--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00020 Date: 11/10/96 From: BRYAN BANKHEAD Time: 10:29pm \/To: KEVIN MORISETTE (Read 2 times) Subj: RED ALGAE KM> I change the water about every 3 weeks to a month. What percentage do you change? KM> I've checked my nitrate levels before, and they are always fine. What's fine? A number please.... When did you last check? KM> Now I'm starting to get red algae and I've never had that KM> before...what would start this all of a sudden? Something has changed. Red algae likes lower light intensity. Do you use flourescents? When did you last change them? --- This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 * Origin: PROTEAN! II BBS Baltimore, OH [614.862.6574] (1:226/1290.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00021 Date: 11/11/96 From: RON MAGED Time: 01:19pm \/To: ENRIQUE CHEUNG (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Snail EC> Can I put only 1 snail so then can't reproduce? Or are they asexual? Yeppers..they sure are. --- Renegade v5-11 Exp * Origin: The Mad Hatter's Tea Party * (602)220-9045 (1:114/506) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00022 Date: 11/11/96 From: ALLAN TOMKINSON Time: 01:51pm \/To: REESE D'ORRYCOTT (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Aquarium stand > Question; My so has managed to raise a Comet Goldfish to around > 12" in length. We're looking into buying a 55 to replace the 20 > its currently in. Just how big DO these things get? > I'd imagine not much larger than that. Biggest Koi I've seen are around 12-20 inches or so.. Being relative to koi, if not just cheap koi themselves , comets should be able to grow to about the same size. --- SLMAIL v4.5a (#0226) * Origin: The Big Byte BBS 704-279-2295 (1:379/301) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00023 Date: 11/10/96 From: ADRIAN WORLEY Time: 01:51pm \/To: JAMES MCGRAIL (Read 2 times) Subj: Aquarium stand Hi James, 07-Nov-96 05:28:00, James Mcgrail wrote to Greg Moore Subject: Aquarium stand JM> You must remember that the glass of a tank, is not touching the stand, JM> the plastic frame is. Once again I find myself asking, /what/ plastic frame. To me, an all glass tank comprises five big bits of glass, a few smaller bits around the top, and the silicone which makes it all work. JM> I've never seen a all glass tank sold without the frame, I seriously JM> doubt that any were sold like that. At least not in the US. I've had JM> tanks since they were made with iron frames, then stainless steel and JM> then the all glass. I've read many aquarium magazines, books etc and JM> never heard of the all glass, frame less tanks, or the use of foam. As I've said in previous posts, I think one reason this debate got as heated as it did, was because we are not all talking about the same thing. I don't recall seeing an all glass tank /with/ a frame for years. I, too, started with iron frames, then stainless, then 'all glass', literally. I only need to look 90 degrees to my left to see my 48x15x12 /frameless/ all glass tank sitting on its Polystyrene. All of the UK manufacturers I know of specify that the tank /must/ rest on a layer of Polystyrene. All the best, Adrian... --- Terminate 3.00 * Origin: Adrian's point. (2:252/820.9) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00024 Date: 11/10/96 From: ADRIAN WORLEY Time: 02:01pm \/To: JAMES MCGRAIL (Read 2 times) Subj: Aquarium stand Hi James, 07-Nov-96 05:33:00, James Mcgrail wrote to Greg Moore Subject: Aquarium stand GM>> If this clown (original owner) had GM>> placed a thin sheet of stryo under it I have 0 doubt he would still have GM>> the tank in use. However if he had used a properly built stand I have GM>> little doubt again it would still be in use. JM> I seriously doubt, that the end glass, cracked due to the stand. I think you may be surprised at just how well a layer of Polystyrene works. By crumpling selectively over the high stress points and settling to an even surface, a quite rough suface can be used. In my house, it is not really a problem because I can spend time setting up a good stand etc., although I /always/ put Polystyrene under the tank. I have been involved with a good few exhibitions and fish shows around the country. Often, when we arrive we are /told/ where the tanks have to go. We have had to set up, quite large display tanks, on completely inappropriate bases, however, with judicious use of Polystyrene, we have never had a tank crack or leak. All the best, Adrian... --- Terminate 3.00 * Origin: Adrian's point. (2:252/820.9) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00025 Date: 11/10/96 From: ADRIAN WORLEY Time: 02:09pm \/To: CHRIS AMENT (Read 2 times) Subj: Aquarium stand Hi Chris, 07-Nov-96 14:04:56, Chris Ament wrote to Adrian Worley Subject: Aquarium stand CA> In the case of a tank with no perimeter protection (plastic, etc) I ould CA> definetely suggest some sort of "pad" for the tank to sit on. Stryo till CA> wouldn't be my choice (maybe some planed oak strips?), but it would do CA> the job I suppose. I was becoming fairly sure we were talking about different things, because the two camps, (to use or not to use), were getting so entrenched. I can see how people with framed tanks would consider it a waste of time, but being the owner of a largeish number of tanks without frames, as is the norm here in the UK, and having a good bit of experience moving tanks around and setting up exhibitions and the like, Polystyrene, is the best material I have found for the job. Our societies display tanks have a layer of polystyrene siliconed to there bases, and a layer of plywood siliconed to that. We can then sling then around in trucks and not have to worry too much about them. All the best, Adrian... --- Terminate 3.00 * Origin: Adrian's point. (2:252/820.9) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00027 Date: 11/10/96 From: NIGEL BELL Time: 08:35pm \/To: ADRIAN WORLEY (Read 2 times) Subj: Soft Water @2:252/820.9 AW>Hi Nigel, AW>Of course I can be bothered! Its what the echo is all about. AW>I'll type it up and send it to 'All' since I believe it may AW>be of more general interest. Watch this space! AW>All the best, Adrian... Hi Adrian, I watched this space, thanks for the list, one or two plants on theire that I'm not familiar with. Hope I didn't rankle you with the bit about being bothered, it's just that in the couple of months that I've been on here you're only the third person to reply to the many messages I've sent. Not sure if my messages are getting through? or wether people just dont want to talk to me :/ thanks again, All the best Nigel. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * Email Nigel@ooh.dircon.co.uk * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.00w * Origin: Ooh! Comms, London. MULTILINE 0181-395-3108 (2:254/233) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00028 Date: 11/12/96 From: ROBERT RICE Time: 12:44am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: new stuff.... The North American Native Fishes Association (NANFA) : NANFA was founded by Aquarist who were interested in keeping, studying and raising North American Native Fish in the Aquarium. They found the North American temperate species to be excellent Aquarium species. They also found very little information available on domestic rearing or breeding so they began to share information with each other. That desire to better understand these fishes and to educate the public lead to the formation of NANFA in 1973. From that humble beginning NANFA members have branched out into a variety of activities across the continent and the world. Currently NANFA is structured very similar to The American Fisheries Society with regional chapters being the place where the bulk of the field work and interaction takes place, local meetings are the usual place where a new member gets their feet wet (in a proverbial and literal sense !). For the price of membership members also receive from the national office a quarterly magazine and a bi- monthly news letter, in addition many states have their own regional newsletter. Occassionally we send out specials issues, like our recent comprehensive (76 pg.) North American Threatened endangered list in a magazine format to all members. Even more important than where NANFA has come from is where NANFA is going. With their unique membership mix ( 1/3 Professionals - 2/3 Aquarists) NANFA is positioned to bridge two worlds historically very separated. The world of the Serious Aquarist and the Biologist ( See attached article Aquarist as a Naturalist). This combination has proven invaluable in keeping and breeding difficult Native species. A great many NANFA members are literal experts in individual species care and breeding. It's members are involved in public education , domestic propagation , endangered species propagation (see attached) , photography, and publishing. For example NANFA members regularly (authors and photographers) appear in Tropical Fish Magazines with articles about specific species and Native Fish in general, this exposure routinely nets 500,000 readers, 500,000 people who may for the first time get to see a particular Darter, Shiner or Madtom. With this increased awareness of Native Species we hope to encourage Aquarist to have a greater involvement on both local and National level environmental issues. Consider this, the financial resources of North American Aquarists is absolutely huge (over 1 billion dollars spent annually in the hobby) what if a small percentage of that money was directed to the study and preservation of Native Fishes via NANFA, AFS or other organizations with a similar agenda. The impact would be staggering, What if