--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00137Date: 04/29/98 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 12:21am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH Jane Kelley (On 27 Apr 98) said this..? to Alan Rackmill JK> And Ritalin and other forms of speed are one of them. MPH is _not_ 'speed'. If you insist on comparing different drugs at least refrain from using street names. AR> Alcoholism is NOT ADHD. You keep bringing everything back to drug AR> use and/or abuse. You refuse to give creedence to any other AR> possibile cause, and THAT is unconsionsiable.(sp). JK> Since I found one expert who states that children who take Ritalin are JK> three times more likely to use cocaine later in life, yeah. That is simply hearsay. If you have found such an 'expert' why not post who it is, where you found the information and give a citation that the rest of us can go to and read for ourselves. JK> When you food around with drugs without knowing what you are doing, JK> then expect the weirdest possible results. That is why those of us who have chosen drug therapy as part of an overall program have the program overseen by a physician. This is something that has been said to you over and over. You keep ignoring it ... why? JK> I haven't the faintest idea what causes ADD and ADHD. But....I spend That's not news Jane. We've been telling you that for a couple of years; nice to see you admit it though. JK> time looking for articles from people who might. I read at least two JK> newspapers daily on line and have several email services that put new JK> articles in mine daily. Reading all of that takes me around 3 or 4 JK> hours a day. Newspapers, in print or online, are unacceptable sources of 'expert' opinion. That they might lead one to further research is the best, IMNSHO, that can be expected. Information on Listserv's should also be taken with a grain of salt but are, mostly, better than print media. If you ever want to make a contribution to this echo that has any credibility you should take the extra step necessary to find out what you are talking about. JK> What I have found out is that some of the worst possible "mental JK> health" is being practiced on kids in this nation. Some _specific_ examples of that relevant to this echo would be ... What?? CITE..CITE...CITE! Just because "Jane says so" will _never_ be adequate. ... Pandora's Law: Never open a box you didn't close yourself --- PPoint 2.03 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/100.8) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00138Date: 04/29/98 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 07:17am \/To: SHARYN NOAKES (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH SN> JK> Since I found one expert who states that children who take Ritalin are SN> JK> three times more likely to use cocaine later in life, yeah. It oes SN> JK> around and around. SN> Oh really???? Name this so called expert Jane...my child has been SN> on Ritalin since she was 7 years old...she's 20 now and I can tell SN> you now that what you have just said is full of B.S. You know..you SN> are a very sick person...you need help... Since you can find the article for yourself at http://www.infobeat.com/ stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2553760063-350, source Reuters from "New Scientist", you can also write me an appology as soon as you have downloaded it. This is from a 1995 study by Nora Volkow, director of nuclear medicine at the Brookhaven national Laboratory in Upton, New York. There are two more studies, one by Susan Schenk, and another by nadine Lambert. But read the one page article for yourself. Then decide just how sick YOU are and do something about it. Instead of blasting away at me in ignorance. --- * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00139Date: 04/29/98 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 07:22am \/To: SHARYN NOAKES (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH SN> JK> and I quote: "Research sugguest an underactivity of the dopamine SN> system a SN> JK> the most likely cause of the problem. Dopamine is a eurotransmitter SN> in SN> JK> the brain which is necessary for normal cerebral activity." SN> This is a "chemical" problem Yes, it is. And one common to quite a few behavior problems unsolved today after years of Skinner's theories on behavior modicifcation. However, once the principles of the chemical imbalance are found and treated, the problems are much less. Incidently, that is just what the damn pills do, dearie. Treat the chemical imbalance. SN> JK> "Attention Deficit Disorder is the new name for hyperactivity SN> syndrome. SN> ADD is a Neuroligical problem..."Not" a chemical "dopamine".. Sharyn, you do not have the faintest clue as to what you are writing about here. Your time