--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps the role of "E.T." as the most popular movie of all time reflects this desire we all have for the validity of the mystical, the unusual, and the incomprehensible...something we cannot grasp, nor control; something incredible. There is, however, a problem: as Dr. Sagan cogently asserts, he, of all people who would be most fascinated who has spent a career studying the cosmos has examined the evidence for aliens among us and found no evidence whatever of any contact by any alien life forms. There is, further, no evidence crystals, magnets, various herbal remedies, mirrors, regressions, possessions, nor any of the myriad rambling of man's imagination to be anything other than false, fraudulent, and the stuff gullible people believe when they cannot employ effective skepticism. ADHD in children and adults has been subjected to the most rigorous scientific testing imaginable. There are now over 200 books, and many thousands of professional papers on this subject, dating back to 1937. Almost all of these publications are in intensively and carefully "peer-reviewed" journals, i.e., no baloney is allowed. This condition has been studied, documented, and accepted by the scientific, professional and academic community worldwide; contributors to the development of theory and treatment span several disciplines (Psychology, Psychiatry, Medicine, Pediatrics, and Neurology) and include the top professional staff of every major American and most overseas Universities. The figure of 4% of American children suffering from ADHD comes from professors at Johns Hopkins and Yale, among other universities and institutions. The P.E.T. scan studies come from National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, MD, the nation's leading research institution. Drs. Rapaport and Swedo's recent MRI studies were also conducted at NIMH. Genetic studies about ADHD are ongoing at many different universities worldwide. AN INCREDIBLE CURIOUSITY: now that we are on the verge of gene identification, now that we have P.E.T. scan data on the biochemical aspects of the condition, and now that we have MRI data showing the location of brain tissue defects, and now that we know and can employ a variety of medical agents to treat this condition, we have the outcry of Anti-Science to render these advances impotent. We have Dr. Peter Breggin, Montell Williams, and a host of gullible, fanatic, stubborn and Flat-Earth Know-Nothings who try to dominate public media and turn back the clock to the days of hysteria, passions and dreams, visions and foolishness of a pre-scientific world. Sometimes those of us who seriously toil to try to explain the real world of science and medicine and progress fail. Are we too complex, too boring? ADHD is real and treatable within a modern scientific context. REAL medications and other treatments are effective. Alternative interventions are fantasy. Consider. My comments: Interesting points are made in this article. * RM 1.31 * Eval Day 15 * Is it a volcano? An earthquake? No, it's...it's a C LVINOSAU * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00015Date: 01/17/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 10:50am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: BENEFITS OF MEDICATION Well, Jane, since the limits of your research skills regarding ADHD and MPH. seem to be the PDR, I'll provide more recent, and more complete, research on the use of stimulants with ADHD. This isn't from the PDR. Information in the PDR comes from the drug manufacturer (in Ritalin's case, Ciba-Geigy). They aren't about to send in research based on the generic form of Ritalin (methylphenidate) as their goal is to sell the non-generic form. However, researcher almost always use the generic form. This is one more reason that suggestions that the researchers and the drug companies are somehow consipiring together is silly. Here's what I found, quite easily, on the Internet just now. I went to the Internet and quite easily found this study summary. I'm including selected sections that correspond to misinformation recently posted in this folder. The formatting is mine to make it a little easier to read. Other than that, no content changes were made. Stimulants - Efficacy Conclusions (Gittelman-Klein 1987, Green 1992, Greenhill 1992) (note: MPD stands for "methylphenidate," the generic form of Ritalin. The generic form is almost always used in research -- another reason Ciba Geigy is not about to quote these studies when they send information for listing in PDR -- and all information in the PDR comes from the *drug company.*) Long-term use: There do not appear to be any adverse long term behavioral effects resulting from chronic stimulant use. A group of adults who had taken MPD for 3 or more years as children were found to have fewer psychiatric problems fewer car accidents more independent lives more were attending school a more positive view of their childhood and were less aggressive than a similar group of formerly untreated hyperactive adults (Hechtman et al 1984). * There are a total of 6 double-blind placebo controlled ADHD fficacy, studies 6 involving methylphenidate, 3 dextroamphetamine, 3 caffeine, and 1 pemoline. A total of 152 patients were studied. *Methylphenidate,dextroamphetamine, and pemoline appear equally effective in treating ADHD. The 3 psychostimulants were found to more effective than caffeine and placebo. A summary of the studies is presented in Table 1. *The psychostimulants are the first line drugs in the treatment of ADHD. *The stimulants MPD, DAS, and pemoline are equivalent in ADHD efficacy. *Stimulants normalize hyperactivity. Classroom behaviors such as noncompliance and interference are normalized by the drugs. However, not all behaviors are normalized by the stimulants. *Stimulants have a positive impact on the social behavior of hyperactive children. Stimulants improve the adult responses toward the children. This is clinically significant since teachers' behavior toward the medicated hyperactive child becomes indistinguishable from their behavior toward normal students. *The opinion that stimulants do not have any effect on classroom learning and performance is debatable. The only adequately controlled study that investigated this issue found that methylphenidate 0.3 mg/kg/d improved performance on arithmetical and language tasks (Douglas et al 1986). *Aggressive behavior including stealing and vandalism is improved by standard doses of MPD 0.3-0.6 mg/kg. *Stimulants decrease friction between sibs and peers. and improve maternal child-interactions. So, Janey, you see what real information is? Not your conspiratorial conjecture. (Note, Jane recently accused me in ALTMED of being a lackey for Ciba Geigy and a defender of Ritalin.) I have a brief post regarding conspiracy theorists. * RM 1.31 * Eval Day 15 * Is this Heaven. No. Smell, its Iowa. --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00016Date: 