/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 06:14am \/To: HARRIET LEVY (Read 1 times) Subj: Question? On (01 Feb 96) HARRIET LEVY wrote to TIM DILL... AD> order to comply with a certain co-moderator's wishes..... TD> Welcome, I hope my esteemed partner in crime did not give you TD> too much of a headache over there.. HL> And what do you mean headache??? I'll give you headache......as HL> in "Not tonight, dear, I have a...." Harriet, Harriet, I thought that that was one of Tim's lines. ;-) PS. Does the BBS you use accept crashmail? I can't seem to send direct to you. ... A friend in need is a pain in the ass. --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00007 Date: 02/05/96 From: RICHARD WARD Time: 06:18am \/To: HARRIET LEVY (Read 1 times) Subj: Cure for Alcoholism? On (02 Feb 96) HARRIET LEVY wrote to JANE KELLEY... ==> A hush fell over the room when Mhs:jane Kelley@1:138/155 said to Joan HL> So all we have to do is find our food allergies, eat right, take HL> vitamins, and our alcoholism will disappear? No! But hang on, soon the PILL will be perfected and alcholism will be ... ... I know so little, but I know it fluently.... --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Steps of DC West! Long Beach, CA (1:102/749.7) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00008 Date: 02/05/96 From: ELAINE LOVELESS Time: 01:15pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: RE: QUESTION? On 1 Feb 96 08:25am, Jane Kelley wrote to ELAINE LOVELESS: EL>> Ah, so if a person doesn't go through treatment, they can't have EL>> complete recovery.......by the way what is complete recovery? For EL>> myself I find that I have a daily reprieve from my disease based on EL>> my EL>> spiritual condition for that day.......But then I can understand that EL>> if EL>> a person receives pay for being a therapist for recovering alcoholics EL>> they would certainly want people to go to treatment and get what they JK> This therapist has gotten sick and tired of watching her friends who JK> have over 20 years of A.A. get very ill from physical diseases that JK> seem to go along with alcoholism. One man is a diabetic alcoholic who JK> has had two major surgeries back to back, first a heart by pass in JK> order to get him in shape to have one cancerous kidney removed. HIs JK> blood sugar has always been very erratic due to the way he eats. He JK> smoked up until recently. JK> Their sort of suicide is applauded by other alcoholics who don't know JK> any better. Sounds to me like they need a good medical doctor, not a therapist! I guess I'm lucky on that score......I have always made it very clear up front that I'm a recovering alcoholic, my doctor's and I discuss my medical conditions as well as treatment options.....but I don't need a therapist to do that......:) ... I admit that I am powerless over my modem and my life is unmanageable. Bright Blessings, Elaine * Silver Xpress V4.01P SW12813 --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.03M1 --- Squish/386 v1.11 * Origin: The Crossroads BBS, Round Rock, Texas (512) 255-8985 (1:382/506) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: D2A00009 Date: 02/05/96 From: ELAINE LOVELESS Time: 05:12pm \/To: ALLYSON SANDS (Read 1 times) Subj: RE: QUESTION? On 2 Feb 96 01:20pm, Allyson Sands wrote to Elaine Loveless: EL>> before you jump on this, I want to explain that I believe that there EL>> are EL>> alcoholics just like there are other people who may need therapy for EL>> problems they are dealing with....but I don't think that therapy is EL>> necessary for recovery....... AS> AS> Gee, kind of like me? :) Bill says it in the Big Book - that God made AS> doctors and therapists for a reason... and if there are indications that AS> we need outside help then by all means, go for it! But I try to keep in AS> mind that my psychiatrist is treating my mind and brain chemistry, AS> whereas AA is helping ME to treat my soul. :) Exactly! Same with me, and my psychiatrist makes a point of telling me that my best support group is AA! :) ... "Every time I've built character, I've regretted it.": Calvin Bright Blessings, Elaine * Silver Xpress V4.01P SW12813 --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.03M1 --- Squish/386 v1.11 * Origin: The Crossroads BBS, Round Rock, Texas (512) 255-8985 (1:382/506)