--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGX00001 Date: 12/26/95 From: JAN THOMAS Time: 03:16pm \/To: TOM WEISS (Read 5 times) Subj: Concrete perches -> Yep. Design concept is complete. Just need some design parameters -> from Fran. Need to balance the heat input with the heat losses. I -> need her max temperature of perch and minimum outdoor design -> temperatures. That will determine the watts needed for the tape. -> How many gross you gonna buy? ;) Hey Tom, I only have two birds, four feet total! Need an experimental Carolina site for your invention? Now if I could just get Charlie to build the outdoor aviary to put the fabulous warm toes perch in. :*/ TTYL, Jan --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 5 * Origin: Carolina Forum -- Charlotte NC (1:379/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGX00002 Date: 12/26/95 From: JAN THOMAS Time: 03:28pm \/To: ELVIS HARGROVE (Read 5 times) Subj: Amazons -> And it's still like that down there in places. (That's what the big -> boys tell me anyhow....) Parrots are only scarce on THIS side of the -> river. Sad. Were there ever native parrots down your way? There used to be a beautiful one here, the Carolina parakeet, now extinct. Que lastima! -> Speaking about parrot's native tongue? I always wished I knew what -> all my Lilac Crown said. He could talk up a storm in Spanish. When -> he heard trumpet music (Mariachis) he's talk a streak! Typical Amazon behavior- don'cha just love 'em? That is, when they're not driving you crazy. I've been having a lot of talks lately with Zigs about the problem of her decibel competition with the vacuum cleaner. AAAARGH! belated Feliz Navidad, Jan --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 5 * Origin: Carolina Forum -- Charlotte NC (1:379/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGX00003 Date: 12/26/95 From: TOM WEISS Time: 05:33pm \/To: KATHY JOHNSON (Read 5 times) Subj: Concrete perches On 12-2095, KATHY JOHNSON wrote to TOM WEISS: Hey I believe that no good comes from inhaling poop dust. Certainly not my idea of a good sniff ... but where's the data? It's the data I'm after ... not hearsay. KJ> Not chemicals, Tom--poop dust contains bacteria, which *can* cause KJ> lung irritation or infection in some people if inhaled. Not KJ> everybody is sensitive to it, but in those who *are*, inhalation can KJ> cause the famous "bird-keeper's lung" disease. Inhaling poop dust is KJ> also the easiest way to transmit/acquire Psittacosis/chlamydia if KJ> the bird happens to be a carrier/shedder. No chemicals -- dust is a mechanical problem for the lungs and bacteria biological problem that harbors on dust. For that matter, house dust is likely to NOT be beneficial ... what I'm wondering just what is the Threshold Limit Values (TLV) and the Time Weighted Average (TWA) exposure for harm? All foreign bodies in the body do harm ... just a matter of how much harm and to how many people. Suspect the data is hard to come by. KJ> Best to not press the points by inhaling any more dropping dust than KJ> is absolutely necessary--why tempt fate? Agreed. === * Freddie 1.2.5 * --- DB B2300sl/002493 * Origin: Wolverine (1:239/1004) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGX00004 Date: 12/26/95 From: TOM WEISS Time: 05:39pm \/To: KATHY JOHNSON (Read 5 times) Subj: Good folks On 12-2095, KATHY JOHNSON wrote to TOM WEISS: KJ> Great! Keep us posted on "her" progress? Plan on doing a DNA sexing KJ> soon so we know what your first grand-bird really is? Yep will do as time permits. Busy time with 3 hour feedings and with family here for Christmas ... She (Tinker, the baby African Grey) is for sale so I see no reason for sexing. If I were to keep 'her' for breeding, I'd have kept her with her parents for much longer ... as luck will have it, I've concluded had we done that she'd would not have lived. It appears the parents weren't doing their job. She came out of the nest underweight and about one week (as best I can determine) behind in developement. And me, who has never hand fed before. Claire, Fran and Bird Talk certainly got me through the rough times. We're almost outta the woods now ... still can't get too comfortable. Learned a "ton" about birds in the process. KJ> ...If you get me a photo, I can scan it and add it to my Web page. KJ> I'm considering adding a small area for "Parrots" folks' bird KJ> pictures. Whatdya think? Photo? Yep ... being developed with Christmas pics. 