--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F4G00016Date: 04/11/98 From: KALERA ASHLEY Time: 06:31am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Ritalin and NIMH JK> KA> known to CIBA-Geigy or the government. JK> KA> Anecdotal evidence by you about people you know who knew someone JK> KA> who was addicted is absolutely worthless. If these people actually JK> KA> existed, than the professionals involved should have reported JK> KA> the case of addiction, which information CIBA-Geigy is then required JK> KA> by law to make known to the interested public and to the medical JK> KA> profession. JK> JK> And do tell me exactly how a professional who hasn't the faintest idea of * JK> addiction looks like reports it to anyone? JK> JK> Why do you think it is called a disease of denial? And that the denial of t JK> average so called professional exceeds that of most of the victims? Doctors, especially psychiatrists, are trained to recognize addiction and Ritalin must be closely monitored due to federal laws restricting its use. In order to get a refill, the patient has to have a doctor visit. Your logic is such that no one would ever be able to get medical treatment or anything whatsoever without running the gauntlet of a full staff of addiction specialists first. That's ridiculous. And if professionals are so sketchy, according to you, why should we trust *your* professionals and not our own doctors, who know us? Are you aware that in the doses in which Ritalin is normally prescribed for ADHD, you would have to swallow half a bottle to get any kind of euphoric effect or "rush"? And that the patient would then have to wait a full month before the doctor would prescribe more? The stretches of plausibility to which you go in an attempt to prove that stimulant treatment for ADHD is dangerous and bad are ridiculous. They make you look like a doddering old mare. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: (1:105/215) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F4G00017Date: 04/11/98 From: KALERA ASHLEY Time: 06:31am \/To: ERIC RENFRO (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: ADHD in adults. ER> I'm wondering if anyone here knows anything about ADHD in adults, age 30+ o ER> so. The doctors around here in California laugh when my g/f says she has AD ER> I don't get it, but I know I am ADHD, and she has the same symptoms of it. ER> just don't know what to do to get her the help she needs. ER> ER> Anyone, HELP? :) Well, I'm an adult with ADHD, but my situation was a little different because I was diagnosed at a much younger age than your girlfriend. Still, I have some ideas for you. Most doctors don't do much to continue their medical education in areas outside of their specialties or particular fields of interest, so it's no surprise that you're running into a lot of MDs who aren't aware that grown women can have ADHD. They didn't teach it in medical school, therefore to hem it doesn't exist. What I suggest is to start searching for a doctor, preferably a psychiatrist, who has actual *experience* with ADHD. (Yes, the dreaded "doctor shopping!") That way, your girlfriend will have the benefit of going to somebody who nows what to look for and is (hopefully) current with the literature. You might have to start by calling pediatricians, because those who treat it in hildren are more likely to know someone who treats it in adults. If you just plain can't find someone who is experienced with ADHD, you might have to "create-your-own" specialist by finding a psychiatrist who is willing to believe that it exists in adults and talking him/her into researching it. Then you'll have to wait a couple of months to give your psychiatrist time to learn all this new stuff, but in the end you should have someone who is competent to evaluate your girlfriend for ADHD. And look at it this way; it might feel a little odd for you to be leading our doctor by the hand in this, but in the end you'd be benefiting not only yourself but the whole community because the next time an adult needed to be evaluated for ADHD, you would have created the resource that enabled them to do so! --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: (1:105/215) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F4G00018Date: 04/11/98 From: MARK LEWIS Time: 08:47pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH KA>> I've never been to a doctor's office that did not, upon the KA>> first visit, proffer a long double-sided questionairre for KA>> the purpose of determining medical history in the patient KA>> and immediate family. This includes questions about drug use. ml>> how many people do you know that really are completely truthful when ml>> answering those questions??? especially those about drug use?? to ml>> admit to using illegal drugs is to