--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00007Date: 03/10/98 From: THOMAS KISH Time: 09:25pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Help! Ideas Needed. -> Since then, I have tried to find female doctors on the theory that some of -> them must be better than their male counterparts to succeed, and that they -> cannot possibly be any worse. Ohhh boy, isn't that a great bit of wisdom. Do you even bother to read what you type, or do you just push the buttons? --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 2 * Origin: The Inner Light BBS (313)285-0217 (1:2410/213.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00008Date: 03/10/98 From: THOMAS KISH Time: 09:57pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Ritalin 2/ -> Then how come I keep finding these articles in my email from infobeat and -> other services that tell me our schools are the absolute worst in the -> civilized world? -> Because people like you are too affraid to part with their money, even though it benefits future generations. -> And, for your information, there are teachers who don't ask to have the -> grand daugher placed on drugs. Those seem to be able to teach kids -> someething without them. Possibly, but it might also be due to the fact that the schools are understaffed, and the teachers are forced to stretch themselves beyond normal limits. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 2 * Origin: The Inner Light BBS (313)285-0217 (1:2410/213.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00009Date: 03/11/98 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:51am \/To: KALERA ASHLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Help! Ideas Needed. KA>JK> Our children are not prepared to compete. Explain to me just who in KA>JK> hell is supposed to support them when all of the WWII and post WWII KA>JK> humans are dead? KA>First of all, if you object to what other people are teaching your children, KA>I KA>sugegst you teach them yourself. That is a prerogative and a esponsibility KA>of KA>parenthood. I did. Unfortunately, the public school system is so well entrenched that many parents don't have sense enough to oppose it. My youngest has a master's degree in Whole Systems Design, the other two managed to get enough college to become self supporting. The oldest one does C.A.T. scans for a living, the middle daughter is an insurance agent in business with her father. Not exactly on welfare, and without any jail time at all. The oldest grandchild is now 19 going on 20, is studying to take some tests that will allow him to go further in computer technology. And he has managed to get rid of the former influence of a stepfather who is into drugs. Not by what he learned in school, incidently, but what I taught him when he was with me. KA>Secondly, in answer to your question, the people who will support them all KA>will be those of their contemporaries whose parents took responsibility for KA>their upbringing. Support what? Taxpayers really cannot pick and chose these days which is why school levies are failing. Your statement is too ambiguous to make sense. --- SLMR 2.1a Hello, I am part number ޺۳ݳݳ * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00010Date: 03/11/98 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:51am \/To: KALERA ASHLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Ritalin KA>JK> MP>JK>IF....there is any merit in the theory that this is connected to KA>food KA>JK> MP>JK>allergies, then the right diet would cost a lot less. KA>JK> KA>JK> How would you know? Since I have been studying the effects of diet on my behavior for over 25 years now, and have most recently downloaded an article linking all kinds of addiction to the dopamine receptors in the brain, I suspect that the quote above has been tampered with since I wrote whatever I did. I am only too well aware of the role remedial diet can play in both mental illness and addiction......have one grandson on a food supplement that is designed to enhance the lousy neurotransmitters he was born with. Incidently, the problem lies in the pleasure/reward system in the brain, thus trying to find out what kids feel about anything is rather stupid, and allowing them free reign in the school system is insane. Some kids just do not respond appropriately to certain stimuli and look for ways to "have a good time" that will get through the lousy brain chemicals they were born with. The adrenalin and insulin produced in some of the more dangerous stunts that they pull seems to satisfy some of them. That also keeps emergency room personnel busy. KA>As a matter of fact, nutritious whole foods are significantly cheaper than KA>the KA>processed junk that is so frequently blamed for ADD. That isn't enough. Tomatoes, wheat, and oatmeal are nutritious whole foods and I am allergic to them and more. KA>I, by the way, am a serious case of ADHD and my mother permitted neither jun KA>food nor television in her household. And as an adult, you now have the responsibility to find out what you are allergic to before you learn the hard way. Oh, I am also highly allergic to milk. --- SLMR 2.1a This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader! * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00011Date: 03/11/98 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:51am \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Help! Ideas Needed. MP>JK>Really? Worked just fine around here. The third time that the levy MP>JK>failed, the schools finally held a public session to find out what MP>JK>folks were angry about. MP>JK>Unfortunatley, many of those who voted against the measures, or did MP>JK>not vote, also did not show up at the session. MP>So, it did not "work just fine". The idiots who voted against the school MP>budget were know-nothing anti-tax morons who were clueless when it comes MP>to how to educate. Jury is still out and the school is having its second public session on March 12th. Someone is really trying to get input from the people who vote. --- SLMR 2.1a This tagline is umop apisdn * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00012Date: 03/11/98 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:51am \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Ritalin MP>JK>IF....there is any merit in the theory that this is connected to food MP>JK>allergies, then the right diet would cost a lot less. MP>Well, great news, ADHD is not connected to food allergies! However, kids MP>still should eat a good diet. Mark, since you still have to read anything at all that makes any sense about food allergies or any other physical cause for mental problems, I long since discounted anything you have to say on the subject. So explain why something that responds to any drug isn't physical in nature? And why we should not look for its real cause? --- SLMR 2.1a I practice thinking because I practice what