--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGP00008 Date: 12/19/95 From: RAIN Time: 12:10am \/To: MATRIKA (Read 1 times) Subj: Coda -> About that people pleasing, then there is the point in recovery where -> you get so detached that you just don't give a darn about anyone -> else - which also turned out to be wrong for me. -> I am talking about BALANCE. -> That is what I find hard. Either I have slammed my defenses down and -> put my walls up so high that some people just can never get near me -> again or I am trusting someone I hardly know completely and that's -> wrong for me too. Oooooh, my friend, you are sure tellin' my story!! I have a really hard time with finding this balance between enough self-protection and enough gentleness/openness. Self-protection is imperative for me as a recovering doormat, but I am a profoundly social person too, and it's a real tightwire act sometimes, especially with men. This is one place where the technical (as opposed to theological) aspect of the Craft has helped me: good wards and shields of the magickal sort allow me to lower my psychological shields a little more than I formerly could without losing all my sense of safety. It's sort of a psychological and spiritual analog of what happened when my job working with violent mental patients required me to learn a nonviolent but extremely effective system of physical self-defense. Knowing I was protected in that way allowed me a confidence and gentleness with patients that made me a better therapist; I was willing to get in closer and really engage in a friendly way with angry or fearful patients, because I was less afraid of getting knocked on my ass. The balance is still something I struggle with, though. Thanks for bringing it up. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 * Origin: Louisville Hot House (1:2320/180.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGP00009 Date: 12/18/95 From: LAWRENCE CHEN Time: 8:56Uam \/To: TERRI DUVAL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Is there a healthy limit for the alc8:56U:0012/18/95 Check out what Terri Duval wrote on 17 Dec 95 00:41:00: TA> I think you misplaced a decimal point there Terri.... .5% is a TA> lot different than 5 %. TD> I didn't misplace the decimal. I didn't place one. By federal TD> regulations if your company produces any beverage that contains less TD> than 5.0% alcohol (or in terms that all of us understand... is 10 proof TD> or less) that beverage can legally be considered non-alcoholic. Read TD> the labels. I guess you Americans have it worse than us..... Up here regular beer is 5%.....inorder to be called light beer up here...you have to have less alcohol than regular beer. Whereas in the US all you have to claim is less calories to be called 'light'. Non-alcoholic beer is 0.5%. There's only one alcohol-free beer available up here, the grocery store has been carrying it for years before non-alcoholic beer became common. Currently our grocery stores aren't allowed to see liqour, except cooking wine.....though they want to be able to. --- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60 * Origin: Lunatic Haven - Medicine Hat, Alberta CANADA (1:134/3002) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGP00010 Date: 12/15/95 From: PSAPPHO Time: 11:28pm \/To: RAYMOND COOL (Read 1 times) Subj: Who is God R> Because, Raymond, not everybody's Higher Power is R> God, or male. And because an *honest* relationship with and R> *honestly* envisioned Higher Power is something most of us find R> necessary to sobriety. RC> RC> First, I'm very glad SOMEONE here has patience with RC> me. I use the word God because the big book RC> of Alcoholics Anonymous does. In it we find numerous RC> references to "God". He is mentioned as "our Maker" RC> "Supreme Being", and "Him". RC> If a person reads Alcoholics Anonymous with the focus RC> on every reference to God, they will find that God is RC> not only presented, but defined to a certain extent, RC> even though there is very wide lattitude on what RC> concept the individual has of God. In fact, the RC> emphasis on comeing to an individual, PERSONAL RC> understanding (concept) of God is an integral part of RC> the book, and hence a vital part of the Program. RC> I do not expect ANYONE to believe in God, and I certainly wouldn't RC> expect them to come to the understanding I have of RC> him, and I have no intention of forcing my concepts on RC> anyone. However, I refuse to stay "in the closet" RC> when it comes to talking about what God has done in my RC> life, or to an unbeliver, what "I percieve God has RC> done in my life". I do not expect to be listened RC> to,but I expect the right to speak. I expect these RC> this because of the undeniable talk of God in RC> Alcoholics