'She' was born on Thanksgiving after 2 + years of trying ... wotta Christmas! I don't think I have your address ... can you email it to tomweiss@eworld.com? Thanks. === * Freddie 1.2.5 * --- DB B2300sl/002493 * Origin: Wolverine (1:239/1004) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGX00005 Date: 12/26/95 From: TOM WEISS Time: 06:36pm \/To: KATHY JOHNSON (Read 5 times) Subj: Chick production rates. On 12-2095, KATHY JOHNSON wrote to TOM WEISS: KJ> I also know local folks who have no problems with their birds' KJ> reproductive rates--it's a random problem, from what I can see hmmm random problem ... must be based on something ... could those with low production rates be very liberal (tolerant of nonproducers)? Whereas those who turn a profit in a business get rid of dead wood ... KJ> As for Blynn/Voren, I think they KJ> have tons more birds than 'real' people do, so their rates are KJ> artificially higher than normal due to population.....if they have a KJ> few pairs that don't breed, they can afford to mix/match/switch/sell KJ> and still maintain a good production rate from the rest of the KJ> flock. Makes perfect sense and begs the need for a "problem bird broker" here for us small fry hobbiest breeders ... a broker who would play matchmaker, screen disease out, and other bad risk reasons for us to not want to trade into a productive pair. === * Freddie 1.2.5 * --- DB B2300sl/002493 * Origin: Wolverine (1:239/1004) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGX00006 Date: 12/26/95 From: TOM WEISS Time: 06:41pm \/To: DIANE WINER (Read 5 times) Subj: Concrete perches On 12-2395, DIANE WINER wrote to TOM WEISS: TW> OK. But where's the proof? I believe you, but data please. DW> It is true, I worked as an RN for a Dr. that had training in DW> infectious diseases at CDC. We had a patient no other Dr. in town DW> could find out what the problem was. The patient was referred to us DW> and Dr. McGehee picked the DX right up. Lung disease from pigeon DW> droppings that had dropped down the chimmney of her fireplace. DW> DW> Any more proof needed? Yep. You provided ONE data point. In counter I offer this story: At work in a new chemical process the chemical operators were all coming down with colds -- respiratory problems. Since nearly all (certainly more than ONE) had the same symptoms they proposed it was the chemicals causing the problem. A medical team was formed to study the problem. Their conclusions -- common colds - all of em. The lady with poop dust in the fireplace may have had allergies, or a near case of some other respiratory problem (emphysema for example). Pigeon poop dust for your patient was a real problem ... I do believe that. A more complete study with a greater population would be of more interest to me. DW> Congratulations on the new baby. I am envious. A wee one to cuddle DW> and love. I would like to take bets on this one leaving Tom, any DW> takers? Tom can't you give your wife something in exchange for DW> letting you keep the baby? Thanks. Give my wife more? Whew! She now owns half of OUR possessions and my past, present and future life ... nothing else I can yield. The bird is for sale. Since she is so small, Tinkers nickname is becoming Tinker BELLE . === * Freddie 1.2.5 * --- DB B2300sl/002493 * Origin: Wolverine (1:239/1004) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGZ00000 Date: 12/23/95 From: JERRY RUDOFF Time: 02:54pm \/To: CHERANE TRAJERE (Read 5 times) Subj: BIRD SECURITY -> JR>to beams because with birds and other animals you usually get many -> JR>"false alarms".. ->> Not so, they are alarmed only after dark when my feathered kids are ->> asleep. With lights, the beams I also don't have a raccoon problem. Regardless of when you arm you system, beams are more susceptible to falsing than other type of sensors. Critters outside an aviary can be a big problem. Rather than an alarm hooked to a beam, I recommend a light hooked to a sensor for outside to discourage stray animals. One can also install an outer perimeter fence with a low electrical charge to discourage strays. Works for me! --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Crime Bytes: Take A MegaByte Out of Crime 1:135/5 (1:135/5.