--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAJ00000 Date: 06/13/96 From: KURT ULLMAN Time: 06:41pm \/To: ROBERT KEITH (Read 2 times) Subj: HEALTH INSURANCE RK>MSGID: 1:3603/570.0 1bc72f82 -=> Quoting Matt Smith to Kurt Ullman <=- MS> For all the liberals' gripes about MSAs, they're just another form MS> of partial self-insurance...like getting your car's comprehensive MS> a larger deductible in order to get cheaper premiums. RK>Wrong again! MSA's were vetoed because studies showed that the affluent RK>would be taking advantage of them, further reducing the Mcare pool to o RK>the poor. The idea of insurance is that a broad pool will take care of RK>those who need help. Find me just one. I have looked and looked and looked and looked and have not been able to find a study that says that in Health Affairs or the Millbank Quarterly or any other major publication that deals with the economics of healthcare. I have found quite a few PEOPLE spouting that, but never in the context of a study. The 1-2 real time expirements that I am familiar with (because I work in one of them and have access to information on the other one) haven't seen this yet. Two major problems (1). REAL small sample (2). REAL small timeframe. BTW: I have a few studies from 5 and 10 years ago screetching about *HMOs* will soon be populated by only the well and will leave the poor little sick person to rot in fee-for-service. Sounds like deja vu all over again. --- * PW * Hey!!! Who took the cork out of my lunch? * Origin: IBMNet Connection BBS, Indpls.,IN 317-882-5575 All nodes v34+ (1:231/875) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAJ00001 Date: 06/14/96 From: FRANK MASINGILL Time: 03:06am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: Nevus I had never heard this term until a few weeks ago when I was enlisted to assist, as a member of the extended family of a six-month-old infant with this condition, in searching for information on it. This baby had birthmarks both on the stomach and covering most of the left side of her face including about a third of the mouth and running up to the eye. Laser surgery has not been effective in the area of the face and the pre-cancerous condition gives the young parents (a great niece and her husband) understandable worry. I know that medicial professionals who may read this cannot give direct medical advice or prognosis but would appreciate general comments by any who are familiar with what normally is the course taken by people in such circumstances. I have promised to help the family gather information as widely as possible. My understanding is that by simply waiting there is some risk that the condition will become cancerous and dangerous. Apparently there has been removal of some of this that existed on the child's stomach area. I've been directed to some search engines on the Internet and I'm trying to learn how to unearth some information that way but I'm not yet very knowledgeable in making use of Webcrawler, etc., even though I do have access to the Free-net. I'd very much appreciate comments and experience in this area from anyone here who might offer some educated opinions. I certainly understand that these parents should rely on medical advice given to them by the doctors engaged in treating the infant. Sincerely, Frank --- FMail/386 1.02 * Origin: Maybe in 5000 years! fm01@www.gnofn.org (1:396/17.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAJ00002 Date: 06/14/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 11:16pm \/To: ROBERT KEITH (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: HEALTH INSURANCE RK> MS> I could rephrase it: RK> MS> "I give up. Those of you are well-heeled and have _cars_ and RK> are RK> MS> provided for just don't give a damn about your fellow man". RK> MS> After all, most Americans have cars, just like most Americans RK> have RK> MS> some form of health insurance...does that mean the middle class RK> owes RK> MS> the rest both cars and health insurance? RK> RK> Just what "form of health insurance" do most Americans have? Charity RK> at RK> emergency rooms? No. With even Pres. Hillary claiming only 37,000,000 are uninsured in a population of around 6+ times as many, even she's admitting most are insured! The old are insured by Medicare, the poorest by Medicaid. The middle class are insured mainly by workplace-based insurance. And don't ridicule ER charity as a form of de facto insurance. It insures _access_ to health care for millions of working-class people, mostly in that 37,000,000 "uninsured". It is so significant as a form of "insurance" that Greensboro's premier hospital has set up an outpatient clinic to keep the people involved from taking up valuable time from true emergency patients. --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAJ00003 Date: 06/14/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 11:17pm \/To: GABI FORD (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: HEALTH INSURANCE GF> MS> I've got an "organ donor" designation, but I see nothing wrong GF> with GF> org GF> GF> Oh, we have a patient with a failing liver. Would you consider GF> donating GF> yours pretty soon? If I knew I was dying from some other condition that would not affect the price I could get for that liver, I would sell it! --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAK00000 Date: 06/15/96 From: CHARLES RING Time: 10:19pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 2 times) Subj: SCHOOL PHYSICALS MW>> Examination of the genitals is an appropriate part of the MW>> "pre-sports" MW>> exam at least in male athletes to screen for inguinal hernias. To MW>> do less is incomplete. MS> I'll agree. MS> But that doesn't relate to what was done in Pennsylvania to MS> _females_! It took a while to sink in, but I'm starting to realize that this whole flap is the result of girls being subjected to the same kind of thing that has been forced on boys