--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5B00012Date: 04/29/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:14am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Adhd JANE KELLEY was thinking about Re: Adhd and keyed into cyberspace: JK>KE>-=> the Slayer said *this*? JK>KE> |S> what does everyone else take for ADHD.. i take ritilin JK>There are those who are trying combinations of vitamins and specific JK>amino acids in order to stimulate the production of specific JK>neurotransmitters. One friend, after much urging from me, took her JK>child to Dr. Terry Neher who has worked with nutritional supplements JK>for some years. Tell Terry that I am still waiting for the documentation that his magic potion works. Of course, you remember that there is no proof that you concoctions work. JK>The child is now exhibiting no signs at all of the former panic JK>attacks or hyperactivity, and the mother has also calmned down JK>considerably. Sounds like the Hawthorne Effect by Proxy. JK>Dr. Neher can be reached at 1-800-849-XXXX. No, he cannot. Louie, his chief sales critter can. It is amazing how you accept sales literature as authoritative and reject the findings of researchers at Harvard, NIH, etc. JK>What will work depends upon your genetic history. For some, that is JK>Ritalin, for others this will not work at all. No, but there are other medications that can and do work. One study said that 98% of ADHDers can be helped by some combination of pharmacotherapy. ===>Mark Probert<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5B00013Date: 04/29/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 04:32pm \/To: ROD DYSINGER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Adhd ROD DYSINGER was thinking about Re: Adhd and keyed into cyberspace: RD>The message from Jane is good advise, as long as you take these RD>suppliments with the advise of your physician. There has been some RD>case studies reported that show that a dietary suppliment of a RD>compound: passionflower with chamomile has provided positive results RD>in persons who had previously been on the same medication you are RD>talking about. It appears that this natural compound acts upon the RD>autonomic nervous system similarly to certain neurotransmitters. RD>Rather than inducing production, these natural compounds compliment RD>and suppliment the neurotransmitters already present - in other RD>words: they work with the body, not make the body work. It also RD>would appear that this may have less side effects. I have been RD>following these case studies and will report as I find out more. RD>Rod I would REALLY love to read those case studies. Could you be so kind as to post the citation where I can find them? My library allows on line researching of over 1500 publications. ===>Mark Probert<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5B00014Date: 04/25/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:14pm \/To: REGINA FINAN (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Punishment REGINA FINAN was thinking about Re: Punishment and keyed into cyberspace: RF> K>You see, her Mom has "laid down the law", so to speak, and is RF> K>willing to discuss things when Jaime breaks a rule the *first* RF> K>time. But after the second time...... that Mom starts counting to RF> K>10. If she *reaches* 10, Jaime gets a spanking. (So far, I've RF> K>heard her count to 8 before Jaime settled down.) Mind you, this RF> K>is a *wonderful* child; she's a giggle-box and laughs at most RF> K>things. Once she gets going..... well, it's hard *not* to join in RF> K>with her giggling. RF> MP> And a beaten child. A shame. RF> RF> I sure don't want to get into this one. A spanking to an ADHD child RF> would not work anyways. Agreed. In fact, it is counterproductive. RF> K>It works, if the parents are willing to work with the child and RF> K>explain *why* the rule is there. (and have patience while doing RF> K>so. :) RF> MP> Fine explain the rule. Set limits. Have a consequence for going RF> MP> beyond the limits. However, to move from no punishment to RF> MP> beating the child is absurd. You give up so much. And the vast RF> MP> majority of parents are willing to work with the child. RF> It seems that the public, does not understand this matter. I will RF>not go into spanking as the moderator has called it an inappropriate RF>discussion, but I do myself believe violence creates violence. I do not remember the moderator in ADHD banning that. Donna Ransdall in Parents does. If it has been banned here, I'll stand by that. ===>Mark Probert<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5B00015Date: 05/04/97 From: ROD DYSINGER Time: 09:58am \/To: TOM DYER (Read 0 times) Subj: adhd tips Tom, Exactly, the two compounds in question both appear to directly effect the autonomic nervous system - thus the calming effect. I have some of the case studies being sent to me. (An aside to Bob - as far as I know, nothing has been published at this point - but I have requested information through the manufacturer.) I'm personally working with several individuals, and the initial results look promising. Of course, we still have to look at outside, or secondary influences. There is always hope that a more naturally acting compound is available vs. a synthetic. More later, Rod. (late for church) --- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.30 * Origin: 937-473-5465 artbw@bright.net fax 937-473-5025 (1:110/725) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5C00000Date: 04/25/97 From: JOHN HOPPMAN Time: 09:30am \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 0 times) Subj: Punishment BOB; Not to start a fight or anything like that...but if you "train" a child on what is wrong or right they will become stronger,i did, i dont spank my children,instead they get "time out"...works wonders,however isnt that a mental punishment?i dont know...never claimed to have all the answers,but i might have one...