Aquarium clubs got involved in stream preservation ? Suddenly every mid sized town could have 50-100 new people involved on a local level ! It would be life changing for our organizations and our Native Fishes. NANFA strongly encourages it's members to participate locally whether it be a University or an Aquarium Club For instance a great many of NANFA members have had experience and success rearing and breeding unusual non game species like Darters, and Pygmy Sunfish. These individuals have historically kept their findings to themselves. While just across town a well funded State or University's project may have just begun to collect data on domestic rearing of a species filling up the tanks in someone's basement across town! Wouldn't it be more productive and much simpler if Professionals could contact Serious Aquarist via an organization with a history of documentation and success in domestic breeding of Native Species. An organization concerned about species preservation , and ecosystem integrity. That organization is NANFA , and we look forward to partnering in any way we can with the American Fisheries Society. To join NANFA Please Send : Name, Address , phone etc. and $15 (North American Members US and Canada) $17 foreign ( Everywhere else ) in US funds to Konrad Schmidt 1663 Iowa Avenue East St. Paul Minnesota 55106 Sincerely , Robert Rice Board Member, National Membership Director NANFA --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Emerald Coast/2 (1:366/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00029 Date: 11/12/96 From: ROBERT RICE Time: 12:44am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: More stuff.... From Both Sides Now, The Role of The Aquarist in Conservation Now a days when you sit and talk about the movers and shakers in the fisheries business you can bet the names Axelrod or Quinn don't come up, nor do the names of any other Aquarist. Aquarist you say, why would the name of an Aquarist come up in any serious discussion of North American Native fish ? Why not I say ? Did you know that much of the information on species across the world has been acquired by Aquarist not Scientist. In their quest to dive deeper and deeper into their obsessive hobby Aquarist have combed every continent and almost every genus in search of new specimens for their tanks. Aquarist discover species, name them,document their habits and publish their results. Go ahead and check out your libraries Aquarium section. You will be surprised. The knowledge base available is very impressive. Aquarist do so many tasks that are fundamental to good science and good resource management yet many fisheries personnel ignore them. Aquarists concentrate almost exclusively in non game species the greatest weakness of most fisheries departments yet most "Serious" fisheries staff have never even given a thought to the role of Aquarists or Aquarium study in their work. Inspite of what seems an obvious opportunity to partner there exists within the fisheries community a bias against aquarist. A sort of invisible wall that keeps US away from THEM. Many Fisheries people consider Aquarist amusing,ignorant folks who just don't know the first thing about fisheries management. Aquarist seem content to spend countless hours (and dollars) to set things up just so , all the while making no real enviromental impact. However slowly all across the continent the traditional separations are eroding. All across America , serious Aquarist are involved in the rearing and breeding of Native Fish. Sometimes in secret, often times in public. Aquarist routinely keep and breed Darters , Shiners and Sunfish. Collecting valuable information on rearing and breeding species. More and more Aquarist have become involved on the local level with various Stream Teams and other conservation movements. They have taken a proactive role in environmental preservation. How do Aquarist do that you may wonder ? How can some guy with a few fish tanks and a basement become environmentally proactive ? How does he breed a species that State and federal programs have failed at ? It's simple, Aquarist observe things from a micro perspective spending hours observing the most minute detail of fish behavior. While those in Fisheries tend to look at things at a macro level .This skill while useful for resource management, leaves them lacking when it comes to domestic rearing and propagation. A surprising amount of Aquarists are rearing,and breeding fish from all over the world with great success. Surprised ? If Aquarist can discover and rear African Cichlids of all types why not do the same with our Native species? There is so much to learn about the intricacies of breeding and rearing of a great many of our Native fishes . Aquarist could help fill in the gaps ! Up until this point the Aquarist has been an outsider looking in. Many states have