I preach. * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00013Date: 03/08/98 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:33pm \/To: LOGAN RICH (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Ramblings... LOGAN RICH was thinking about Re: Ramblings... and keyed into cyberspace: LR> -=> Quoting Mark Probert to Logan Rich <=-03-01-98 21:09 LR> MP> LOGAN RICH was thinking about Re: Help! Ideas Needed. and keyed LR> MP> into cyberspace: LR> LR> JK> Oh yes, stop drugging the school kids for administrative LR> LR>convenience. LR> LR> LR> this quote should written backwards on the foreheads of LR> LR>administrators :) LR> MP> How about a little real proof that this is so? Jane could never LR> MP> provide it, just some ramblings she re-posts all the time. Anecdotal evidence is a waste of bandwidth. However, let's pick this "story" apart. LR> A reasonable request, although I have to admit that I'm not certain LR>just what you might consider "proof". A close friend of mine has LR>been teaching "special ed" students for many years in California, LR>and he has told me of numerous kids who are "diagnosed" by a school LR>nurse and referred to a local physician who routinely prescribes LR>Ritalin and other such drugs for a wide variety of symptoms. A nurse, especially a school nurse, is acting outside of her license if she actually done this. If she has, why has your friend not filed a complaint with the California State licensing authority? If he is afraid to do it, no problem. Have him let me know what school it is, and I will file the complaint. Most of LR>which relate to their behavior in class and/or their interactions LR>with certain teachers. He has personally questioned a few of the LR>cases, when he knew the student involved, and was summarily "shut LR>down" by the powers that be. It does appear that some school LR>officials and parents alike, are all to willing (dare I say eager) Don't dare say eager, especially when it comes to parents, since I know first hand the agony that parents go through in making this decision. to LR>put the child on drugs to modify their behavior instead of LR>acknowledging/exploring the root causes involved. What are the root causes of ADHD? As "evidence", I LR>can tell you that my friend pointed out that over the years it has LR>become increasingly common for medication to be recommended over LR>counseling or more traditional types of therapy. Speaking with a LR>counselor used to be the first thing *anyone* suggested, but now it LR>seems that Ritalin etc is the first thing that gets mentioned or discuss LR>ed. Great. Over the past several years, medical science has progressed to the point where they now know that counselling for most ADHD kids is useless until the kid can get control of their ADHD symptomatology. Counselling works to help a kid learn. If the ADHD interferes with learning, then get it out of the way with pharmacotherapy. I'm not saying this is true everywhere or all the time, but it LR>does seem to be a trend in public schools at least, and I suspect in LR>some private ones as well. Private schools do not want to be bothered with ADHD kids. LR> MP> The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. LR> BTW - Having noticed this quote on a number of your posts, I'm LR>curious what it means to you. I have pondered it a bit, but would LR> like to know how you see it. There is a Jewish fellow named Walsh in a town in Alabama who objected to his kids being subjected to public school sponsored prayer and is being castigated by his "neighbors". He sued in the USDC in Alabama and received a PI banning over the PA system prayers, and the required theology classes taught by local ministers. When his picture appearing in the newspaper, he was wearing a ball cap with "The Few. The Proud. The Chosen." I adopted it as a sign of support for him in resisting the Alabama Christian Inquisition. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00014Date: 03/09/98 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:28am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Ritalin JANE KELLEY was thinking about Ritalin and keyed into cyberspace: JK>MP>JK>BM>TK> I hope this isn't another one of those, don't use JK>MP>JK>BM>TK> ritalin, use this na supplement. It only costs $75.00 a JK>MP>JK>BM>TK> month, but if you become a distrib you will get a JK>MP>JK>BM>TK> discount. JK>MP>JK>IF....there is any merit in the theory that this is connected JK>MP>JK>to food allergies, then the right diet would cost a lot less. JK>How would you know? Jane, note that you are asking yourself "How would you know?" Chuckle.... The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00015Date: 03/09/98 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:29am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Ritalin 2/ JANE KELLEY was thinking about Ritalin 2/ and keyed into cyberspace: JK>MP>JK>WY>I may add that anyone with a seizure disorder should NOT use JK>MP>JK>WY>Ritalin, and the doctor should be so informed. JK>MP>JK>Try telling that to the public school system in this state. JK>MP>JK>All children who do not fit into a narrow little group must be JK>MP>JK>medicated to compensate for the lousy state the schools are in. JK>MP>Hogwash. JK>Then how come I keep finding these articles in my email from infobeat JK>and other services that tell me our schools are the absolute worst in JK>the civilized world? Because they have an agenda to push????? JK>And, for your information, there are teachers who don't ask to have JK>the grand daugher placed on drugs. Those seem to be able to teach JK>kids someething without them. Depends on the kids needs. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: F3G00016Date: 03/09/98 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:46am \/To: ZACH SPIER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Help! Ideas Needed. ZACH SPIER was thinking about Re: Help! Ideas Needed. and keyed into cyberspace: ZS>MP> Wrong. I do care. Let's see if your "source" is more than ZS>MP> someone's whimsical fantasy. Note that production figures of ZS>MP> liquid medications are NOT reported in gallons. ZS>Duh. Simple math. Duh? What is that supposed to mean? Maybe Jane is right. The schools are not teaching you youngsters very well. Actually, when someone reports something in units of measure that are generally not used in that system, I have a tendency to doubt the accuracy of the information. ZS>MP> BTW, you still have not explained how the figure quoted in YOUR ZS>MP> source, Harper's, grew from 27K to 40K. ZS>POSSIBLY BECAUSE I WAS QUOTING IT FROM MY MEMORY, AND DIDN'T REMEMBER ZS>IT EXACTLY? And possibly, 40K is larger than 27K and you felt more comfortable with a larger number? I certainly hope that you are continuing your efforts to provide the original source that Harper's used. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110)