(if the ? is right).:)i dont think i was "abused" as a child...just taught some discipline(not much in the spelling area)............. --------not much on fact just alot of opinions...----------- --- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.30 * Origin: Permian Basin Play Room BBS 1:3808/11.0 Midland, Tex 1:3808/11) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5C00001Date: 05/05/97 From: DON OCALLAGHAN Time: 10:34pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: DYSLEXIA Note: This piece first appeared in the Winter, 1995 issue of Perspectives, published by the Orton Dyslexia Society. Overview This is the second in a series of columns on computers and other technologies that can make a difference in the lives of people with dyslexia. I am a successful dyslexic adult and part of the reason for my success is the fact that I use computers and other tools to organize my life and express my ideas. I am extremely opinionated. My strong feelings come from personal experience and the experience of thousands of people who I have helped get started with computers. The fact that I recommend certain computers, software, and other tools does not mean that they are endorsed by The Orton Dyslexia Society. Question How do computers change the writing process and what effect might this have on a dyslexic writer? Answer Using a computer and various pieces of software for writing makes the writing process easier, and so allows more writing to take place. Word processing software doesn't necessarily teach people how to write; it simply allows more writing to take place (by making the process easier) and so, allows people to learn from their own writing experience. Here it is again: the way to learn how to write is to do a lot of writing, and using a computer and software for writing can make the process of doing a lot of writing easier. Why Write? How do you get someone who hates writing to use a tool - even one as potentially interesting as a computer - to do something that is hard, unpleasant, or may have no personal meaning beyond getting through school? Just having access to a computer doesn't automatically solve a writing problem; the computer has to be used regularly as a writing tool to produce a variety of writing. One solution is to find a motivating force to get a person started with writing and keep them writing long enough to get hooked on the process. An external motivating force (an assignment or a reward) may work in the short term, but it's not portable and may not work with every writing task a person has to do in life. What happens when the external motivation isn't there? Better to learn how to produce an internal motivating force, for instance, sharing a piece of knowledge, an idea, an opinion, anger, or joy. Separating the Tool from the Writing It's also important to help dyslexic writers keep certain ideas clear in their minds: the difference between their disability and their intelligence, and the difference between the tools they are using for writing and the content that they want to produce with those tools. The end goal is to use the tool to share the depth and complexity of one's thinking in a form that others can understand, not to prove mastery of the tool. With this in mind choose simple, easy-to-use writing software that will fall into the background quickly, letting the writer get to the writing without wading through layers of user interface that may confuse and undermine self-confidence. How Computers Change the Writing Process When you write with a pen and paper, the composition process (forming, organizing, and encoding ideas) and the printing process (getting ink on paper) are wed. Unless one has an incredible memory and can hold complex trains of thought in sequence long enough to get them written by hand, the pen and paper method isn't very useful for anything more than short pieces of writing. When you fold dysgraphia into the mix, the pen and paper method isn't very useful for anything more than writing checks. A typewriter solves the dysgraphia problem, but it does not solve the memory problem or the problem of needing to edit the writing later. Computers change the writing process by holding all of the writing in memory (instead of on paper), freeing the memory of the person doing the writing, and because all of the writing is being stored electronically, it can be changed at any time with all sorts of electronic editing tools. Even the simplest computer printer will produce easier-to-read print