Anonymous (the big book). It is there, it RC> is part of the program. RC> No doubt the program has worked for many untold RC> alcoholics who to this day have no clear concept of RC> God. I think that is wonderfull. I think though, RC> that even they will admit (those >I< know have) that RC> they trudge a more difficult road. Some have told me RC> that sobriety would be easier for them if they had the RC> faith I possess. RC> So I don't demand center stage, but as a recovering RC> alcoholic in the program of A.A. I think I have a RC> place somewhere on it with the rest of A.A. I have a RC> message that certain of my fellows desparetly want to RC> hear, for when I speak of God I speak of a concept RC> they clearly understand. Thank you for your views. I was thrown out of more than one AA meeting Because when the text said He in reference to God I replaced it with She. My diety is female. I did not ask anyone else to do this. I did it for me and only when I was asked to read. This caused such a stink that I was asked not to return to two good ole 'Christian AA Meetings'. To me this was very wrong. At another meeting that I attended for over a year I simply refused to be part of the closing circle because they always did the "Lords" prayer. That is clearly a christian prayer. I did not request it be stopped I simply did not participate. It bothered me for a very long time so I started to share during an open meeting, my feelings on it. I was told that I was wrong and if I wanted to really get sober I would have to turn my life over to Jesus Christ. I stopped attending this meeting as well. I now have over 7 years clean and sober and no longer attend any of the meetings in this area. I miss the meetings, but I refuse to be abused because I am not Christian. I am sure that many others who are not christian are running into the same problem in this area. Such bias in religion has no place in the meetings regardless of what the religion is. I have never had a problem with anyone sharing their faith. That is something warm and important to all the meetings. The difference is when the meeting are taken over by any one religion. ....just my biased views.. Jeanne' Re Montandon --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: THE BLACK EAGLE (1:3800/17) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGQ00000 Date: 12/03/95 From: RICHARD E. ROBBINS Time: 06:32pm \/To: ALLYSON SANDS (Read 1 times) Subj: Recovering in an alcoholic family AS> I'm not the only alcoholic in my family (grin), but I am the only AS> recovering one. So people get all hyper and wierd around me, even I am also the only recovering alcoholic in my family... and also not the only alcoholic in the family. I attended the wake for my Aunt, and there was lenty of liquor and beer availiable. I reached for the Pepsi case (which was right next to the beer) and there was general amazement when I didn't come up with beer.. I sat with my pepsi as the rest of them gave me the "fish eye", wondering why I didn't drink with them. About nine months ago I would have been drinking with them. However, due to the help of the meetings, my HP, and this echo I can face a lot of things without drinking. --- GEcho 1.02+ * Origin: Son of GRU / Ferndale, Mi / (810) 398-1638 (1:120/439) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGR00000 Date: 12/19/95 From: TOM ANDERSON Time: 02:09am \/To: WOLFMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Nude is best, no way to hide... Hello Wolfman! In a message to Tom Anderson <12/15/95> Wolfman wrote: WW> Hey, I ain't sure what is going on here, but if it is an invitation, WW> oh, never mind. Like to get nude with my wife, she enjoys it, and if WW> someone WW> else liked it as much, who could argue? WW> No never mind, just couldn't help but respond to such a blatantly obvious WW> title WW> as was yours. Love ya lots, bro. Hang in there. WW> REDWOLF We were just saying that nudists can get sober and stay sober in that enviornmemt. As for an invitation.... I always extend that invitation to anyone who wants to come visit. There are certain rules to the visit though (G). Keep Commin Back !!! TomA ... The wife of a careless man is almost a widow. --- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro * Origin: Michiana Online, Michigan City, IN (1:230/15) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGR00001 Date: 12/19/95 From: BILL MITCHELL Time: 12:40am \/To: TERRI DUVAL (Read 1 times) Subj: Is there a healthy limit TD>I didn't misplace the decimal. I didn't place one. By federal TD>regulations if your company produces any beverage that contains less TD>than 5.0% alcohol (or in terms that all of us understand... is 10 proof TD>or less) that beverage can legally be considered non-alcoholic. Read TD>the