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGZ00001 Date: 12/23/95 From: JERRY RUDOFF Time: 02:59pm \/To: TOM WEISS (Read 5 times) Subj: Concrete perches -> Jerry, chorine is used for disenfecting water ... I use it when I -> camp. It is part of the instructions for use with my backpacking -> Chlorine has it faults and it's good points. Prudent use of -> chloine can be an asset. Yes Tom and I think you hit the word right on the head, PRUDENT...This is not a treatment I utilize daily. I do it periodically and usually only in the summer months when bacterial growth abound here. Like life, anything in excess can have more harm than good. Happy Holiday --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Crime Bytes: Take A MegaByte Out of Crime 1:135/5 (1:135/5.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGZ00002 Date: 12/26/95 From: KATHY JOHNSON Time: 09:47am \/To: SUE TURO (Read 5 times) Subj: Mail...;-) > This ia a test...seems that my mail doesn't get to you folks....;-) I wondered where you'd been--have you talked to your sysop about mail transfers to make sure your mail is going out? > Since you last received a post from me...I've acquired a Peach > face lovebird...his name is GT (Green Thing) who thinks he is an > Africian Grey.... Green Thing, huh? That's cute! Congrats on the new baby! > and had to return Princess...was allergic to her.... You were allergic to one tiel but not the other? That's very unusual. How did your doctor determine this? What's the breeder going to do with Princess? >and got another grey 'teil...;-) His/her name is Cry > Baby....the breeder called it Crier and I didn't like > that....now to the problem....this 'teil is lighter than Scoobie > and the underside of the tail is striped...it is 8 months > old...and sings and talks like champ....is it possible for it to > be a female???? Still possible--some birds molt their baby feathers later than others. Light vs dark grey in tiels means nothing--I often see a difference even between babies in the same clutch. --Kathy * SLMR 2.1a * --- Silver Xpress Mail System * Origin: bloom county bbs * Parrots HQ * (313)582-0888 (1:2410/400) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 225 PARROTS Ref: CGZ00003 Date: 12/26/95 From: KATHY JOHNSON Time: 10:28am \/To: TOM WEISS (Read 5 times) Subj: Concrete perches > TW> While I understand your concern, it's not yet proven (to me) > TW> that poop dust is harmful. > CC> Tom, it's certain. You (and the birds) do not want to breathe it. > CC> That is the main reason to clean cages really (other than the fact > CC> that they look better). >OK. But where's the proof? I believe you, but data please. Uh, Tom? How do I put this? You're making it sound like you WANT to sniff bird poop dust! What kind of data do you need? Common sense should tell you all you need to know. I can't quote chapter and verse of a written document (can't find anything written about it right this minute), but see if the following makes sense to you. Think about it--poop always contains bacteria, and also possibly viruses and/or internal parasites; all 3 of these are capable of encysting and surviving outside the host (depending, of course, on which kind of infectious agent is being shed). Many of the bacteria, and a few of the parasites and viruses can also infect humans. The waste portion of the dropping itself is certainly not meant to be inhaled, and acts as a foreign body irritant to the lining of the lungs. To the otherwise healthy casual bird owner, this might never be a problem. But to anyone whose lungs are compromised by any other kind of illness, allergy, or just plain advanced age, the dust can be devastating. Lung problems can also develop in people who are healthy but are regularly exposed to high quantities of dust (owners of large indoor aviaries, for example). Thankfully this illness doesn't appear incredibly often, But it is a risk bird owners should be aware of. --Kathy * SLMR 2.1a * --- Silver Xpress Mail System * Origin: bloom county bbs * Parrots HQ * (313)582-0888 (1:2410/400)