than a dysgraphic person can produce by hand, making the print easier to proof-read, edit, and eventually share. Electronic editing allows: ? Expanded vocabulary: The person doing the writing is freer to take chances with words that they use but don't know how to spell because they can fix the spellings later ? De-emphasis of spelling: Dealing with spelling can be left until the content is set; then a spelling checker can be used ? Easy cut and paste organization: Easy reorganization frees a person from having to hold the entire organization of the piece of writing in their heads before starting to write ? Easier proofreading: Allows a person to finally get a sense of their own writing style and makes revision possible and bearable ? No more rewrites: Takes a huge weight off the dysgraphic person's back. Conversational Writing I learned how to write by writing hundreds of letters. I was motivated by loneliness and anger. I had just moved to a new city and didn't know many people and had left a lot of good friends behind, and I was in the process of coming out as a dyslexic adult. I had a lot to share and didn't have close friends to talk things over with, so I turned to my manual typewriter. I started conversations through letters with many of my friends who then lived too far away to talk with regularly. It wasn't an appropriate form for all of them, but a few of them kept up the conversation through correspondence. I was not a very experienced lettere; they appreciate it and they usually write back. List Making Another simple but powerful technique to help a person get started with writing is list making. Rather than struggle with making complete sentences, punctuating them correctly, worrying about grammar and other technical language patterns, why not start by making a simple list of everything you know (or can remember at the moment) about the subject at hand? For example, below I'll list some of the things I know about rock climbing (I used to do quite a bit of rock climbing): Rock Climbing places equipment weather clothing Yosemite rope computer.have worked for me and are a natural for anyone who has access t --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0150 * Origin: Ability OnLine - Toronto Canada - 416 650-5411 (1:250/518) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5C00002Date: 05/07/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 09:59am \/To: ROD DYSINGER (Read 0 times) Subj: Adhd Tips RD> It's always interesting to see that I'm not alone in trying to RD>combat ignorance within my own profession. It amazes me sometimes to RD>hear the remedies and treatments that pop up. Everything from high-tech RD>babble to pre-historic witchcraft. I have worked with children from RD>families who would rather believe in anything except what the problem RD>really is. I believe that education and further research is needed in RD>alternative methods of treating this disorder. I've sat and tried to convince a mother of a child with a diagnosis of bipolar disorder that the reason he has a problem with chemicals is that this disease includes the three genetic markers for alcoholism as well. She also is a bipolar and couldn't possibly be an alcoholic as she just doesn't drink that much. The denial is strong in folks who won't take the time to understand what neurotransmitters and other chemicals are directly affected by heredity. We know that we have mild neurological problems in families which did not seek treatment for alcoholism in the children. Dyslexia is common as are other reading problems. ADD and ADHD are simply a form of genetic mutation in those families......children who are paying the high price for the superstition and ignorance of their ancestors. The "magic pill" is more RD>and more becoming a way of making the lives of the parents and teachers RD>more managable, than making the quality of life for the child better. The schools around here don't tolerate anyone who has a history of chemical dependency who has presented any behavior problems even AFTER they have successfully completed treatment. We have one alternative school that has a good drug and alcohol counselor, the rest are lucky if they manage to get a very lousy student now and then. Our wonderful school system has just been put at 16th in the nation. It insists that the children who present chemical dependency problems be treated by folks who have credentials in mental health. This is not working, but they don't have the good sense to attempt to change. We have one of the better systems in place for the education and training of CD counselors. One school has sent its staff to a local college for this, Chief Leschi, the Native American school. It is now drug and alcohol free. RD> I agree that inter-related factors need more study. I also agree RD>that there are those in the profession that openly resist any RD>"different" methods. [I'ver argued with those who treat alcoholism, RD>drug addiction or ADHD as a Valium deficiency.] I personally ascribe to RD>seeking solutions rather than belabor the problem. Figure out their own drinking habits and who their not too distant ancestors were. As long as they don't go to jail, have a D.W.I., or beat their wives and children, they