placed laws on the books making collecting and keeping of North American Native Fishes difficult . The American Fisheries Society and other Organizations like the North American Native Fishes Association (NANFA) should work together with states to make collecting laws uniform and logical. A practical solution might be a simple collectors license (or stamp) that allows a creel limit without size limitations for example, the possessor could collect via hook or net 6 sunfish all species all sizes, 12 shiners or darters, and 6 roughfish. To the surprise of most people , the great majority of fish collectors are like stamp collectors . Collectors will go to great lengths and expense to find the one or two things we want. Ignoring the many other things available, a kind of catch and release collector. I have yet to see any collector do the wholesale over collecting we hear about and fear. They are as rare as the Bass Fisherman who takes every size and type of bass any way he can get them be it by hook or dynamite. I think it is past time that the serious Aquarist be welcomed to the folds of the serious fisheries groups. We have a dire and important job to do, we must not only discover and document our fishes and their behaviors. We also must deal with the increasing environmental and financial pressure on our natural resources. The scheme of things would radically change if a small percentage of the millions of aquarist began spending their time and money locally with groups and stream teams. Fisheries departments and other groups should place the welcome mat out reaching out via aquarium magazines and local aquarium groups . The increased public awareness alone would be worth the effort. Take a moment open the tent a little wider and let those folks in they are waiting. Robert Rice 2213 Prytania Circle Navarre Florida 32566 1-904-936-9261 --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Emerald Coast/2 (1:366/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 229 AQUARIUMS Ref: DFJ00030 Date: 11/12/96 From: ROBERT RICE Time: 12:51am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: TRADE TIME NANFAS ONLINE TRADING POST ALWAYS CHANGING ALWAYS GROWING: Nov. 96 EDITION....ALL TRADES SUBJECT TO STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS !!! For those people who want to hook up with other Native fishheads around the World........Anything Native Fishrelated is OK HERE........ Robert Rice-RobertRice@juno.com-----Has Flagfin shiners pygmy sunfish,redfin pickerel, longear sunfish (Kansas Subspecies) many Southern species, will trade for darters ,Blackbanded Sunfish what not....heading up a regional meeting in the spring Ray Wolff- 1150 16th St. North 8A, Wisconsin Rapids Wisconsin 54494 has TONS of Northern Midwest species , including gar, shiners darters etc...Wants many southern and unusuall species Peter Rollo--2308 Cedar Lane, Secane PA 19018- Has for sale domestic raised Banded and Black banded Sunfish, Ellasoma Evergladi (Pygmy sunfish) Jim Sternburg- 107 E Florida Ave. Urbana Ill. 61801-Has for trade only a great variety of killies and midwester shiners including Southern Redbelly Dace and many types of darters. Bill Ballard- 6811 Moss Oaks Lane Elberta Al. 36530-Has many fresh and saltwater coastal species avaliable. Including Bluespotted sunfish, flagfin shiners and a ton of killies and pygmy sunfishes... Mike Whitfield- 7005 Antler Lane Harrisson Tennessee 323421 has a variety of snubnose darters and Tennesse shiners Paul Munoz- paul.munoz@110.sunshine.com, interested in Orange spot sunfish and blackbandeds has a variety of things for sale or trade Garold Sneegas- Gsneegas@juno.com has Native fish photos avaliable for commercial use...check for avaliable species. Heads up the Kansas Region check with him for meeting times and locations. Tyson-3917 Conrad Dr. #B4 Springvalley Ca. 91971...Has a ton of Longear Sunfish (Kansas Subspecies) for trade as part of a breeding program...interested in darters and colorfull shiners... Elmer Guerri 8401 Lakewood Place., West Terre Haute Indiana 47802 heads up the regional chapter for Indiana and Illinois contact him for meeting information and contacts with those in the state. B.G. Granier has or can get F. Crysotus, L. Parva, F.Olivaceus, E. Zonatum, H. Formosa, F.grandis, A. Xenica and other species. Interested in trading for shiners not native to Lousiana. Call (504) 775-6400 or email me at bg@te6000.otc.lsu.edu Please pass this list on to other forums all ads will run for 3 months unless you otherwise request a standing order and Visit the NANFE (North American Native Fish Echo) on the fido net for more Native Fish stuff. If youd like to add yourself or change your ad on this list please forward a note to robert rice at the above e mail address.... --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Emerald Coast/2 (1:366/47)