forever. Girls expect to be treated with respect. Boys have always known they will get none, and will be ridiculed if they imagine otherwise. I am referring to the _manner_ of the exams, not their content. --- * Origin: W3NU in Sharon, PA; formerly WA8VNU in Niles, Ohio (1:2601/100) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAK00001 Date: 06/15/96 From: PHIL THWING Time: 12:54am \/To: THOMAS ENGELHARDT (Read 2 times) Subj: GUTEN ABEND! TE> Following very interested your dialog (as one of "some doctors" TE> myself) I found: PT>>There is the National Practitioners Data Bank.... TE> so my fingers are typing in my very awful English from small far old TE> Germany: gratulation! I just came back from Deutschland where I was with the american Air Force at Sembach Air Base (nahe Kaiserslautern, in der Pfalz). Your English is certainly better than my German. I really miss living over there - what a fantastic country to live in, especially this time of year!! TE> I'd like to have one here! Thats great! I'll try TE> to get a politician establishing such an Data Bank of german doctors. That would be a good thing. From what I saw, the patients don't stand up for themselves at all in Europe and a bad physician would go unnoticed for a long time. TE> I'm listening nearby daily to legitimate complaining patients... TE> ...what shall I do? The next doctor I'd trying could be the same way, TE> whom can I believe?".... So I mean, a neutral pool of TE> informations could be helpful indeed. But Germany and its physicians TE> are much rather conservative not only in that respect. They certainly are conservative there! Sometimes I wish medicine in America were more like it is for you where the patient just says "Yes sir" and does what you tell him instead of questioning everything and telling you which medicine to use. All that educating we do is time consuming and sometimes very tiring. TE> So long TE> Thomas. Tschuess! Phil ... If everything seems to be going just right, check your zipper. * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW01517 --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 5 * Origin: Private Connection BBS 1:3642/803 (1:3642/803) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAL00000 Date: 06/15/96 From: ROBERT KEITH Time: 08:18am \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 2 times) Subj: HEALTH INSURANCE -=> Quoting Matt Smith to Robert Keith <=- MS> Admit it, you just want the middle class held as _hostages_! MS> And face it, who's more likely to have a high deductible to save MS> money on his car insurance...the rich you hate! No! I don't want anyone held as hostages! And I don't HATE the rich. Envy perhaps, but the present system is tilted heavily in favor of the rich. It should be corrected and they should pay their fair share. ... When a politician pats you on the back, check your wallet! --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Tampa Bay Computer Society BBS (813) 733-8693 V.34/V.FC (1:3603/570) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAM00000 Date: 06/16/96 From: GABI FORD Time: 03:50am \/To: THOMAS ENGELHARDT (Read 2 times) Subj: Some Doctors TE>nearby daily to legitimate complaining patients, wich got bad or TE>insuffizient treatments or informations and are telling: what shell I do, TE>the next doctor I'd trying cuold be in the same way, whome can I believe?" TE>and its very hard for me handle with that but without getting unjust to TE>the colleague! So I mean, a neutral pool of informations could be helpful TE>indeed. But Germany and its physicians are much rather conservative not TE>only in that respect. It's no different in this country. Doctors do not like to say anything negative about a colleague. Therefore, the patient who has a legitimate complaint goes to see a lawyer instead. :) TE> * Origin: Ein Sachse (2:2455/140.35) Ach, sie gommen ueberall rum, huh? :) * SLMR 2.1 * California Ueber Alles --- FMail/386 1.02 * Origin: The House of Cards, Eugene, OR - 1.541.688.5635 (1:152/19) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAM00001 Date: 06/16/96 From: GABI FORD Time: 03:50am \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 2 times) Subj: Matt Gives It Up MS>GF> MS> I've got an "organ donor" designation, but I see nothing wrong MS>GF> MS>GF> Oh, we have a patient with a failing liver. Would you consider MS>GF> donating MS>GF> yours pretty soon? MS> If I knew I was dying from some other condition that would not affect th MS>price I could get for that liver, I would sell it! I thought you were a "donor"? Donating is not selling. Anyhow, can you just do it fast...donate it or sell it or whatever. Just do it. * SLMR 2.1 * Dead people are cool. --- FMail/386 1.02 * Origin: The House of Cards, Eugene, OR - 1.541.688.5635 (1:152/19) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 228 GRAND ROUNDS Ref: DAM00002 Date: 06/16/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 05:25pm \/To: CHARLES RING (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: SCHOOL PHYSICALS CR> MS> But that doesn't relate to what was done in Pennsylvania to CR> MS> _females_! CR> CR> It took a while to sink in, but I'm starting to realize that this CR> whole CR> flap is the result of girls being subjected to the same kind of thing CR> that CR> has been forced on boys forever. Girls expect to be treated with CR> respect. CR> Boys have always known they will get none, and will be ridiculed if CR> they CR> imagine otherwise. That's not at all what I'm saying. Exams of kids trying out for a varsity football team are necessarily of _boys_, and hernia-related items are a part of the exam in a way that they wouldn't be for a general student physical. I just question whether public schools have any right to do physicals that include genital exams on kids of _either_ sex without informed consent from both parent and kid. --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6)