cannot possibly be alcoholics. If you don't believe me, just ask them. RD> As new case studies become available, and as soon as I get other RD>research, I'll make it available. See you soon. Rod Thanks. There has to be some sanity out there as I just got a flyer for a conference entitled "Attention Deficit, Depression, & Food" by INR, P. O. Box 4218, Berkeley CA 94704-0218. The list of topics reads as: Emotions, Behavior, and the Brain: An Overview ADD and ADHD (Attention Deficit Disorder and Attention Deficit Hyper activity Disorder) in Children and Adults: Diagnosis Hyperactivity, Distractibility, and Impulsiveness Causes of ADHD: Genetic, Biological, and Enviornmental Factors Food and ADHD: The Feingold Diet, Food Additives, Food Allergies, and Sugar: Basis for Recommendations Ritalin (Methylphenidate): Facts, Fallacies, Use and Abuse ADHD and its Relationship to Depression, Anxiety Disorders, Learning Disabilities, Conduct Disorders, and Tourette's Syndrome Current Pharmacological, Psychological, and Behavioral Treatments for Attention Deficit Disorder Treatments: at Home and at School Food and Emotions: Shedding Light on a Curious Relationship Monosodium Glutamate, Migraines, and Monoamines. Food and Well-Being Depression: The Food-Mood Link and the Serotonin Solution Dieting, Eating Disorders, and Depression: What is the Connection? Addiction to Thinness: Society vs. Physiology Poor Self-esteem and Food. Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia, Compulsive Eating Food Cravings: An Analysis of Origins and Effects Carbohydrate Craving vs. Fat Craving: Physiological vs. Psychological Correlations Pharmacological, Psychological, and Behavior Approaches to Appetite Control in Children and Adults Looking to the Future Dr. Laura Pawlak (Ph.D., R. D.) has a masters in nutrition and a doctorate in biolchemistry. Dr. Marjorie Freedman M.S., Ph.D.) is also a nutritionist. This is coming near me in June and I definitely want to be there when it does as one of the goals for students is to "design diets to optimize overall mental health and well-being." RD>--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.30 RD> * Origin: 937-473-5465 artbw@bright.net fax 937-473-5025 (1:110/725) * SLMR 2.1a * Photons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic. --- JCQWK * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5D00000Date: 05/05/97 From: ROBIN BROWN Time: 11:20pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Adhd Tips -=> Quoting Jane Kelley to Rod Dysinger <=- Dear Jane, I hope you don't mind me butting into your very interesting chat. JK> Are you aware that the Scots are convinced that salmon oil is magical JK> for alcoholics? The natives around here have the same opinion of that JK> fish. As a Scot living in Edinburgh I find your conviction very enlightening and a little amusing given the high price of Scotch and the fact that fresh salmon is available and much more pleasant when cooked and served with a nob of butter and a little fresh lemon. I was in Canada last month and their notion of the word "Alcoholic" is vastly different to the word as used over here. Lang may yer lum reek Regards Robin ... A BIG Welcome from Auld Reekie. --- My other machine is a Pentium * Origin: Darren's Little Castle BBS - 33.6 - (+44-1462-621049) (2:257/71) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5D00001Date: 05/05/97 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 04:51pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 0 times) Subj: Adhd Jane Kelley (On 03 May 97) was overheard expounding to Bob Moylan BM> I am still waiting, after 3 phone calls and 4 months to receive BM> anything from Al. JK> Strange. I got several pages from Terry Neher when I called. Strange indeed. There is at least one other, who we both are familiar with from this and other echos who also failed to receive anything from Terry or Al. JK> I also have one of his articles written and published in a JK> national magazine. Which one? What is the cover date? I'll hustle down to the library and pull it from the stacks. JK> How do you get so unlucky? Attitude? (-; ... If I throw a cat out the car window, is it kitty litter? --- PPoint 2.03 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E5H00000Date: 05/06/97 From: KETIRA Time: 08:57pm \/To: ROD DYSINGER (Read 0 times) Subj: "Natural" and ADHD -=> Rod Dysinger said *this*? RD> ... Considering what RD> the term "natural" means. People thought that the Indians were nuts RD> for chewing pine bark to relieve symptoms of headaches and flu - until RD> someone discovered asperin. I'll let you know if I have any success. That was Willow bark, not Pine.....and I'm that way myself. Since I've been given permission to try herbal stimulants in place of the dexedrine my psychiatrist had been prescribing for me, I'm researching it and seeing what herb reacts what way with me. Right now, it's Ginger root, and that seems to work just as well as the dexedrine! The only condition the psychiatrist mentioned was that I had to give him a report to him on the trials I made. :> I don't mind this...... Blessings, T. Wirs ... Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Paradise Online {423}429-4623 0r 429-2221 (1:3615/82)