would be much better spent finding a way to get into the Internet and locating the recent articles that explain all of this very well instead of just blasting away at me in your apparent frustration in not understanding a word of what I write. There are always those who oppose any change and your attitude is all too common among those who treat these so called mental illlnesses also. --- * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00140Date: 04/29/98 From: JASON SEIPLE Time: 05:03pm \/To: MARIE WEIDEMANN (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Ritalin and NIMH MW> JS> How would ADD be deadly? I am curious. MW> MW> Ed is a personal friend of mine so if I may..he was refering to the MW> "combination" of all the things above..Ed is/was affected with all of them MW> and came very close to dying...several times..sucide thoughts were the MW> least of these close calls..A person that does not get the help that he/sh MW> needs can be driven to taking their own life in the mistaken belief here MW> is no help... WOW.. I just heard a little bit of myself in that.... --- Join League 94 * Origin: Rangers of Midnight BBS 770-944-8870 Mableton, Ga. (1:133/8870) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00141Date: 04/29/98 From: CAROL SHENKENBERGER Time: 05:26pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Ritalin and NIMH *** Quoting Jane Kelley from a message to Carol Shenkenberger *** CS> Jane, dyslexia is not related to drug abuse. It shows clear genetic CS> tracking n some cases, and in others is often related to 'difficult CS> birth' (long labor). xxcarol JK> Carol, it can also run in families with a history of chemical dependen JK> with no other causation noted. Jane, give your theories to someone who will believe them. Personally, I think you are clutching at straws because you so badly want to believe all problems are caused by pregnant mothers abusing substances. As to dyslexia running genetically tracked in families with chemical dependancies, I am sure it's possible to have *both* problems. Dont mistakenly believe that to mean more than it does. It's no more related than blue eyes and being able to sing well. xxcarol --- Telegard v3.09.b17 * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS Norfolk VA 757-486-3057 28.8 Dual (1:275/100) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00142Date: 04/29/98 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 10:02am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH Jane Kelley (On 28 Apr 98) said this..? to Bob Moylan JK> Except that you refuse to take a look at the ultimate cause of JK> problems such as ADD, addiction, pathological gambling, and JK> others....brain chemistry which is less than perfect. That is not precisely correct. I have "taken a look" at ADs; and continue to do so. As for the others, I have no personal interest in or concern for them. JK> Addiction and ADD ARE related, like it or not. Perhaps in some instances; you overgeneralize. JK> I refer you and the JK> other skeptics to these two sites for more information: JK> www.sigmaxi.org/amsci/articles/96articles/Blum-full.html Okay this URL is slightly different from your previous rendition of it that led no place. JK> and www.addclinic-az-nm.com/ There is very little of substance at this web site. It is a blatant advertisement by the three individuals mentioned of the services they offer. I would in turn refer you to: http://www.amenclinic.com. Check it out and get back to me with your perceptions. JK> And we also know that children given Ritalin are three times more JK> likely to develop cocaine addiction in later life. No, we do not KNOW that. You repeat this as if it were proven and documented. If you have some evidence please reveal your source(s). JK> Unless one knows very well what one is doing, boosting one JK> neurotransmitter may unbalance that delicate brain chemistry even JK> further. The key word in that is 'may'. If you have some evidence please reveal your source(s). JK> AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE PILLS SUCH AS RITALIN AND PROZAC JK> DO! Shouting does not mean you are correct or know what you are talking about. If you have some evidence please reveal your source(s). --- PPoint 2.03 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/100.8) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00143Date: 04/29/98 From: VALERIE JOHNSON Time: 05:09pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH AR> JK> You can't. I can do a complete history and find out the odds in the AR> JK> family history that indicate possible problems with certain drugs. JK> AR> JK> And Ritalin and other forms of speed are one of them. JK> AR> JK> They should not be given as lightly as they are in this nation! JK> AR> Alcoholism is NOT ADHD. You keep bringing everything back to drug AR> use and/or abuse. You refuse to give creedence to any other AR> possibile cause, and THAT is unconsionsiable.