labels. Federal regulations are 1/2 of one percent, or .5%, NOT 5%. And in terms you can understand, ONE PROOF or less, NOT TEN. Your decimal point is one place to the left of where it belongs. You didn't need to place a decimal point, as percent already implies hundreths, 5%=.05, .5%=.005 --- RyPacker v2.5a * Origin: The Right Place V.34+ DS RyBBS Ft.Lee,NJ 201-947-8231 1:2604/539) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGR00002 Date: 12/20/95 From: RAIN Time: 01:31am \/To: TUTU M. (Read 1 times) Subj: Newcomer/god On 12-15-95 TUTU M. wrote to JANE KELLEY... TM> of the word, and higher power doesn't mean a god to me but I am TM> confused with TM> this, especialy reading the posts that refer to God. There.... that is Tutu, welcome. No, the program doesn't require that your Higher/ Deeper Power be God or any other deity. You will hear a lot of Godtalk in AA, and a few people may even try to bully or guilt you on the subject...but there are also plenty of longtime, happily sober AA atheists and agnostics, and don't let anyone tell you different. And no, you don't have to tackle any step before you feel ready--but if you're comfortable doing so, I'd think listening to how other people work #3 might be useful even now, as long as you don't let the occasional fanatic pressure you about what you do and don't believe. The program has no scriptures, no laws and no bosses, despite some people's desire to turn the Big Book, the usual procedures or their sponsors into those things. Certainly I encourage you to listen to how the program's winners--people with some length of sobriety and some visible serenity in their lives--got and are keeping their sobriety/serenity; I promise you, you can learn a lot from them. But one of the best things about the program is that you aren't required to work it in ways that are dishonest or impossible for you. Hang in there! --- * OFFLINE 1.58 * CULT (n.) - The church up the street from yours. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 * Origin: Louisville Hot House (1:2320/180.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGR00003 Date: 12/20/95 From: RAIN Time: 01:36am \/To: BILLY O (Read 1 times) Subj: Hello again On 12-18-95 BILLY O wrote to PAT WINSTANLEY... BO> The fool who persists in his folly shall ...... have a shop full BO> of homemade bikes. hahahahaha. Billy! Great to see you on the net again...you are missed when you're away. So w'sup witchoo, my friend? --- * OFFLINE 1.58 * Objects are just data structures with an attitude. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 * Origin: Louisville Hot House (1:2320/180.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGR00004 Date: 12/20/95 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 10:31am \/To: TUTU M. (Read 1 times) Subj: Newcomer/god TM>You mentioned going to a few third step meetings to clarify what the AA TM>meaning of higher power is? Is this right? My question is as a new person... TM>do I not tackle one step at a time, begining with the first? Or do I jump TM>around? This is of great interest to me since I am not religious in any sens TM>of the word, and higher power doesn't mean a god to me but I am confused wit TM>this, especialy reading the posts that refer to God. There.... that is TM>confusing enough, don't you think? Tutu It was designed to be confusing due to the fact that so many A.A. meetings are held in churches. It is very useful to attend discussion groups on the first three steps for some time upon entering A.A. Things will get more clear in the small group sessions where the meaning of what is in the Big Book and other A.A. literature is discussed in depth. Also, the Big Book was written in an era when it was necessary to use the word "God" and describe that later on. It is done in the Chapter to the Agnostic, in italics. Look on page 45, second paragraph. * SLMR 2.1a * If its so darn safe, why don't they let it off in Paris? --- JCQWK * Origin: The Moody Blues BBS, Graham, WA (360) 893-3101 (1:138/155) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: CGR00005 Date: 12/17/95 From: JIM TUTTLE Time: 11:40pm \/To: JOHN PIPER (Read 1 times) Subj: RA 2.50 Upgrading > When that happens, I'm sure a readme file will explain how to convert > a 2.02 setup to a 2.50 setup. Tailing on the above message, I need/want to register my v2.02, but am not sure to whom registration should be sent. Can you point me in the right direction? Also, has anyone heard if there is going to be an upgrade fee for v2.50, and if so what it'll be? I've been reading the echos for a while now, and have either missed this being asked/answered (trying to sift through the OS wars), or I was absent that day. =B-) Jim --- InterMail 2.29g * Origin: Majik Shoppe II, Wichita Falls TX, U.S.A. (1:3805/5)