open one's self to possible ml>> prosecution and i don't know anyone who is willing to go thru that... BM> How many people do you know that actually lie to their doctor BM> or withhold information that could be essential to treating BM> their complaint? quite a few, believe it or not... many folks do not believe that some things they do could interfer with medications or cause symptoms that appear to be one thing when they are actually something else... BM> Doctors are not usually in the business of referring their BM> patients to law enforcement agencies based on information BM> provided in a document that is covered under physician/patient BM> confidentially rules. not all of it... they are also required to notify the authorities in certain cases, among which are illegal drug use in some areas... KA>> Perhaps you are choosing negligent doctors? ml>> and perhaps you are wearing blinders... small ones but blinders ml>> nonetheless... ml>> i'm not supporting anyone with these comments. BM> Oh...your words have a different appearance. you've not seen my recent message just posted a short while ago, yet... my point with the above is that we each have different experiences and training... some are in conflict with what others have experienced or have been taught... my point is also that instead of being so insistant that we are correct all the time, maybe we also need to open our eyes, ears and hearts to the fact that others may also be right on the same case... ml>> they are only stated in order to open one's eyes that there are ml>> other possibilities and/or explanations... BM> If you have been lurking here 4+ years you should know that BM> there aren't many (if any) who dispute that there are 'other BM> possibilities and/or explanations'. The most frequent BM> 'possibility' and most frequent 'explanation' is that ADD/ADHD BM> was not the problem as determined by a thorough medical work BM> up. "Nurse" Kelley just doesn't happen to have knowledge of BM> either other possibilities or explanations. To her everything BM> either is or it isn't so based on her own personal experiences BM> or, more often, hearsay, spurious studies that no one has ever BM> been able to replicate and sales pitches from here today gone BM> tomorrow web sites. i know exactly what you are saying and understand fully... in fact, i believe that i agree with it ;-) BM> What is your interest in ADs? i believe that i have or had AD when i was younger... i am also aware that i have been experiencing the same symptoms that my sister has been diagnosed with as hypoglycemia but i don't know that that is what i am experiencing... only that the descriptions of the "feeling" is about the same... there are times when my job gets very hectic and i'm under extreme pressure to get something done by a specific time and it is those times that my brain goes into an overload condition and i literally run around like a chicken with my head cut off... during these times, my brain is extremely overactive and i have no control over my concentration (if that sounds right)... it is when i realize what's happening that i force myself to stop and take several deep breaths to regain control of my self... someone one described it "like fireworks going off in the brain"... yeah, its a pretty "light show" but i can't have it happening when i need to be fully cognizant of what i'm doing... also both of my sons, 16 and 10, have been (in my mind) "forced" to take ritlan... one school has even stated that if my youngest wasn't put on ritlan that either we would have to take him out of school or come sit in classes with him all day... i don't know what my oldest went thru because i've only had custody of him for the last 6 months. previous to that, we've had no real relationship... the real stink of all this is that i CANNOT believe that our society has this thing about "say no to drugs" but then all the doctors (and others) want to do it to shove drugs down our throats and then more drugs to counter the sideffects and so on and so on etc... when are they going to stop practising and get down to doing the "work" ??? sorry, yes, i have a lot of animosity about a lot of things and it's one of the reasons why i try to be as open minded and look at others points of view... FWIW: i have not seen a doctor since 1982 when i got out of the USAF other than one time when my feet got crushed under a car... i have had back problems that they have insisted on surgery for and i have never had but instead have utilized "self healing" and meditation for. i was told several years ago that i was lucky if i'd be able to walk (ruptured disk 5th lumbar area IIRC and major nerve pinch) much onlger but 6 months later, there was no evidence of any rupture or other damage. there are times when i have to take things easy and do some