(sp). JK> JK> Since I found one expert who states that children who take Ritalin are JK> three times more likely to use cocaine later in life, yeah. It goes JK> around and around. JK> JK> When you food around with drugs without knowing what you are doing, then JK> expect the weirdest possible results. JK> JK> I haven't the faintest idea what causes ADD and ADHD. But....I spend ime JK> looking for articles from people who might. I read at least two JK> newspapers daily on line and have several email services that put new JK> articles in mine daily. Reading all of that takes me around 3 or 4 ours JK> a day. JK> JK> What I have found out is that some of the worst possible "mental health" JK> is being practiced on kids in this nation. That I consider criminal. JK> JK> --- JK> * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) JK> hey jane where is the source you are talking about at --- Shotgun v1.38a * Origin: *Comp_Cont*Sprngfld, MO*(417)889-3653* (1:284/30) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00144Date: 04/30/98 From: BUTCH WALKER Time: 06:14am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH Just what is it about my telling you to drop this that you don't understand? This is your last warning. Knock it off or I'll have your access to this conference cut. Is there anything about that you don't understand? --- * Origin: Nerd's Nook Point #1 (1:157/2.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00145Date: 04/29/98 From: MARIE WEIDEMANN Time: 05:20pm \/To: ALAN RACKMILL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Ritalin and NIMH Alan Rackmill - The gentle rain whispered your name to me... ES> I know from personal experience that ADHD, ADD, Alcoholism, Drug ES> adictions, and/or mental illness can be deadly to a person, if ES> not correctly treated. PK> Do you seriosly know somone who has died from ADD? AR> Yes, I do know of people dying from ADD. AR> Not being able to concentrate can be deadly in many instances. AR> And many accidents are a result of loss of concentration. One of my grandsons has ADHD and ODD..He has no fear of anything..He will climb out a second story window if allowed..run in the street.. grab hot pots, grab knives...all of this is very dangerous and could result in great harm if not watched all the time..So, yes..a person could get badly hurt or even killed from this type of lack of control. PK> Is Ritlin The Awnser? My opinion is NO! AR> And you have medical experience to back up this claim? I always thought that it was up to a licensed doctor to decide things like this.. Marie W. ... GIVE: Support the helpless victims of computer error. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Phoenix Rising*Wilkes-Barre PA*Starwitch (717)822-2017 (1:268/442) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00146Date: 04/29/98 From: MARIE WEIDEMANN Time: 05:20pm \/To: JASON SEIPLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Ritalin and NIMH Jason Seiple - The gentle rain whispered your name to me... JS> Thank you for clarifying that for me. I know many people whose parents e JS> NOT into drugs who had offspring with ADD. ES> ES> No Problem. It's the lack of intelligent information that has a endency ES> annoy me. Especially when it comes from someone who claims to be in the ES> of medicine. I find it disturbing knowing that someone is in the urrent ES> practice of medicine, making statements of this caliber. I causes great ES> concern to me, for I am fearful that the misinformation can result in re ES> distress for the families of the individuals that are being treated by h ES> Not discluding the fact the very life of the person whom is being reated ES> also be in jeopardy. This is truly what worries me. ES> ES> I know from personal experience that ADHD, ADD, Alcoholism, Drug diction ES> and/or mental illness can be deadly to a person, if not correctly eated JS> How would ADD be deadly? I am curious. Because of the lack of control that affects some children with ADD and ADHD..my one grandson has no fear of *anything*..he is seven years old and just does not realize that certain things are dangerous..he tried to smash his head into glass windows..or into walls..he runs into the street no matter how busy it might be (we live in a small city with lots of traffic)..he has no concept of what *hot* really means..nor does he care.. he has to be supervised all the time..and even then, can wind up hurting himself or his younger sister.. So it can be deadly to young children or even older children who have no concept of danger.. Marie W. ... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Phoenix Rising*Wilkes-Barre PA*Starwitch (717)822-2017 (1:268/442)