--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAB00006Date: 06/04/97 From: TAMMY WILSON Time: 09:35am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: ADHD Symptoms Hi there.. I just recently started reading in this echo.. I'm a leader with one of the local Beaver troops, and have two children in the group her are ADHD. I would be interested in getting a list of the symptoms of ADHD, as well as tips in how to deal with young children who are ADD and ADHD. (The age group is 5-7) Thanks in advance for any information I may recieve. Tammy@sunrise.gryn.org --- * Origin: * T.S. II - Traveler's Rest Stop * (1:248/307) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAC00000Date: 06/07/97 From: JERRY SCHWARTZ Time: 04:42pm \/To: MARTIN SCHAAF (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Punishment [Jun 02, 97 - 19:11] Martin Schaaf of 1:161/40 wrote to Jerry Schwartz: JS>> Motivation seems to be where the problem lies. In essence, he cannot JS>> be motivated by anything more than a few hours in the past or JS> future. MS> This isn't "motivation." Rather, it reflects the memory deficits that are MS> a part of many cases of ADD. I don't think so: if you say "I thought you were going to save up for xxx?" by way of reminder, he'll still blow his money on whatever is in front of m. Jerry Schwartz --- Msged/386 4.00 * Origin: Write by Night (1:142/928) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAD00000Date: 06/07/97 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 06:26pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Dietary Information Jane Kelley (On 05 Jun 97) was overheard expounding to Mark Probert JK> I had a hard time accepting a friend's switch to Tegretol for control JK> of his bipolar problem until I saw it work for him. JK> There are folks in mental illness who do keep up on what is going on. I have a friend (yes this is anecdotal) who has been taking tegretol 200mg Bid in addition to lithium for over 15 years, his bipolar disorder is under excellent control ... again not new news; I guess it just takes some things longer to reach the sodden Northwest..?? --- PPoint 2.03 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAE00000Date: 06/07/97 From: REGINA FINAN Time: 11:57am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Karate I have found a school that is reccomended by mental health officials in my area. They also teach with full contact. I know many people may disagree with this and would like some opinions. My Jeremy rarely starts a fight, but I live in a Mini-Detroit area where the bigger kids are really picking on him. Although he can fight back, he doesn't do it much outside the home (meaning only with his brothers and sisters). He is intimidated by their age and size (I don't really blame him). We have gangs in the area and going to the parents DOES NOT work. I want him to learn the discipline Karate takes, but I do want him to have confidence to fight back. I am not avocating violence as I would like him to learn to walk away too and first most, but I feel in the area I live he must learn to defend himself. Am I wrong for such an attitude? This teacher says he can work with any problem I have at home too. I know someone who has trained under him for about 13 years, he is an adult now. Supposedly he had an extremely bad temper and attitude. He seems quite passive now (as passive as someone like that can be). I do see some of it now and then but it is hardly what I would call a temper. Would full contact be wrong? I don't like tournament Karate as I have seen people who can not defend themselves with it. For those who may not know of Jeremy I will give a brief summary. He is aggressive (very much) and defiant. ADHD/ODD. We are talking probable deliquent type. The kind that has no problem with saying NO and walking away from you if you call him. He can not handle teasing and has a lot of trouble with his emotions. Disappointment, anger, sadness all represent anger or aggressive outcomes. He is not affectionate, although it will come out once in a while and mainly with his cat. He can at times control his behavior, such as taking deep breaths during an aggressive episode and calming himself down, but this is few and far between. He is not on Meds. He behaves fairly well (most of time) at other peoples houses, until he feels comfortable (more on the shy side) and then nothing holds him back. I feel I have taken him as far as I can. Being 9 his defiant behavior is really becoming a problem. I will say this he loves making me tea and cooking for me. But this alone will not fill all his unconstructed time nor does this change his true problems. May I also add Jeremy's mind is constantly going and does not fall asleep until 3 or later in the morning. Now because he is so aggressive is full contact too much? I am going down to talk to the instructor again in person. Any opinions are welcomed. Regina ... ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done. --- * Origin: Nite Lite BBS (1:2410/534) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAE00001Date: 06/04/97 From: REGINA FINAN Time: 10:59am \/To: JERRY SCHWARTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Punishment -=> Quoting Jerry Schwartz to Regina Finan <=- JS> [May 30, 97 - 14:56] Regina Finan of 1:2410/534 wrote to Jerry JS> Schwartz: RF> Its hard sometimes when they come up with such good stories not to almost RF> laugh. And this story was somewhat possible. Although I think no hole RF> in the money kinda puts a hole in their story. JS> I think I told this one years ago, but shortly after we moved into a JS> new house I went down into the basement and discovered that the bottom JS> had fallen out of a drawer in a cabinet I used for storage. When I JS> say fallen out, I mean that there were charred bits of wood on the JS> floor and the drawer bottom looked as though it had been through a JS> fire. JS> As she was describing the fire, I realized that there had in fact not JS> been one: fires burn up, not down, and the drawer above was unmarked. JS> There was also no trace of smoke, nor ready source for the water she JS> described pouring on the flames. I realized that moisture in the new JS> basement had activated an old spill of some kind of chemical that had JS> eaten through the drawer bottom. JS> The moral is that some kids, if pressed, will concoct a tale with JS> remarkable skill. Oh yes, Jonathon did that too, concoct a good tale. He stayed out late one nite past dark. He finally came strolling in crying. He said him and a friend (who was black, this was important) had been kidnapped. He described in detail all the events including the van they were in. He went on to describe how he managed to get away and that his friend was shot and killed. Of course, my first reaction was that he told the truth, but my husband and I continued to ask questions and found a receipt from a drug store along with me calling the police and finding out the religious school this boy supposedly went to did not have any blacks. As the story unfolded we found out that the lie was not only to get him out of trouble, but the fact that he was lost and scared trying to find his way back home. The drug store was quite a few miles away. Needless to say, this was his first wild and last story ever told. But his reaction and emotional stress really had me there at first. And to think he let me call the police. I did this on purpose because at that point he needed a lesson beyond grounding, spankings or time outs. Regina ... ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done. --- * Origin: Nite Lite BBS (1:2410/534) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAE00002Date: 06/07/97 From: REGINA FINAN Time: 11:37am \/To: MARTIN SCHAAF (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Punishment -=> Quoting Martin Schaaf to Regina Finan <=- RF> Its hard sometimes when they come up with such good stories not to RF> almost RF> laugh. And this story was somewhat possible. Although I think no RF> hole in the money kinda puts a hole in their story. MS> MS> Is it just me, or did we all as ADD kids come up with some of the most MS> creative excuses? Most of them do. I didn't though as a child. I hated Authority so much that lying just wasn't my thing. I would amusingly tell the truth and get punished (at that time it was either a spanking or sent to me room, which I enjoyed) I just didn't care. Even at 19 I remember moving in with my boyfriend and not telling my mom, but not lying either. When she found out my boyfriend and her decided I would come home. One day she waited up for me as I came home strolling in at 5. She asked me if I was playing house. I easily and with amusing but defiant attitude told her I did not want to be here, this was her idea and kicking me out would be just fine. I would continue doing what I wanted and she was going to have to put up with it. Even when I married the man I let my mother pay for everything and then went and enloped. Of course there was more to it than defiant behavior, but the point was I always did what I wanted. Until, I got married. Then my spirit broke and I became a helpless person, until I got divorced and found myself again. I at that point turned my aggressive behavior into assertive behavior and became a whole person. Which I hope my children can learn. Regina ... All I need is a Wave and a board to surf it on. --- * Origin: Nite Lite BBS (1:2410/534) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAE00003Date: 06/07/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 10:21pm \/To: MARTIN SCHAAF (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Punishment MARTIN SCHAAF was thinking about Re: Punishment and keyed into cyberspace: MS> BM> BM> Yes...we hear that a LOT. "It's not _fair_" or something MS> BM> along the MS> BM> BM> lines that Johnny "made" me do it. MS> BM> JK> This is the typical ideology that those who have not been MS> BM> properly MS> BM> JK> disciplined at home will usually come up with. MS> BM> In a word BULL! MS> MS>Dear Moderator, MS>Isn't it about time to pour water on these flaming embers? In my opinion, NO, it is far from time. Jane posts her opinions as fact, and vis-a-vis ADHD, her opinions are worthless. One of the biggest problems parents have when first coming to grips with the fact that they have an ADHD child is the denial, and search for alternatives.Jane gives false hope. She **claims** to be a nurse and thus lends an air of authenticity to her opinion. Lurkers are entitled to see her challenged. When I am challenged, I post a basis for my opinion. I state my opinion as opinion. She should do the same. If she does not, then I, and I hope others, will hold her feet to the fire. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAE00004Date: 06/08/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 08:48am \/To: TAMMY WILSON (Read 1 times) Subj: ADHD Symptoms TAMMY WILSON was thinking about ADHD Symptoms and keyed into cyberspace: TW>Hi there.. TW>I just recently started reading in this echo.. I'm a leader with one TW>of the local Beaver troops, and have two children in the group her TW>are ADHD. I would be interested in getting a list of the symptoms of TW>ADHD, as well as tips in how to deal with young children who are ADD TW>and ADHD. (The age group is 5-7) A VERY GOOD QUESTION! I wish teachers would be so wise. The best thing that you can go is to watch your own behavior. Adult leaders through a process called modelling canset the standard for behavior of the group toward individuals. If you exclude the ADHDers, the other kids will exclude them. If you put down the ADHDers, the other kids will put them down. IOW, how YOU treat them will be the guide for the others. These two behaviors can condone and encourage ostracism. ADHDers, like all kids, do not react well to this. If you see a problem arising, or wish to forestall one, reward the group when the ADHDer does something well. If one child works well with the ADHDer, reward that child. Now, there are many old wives tales about ADHDers, so, I'll locate a file or two and u/l them for you. That should help, and your kids are lucky. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAE00005Date: 06/03/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:00am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Punishment JANE KELLEY was thinking about Punishment and keyed into cyberspace: JK>BM> Institutionalized child abuse is what you are talking about. I JK>BM> grew up in that era Jane, as did you. Physical punishment was JK>BM> meted out at the drop of a hat for the most innocuous of things. JK>Not where I went to school. And by therapuetic spanking, I mean by JK>parents. This notion of spoiling the child to the nearest juvenile JK>corrections institution is something that came along long after my JK>children were raised, thank heaven. And you have said that your daughter disagrees with you, thank heaven. Beating a child into submission does nothing except prove that the adult is weak. JK> Contrary to JK>BM> what you and Andrew seem to believe that kind of adult behavior JK>BM> did little, nothing IMO, to enhance the respect of students for JK>BM> teachers. JK>I've talked to folks who went to Catholic schools were the nuns did JK>not spare the rod at all. They have respect for those women still. No, they have a form of fear. Respect is earned. JK>BM> More that 90% of the time the admins and teaching staff in any JK>BM> given school aren't familiar enough with their own rules to JK>BM> consistently enforce them...reintroducing corporal punishment JK>BM> gives them carte blanche to whale away when ever the mood strikes JK>BM> them. Don't think for an instant that it wouldn't happen. JK>Most of the time, 90% of the administration and teaching staff in any JK>given school don't impress me as having the good sense to come in out JK>of the rain. Well, I have to agree with the conclusion, but form the opposite end of your reasoning. JK> BM> JK> well as the early separation from the rest of the JK>kids those who are BM> JK> found to be psychopathic. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: EAE00006Date: 06/03/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 04:33pm \/To: BETSY MCDERMOTT (Read 1 times) Subj: Punishment BETSY MCDERMOTT was thinking about Punishment and keyed into cyberspace: BM>Hey I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old and time out has not been BM>the way for us we have tried that he gets up moves aroung and screams BM>at us so we simply put the child in his room with no toys for 2 BM>minutes (1 minute for each year of age) and then ask him if he is BM>ready to behave! We have found that an occational swat on the hand is BM>nesisary only if he is grabbing for objects that are dangerouse plus BM>we do spank him if he runs toward the street so sometimes time out BM>does not always work for everyone!! A two year old should not be allowed unrestrained access to the street. You would get the same result as a hand smack by pulling his hand away and saying no very loudly. As for a one year old needing a time out...well...I do not think that the child of this age is capable of understanding what is happening. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110)