more self healing but they are few and far between these days... i guess i have more passion against ms. kelly due to her background and her insistence that she is correct in the many thing sshe says... however, i am also very capable of seeing her point and understanding that she can only portray her experiences and understandings... at times, i appear to be "attacking those on my side" (please note the quotes) when in fact i'm attacking the status quo and those who believe so deeply in it that nothing else can penetrate their facades... does this make sense? i sure hope so... there's a LOT more i would have liked to say but there's not enough time nor is this the right time... much will come in the future but when we won't know until it is upon us... )\/(ark * Origin: (1:3634/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00000Date: 04/13/98 From: VALERIE JOHNSON Time: 06:18pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH well my father was an alcoholic s s --- ProBoard v2.16 [Reg] * Origin: Gameland BBS (417)859-3438 Marshfield, Mo. (1:284/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00001Date: 04/13/98 From: VALERIE JOHNSON Time: 06:19pm \/To: SHARYN NOAKES (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH I have it to and the first day i logged on she attacked everybody she says she is 70 years old what ever --- ProBoard v2.16 [Reg] * Origin: Gameland BBS (417)859-3438 Marshfield, Mo. (1:284/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00002Date: 04/13/98 From: VALERIE JOHNSON Time: 07:20pm \/To: SHARYN NOAKES (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH thank you sharon for saying that you arent the only one who is tired of her my mom didn't drink when she had but my dad did --- ProBoard v2.16 [Reg] * Origin: Gameland BBS (417)859-3438 Marshfield, Mo. (1:284/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00003Date: 04/13/98 From: VALERIE JOHNSON Time: 07:21pm \/To: SHARYN NOAKES (Read 0 times) Subj: sorry sorry for spelling your name wrong Sharyn i spelled it sharon --- ProBoard v2.16 [Reg] * Origin: Gameland BBS (417)859-3438 Marshfield, Mo. (1:284/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00004Date: 04/11/98 From: MICHAEL CURRY Time: 09:20pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 0 times) Subj: uh-oh -> Sorry for delay in responding... have been neglecting Fido for a few days... -> Crash mail sent to your board .. 'course you already know that... (-' Yup.. got it.. and Thanks! :) -Mike --- PCBoard (R) v15.4 (OS/2) 5 Beta * Origin: Straight at ya! -=Southend BBS=- (1:267/128) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00005Date: 04/11/98 From: EDWARD SOTT Time: 09:32pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Ritalin JK> VJ> are you a doctor or a some kind of shrink cause i asked my aunt who JK> VJ> is a doctor and she said it is correct JK> JK> JK> R.N. who gradiuated from a Federal psych hospital back in the 1940's before JK> tranquilizers were invented. JK> JK> Jane JK> JK> (Also have specialized in chemical dependency which means learn a lot about JK> mental illness, especially that which is not true :)! Don't take this the wrong way Jane. But if you are familiar with treatment for chemical dependecies in the forties, you must realize that the antiquated methods of treatment during this time are annoted by Bill W. and Dr. Bob in their stories. Found in the Big Book. Basically a person suffering from a chemical dependency was often locked in asyllums, misdiagnosed, and often ime mistreated. They used various degrees of what would now be considered tortures by todays standards, to treat chemical dependencies. And from the viewpoint of both an addict and a person with ADHD, I can only say that I'm glad that I was diagnosed and treated in the 80's when Modern Medical Science has become quite adequate in correct treatment. Edward S. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Phoenix Rising*Wilkes-Barre PA*Starwitch (717)822-2017 (1:268/442) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F5G00006Date: 04/12/98 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:28am \/To: VALERIE JOHNSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Ritalin and NIMH VJ> jane come on you are not 70 prove it name me the best actress VJ> and actor and director and movie in 1927 and 1928 ok dont cheat So Born 2/12/28, didn't go to the movies in those days. VJ> what my mom has bipolar and was an alcoholic. Does that make me an VJ> alcoholic and bipolar to? If you aren't, you carry the recessive genes and one or more of your grandchildren may be such. Depends upon your father's contribution. In my family, we had one child in every "branch" of the family that got the genes for alcoholism. --- * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255)