01/17/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 11:01am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: CONSPIRACIES I got this from the stated source. To quote from the alt.skeptics FAQ... "There are two general categories of conspiracy theory: Grand and Petty. "A Grand conspiracy theory is a belief that there is a large-scale conspiracy by those in power to mislead and/or control the rest of the world...." [Snip...] "Grand conspiracy theories divide the world into three groups. The Conspirators, the Investigators, and the Dupes. Conspirators have a vast secret. The Investigators have revealed parts of the conspiracy, but much is still secret. Investigators are always in great danger of being silenced by Conspirators. Dupes are just the rest of us. Often the Conspirators show a mixture of incredible subtlety and stunning stupidity. "Evidence produced by the Investigators is always either circumstantial or evaporates when looked at carefully. The theories can never be disproved, since any evidence to the contrary can be dismissed as having been planted by the Conspirators. If you spend any time or effort digging into the evidence produced by Investigators then you will be labelled a Conspirator yourself. Of course, nothing a Conspirator says can be believed." [Snip...] "People sometimes use the word "conspiracy" about their opponents without really thinking about what they are suggesting. If you find yourself tempted to refer to the "X conspiracy" where X is merely a group of people who disagree with you, then pick another word. Otherwise you will be asked for evidence that this conspiracy actually exists." My comments: Of course, anyone who questions any of the above "Investigators" immediately gets classified among the "Conspirators"... Right Jane? Is that why you think that I have stock in Ciba-Geigy? BTW, I did check out my mutual funds. Not one has any holdings in C-G. I'll have to insist that they get some. * RM 1.31 * Eval Day 15 * Is your cat missing? Check my tires. --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00017Date: 01/17/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 10:55am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: DEA "OBJECTIVITY" Several months ago, the DEA report on drug use was big headlines. It was used to bash MPH useage. Well... Right after that report came out I spent about 80 hours tracking down the sources of the DEA report by referring to the footnotes they cites on this issue. I now have a file about 2 inches think from the source material they used. And, then I researched the sources for those sources. In all cases the reports of mis-use of stimulants refers specifically to illicit use of *amphetamines" in general, not Ritalin specifically. In addition, the annual National Household Survey on Drug Abuse by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration's latest available report says, "The estimated prevalence of nonmedical use of psychotherapeutics in the past month has fluctuated over time. There were significant descreases in use between 1985 and 1991. A significant decrease in the use of tranquilizers nonmedically occurred between 1991 and 1993, but there were no changes in the use of sedatives, stimulants, or analgesics nonmedically used between 1991 and 1993." THIS is the source for all the hub-bub about increased Ritalin abuse! It just doesn't exist in a statistically significant amount. Like I said, I researched the sources of the DEA report, then research the sources for that source, and this is what I came up with! So, Janey, if you want to argue the point, go to the DEA and get the report. Read it. Then cross reference the entire bibliography. Then cross reference that. After doing that, you may wind up being informed. Please stop citing your magic potion salescritters (Neher and Bubba from Texas) as they do have the slightest degree of credibility. * RM 1.31 * Eval Day 15 * Is wetter REALLY better? --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00018Date: 01/18/97 From: DESIREE LOUVRE Time: 02:03pm \/To: JERRY SCHWARTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: How's That Again... Hello Jerry...now that a few things have been clarified, I have this to say... JS> There is still not anyone here talking about such JS> children: no parents, no children, no one but you. JS> That population must not be represented here. Perhaps JS> that is why your blanket assertions that supplements JS> should be used in place of medication did not meet with acceptance. I have an ADH child where I modify his diet. I always have, but because of his allergies. If there is some truth in the alcoholism factor, I was not told by his psychiatrist. Alcoholism does run in my family and we suspect, my husband's. We would never consider taking our son off of his medication without concrete proof that diet was all that was needed. That woud be ludacrous (SP?) and detrimental to my son's well being. On these grounds I do wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying. But I, for one would like to see more research done in this area. Maybe Jane Kelly needed to present her whole arguement right from the start instead of in bits and pieces. A better reception to the whole concept probably would have happened. Take care, Desiree BTW...that was me who wrote about turkey not working on my son, to calm him and level him off. The only thing we have found that works is... 1. minimal meat...he bloats 2. no food colouring, preservatives 3. NO chocolate or anything with caffeine 4. red sauces only a max of 2X a month and never in the same week 5. let him eat when he needs to and not when we think he should 6. only 4-6 ozs of milk/day unless it has been cooked in a food 7. meds at the same time EVERY day...any deviation and disaster 8. lots of healthy foods that he will eat and does like ie. Bananas 9. at least 10 hours of sleep a night, if not more...even if it means him taking a nap during the day 10. lots of foods with carbos and proteins 11. vitamins 12. and a TON of understanding and love This is what works for us. :) :) --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: TASH Online Disability Resource 604 856-3661 (1:153/316) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00019Date: 01/18/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 05:26pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Research..... When I try out what I learned about the net I will let you know what all of this has to do with ADD and ADHD. I think that dealing with the Down thing is enough for one day as I haven't gotten into netscape just yet. there are other pressing things that do happen around here. Be assured that I will share what I learn. It only took me a couple of days to find out about the Down supplement, the server, etc. Should not take too long to find out about ADD. --- * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00020Date: 01/18/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 05:28pm \/To: JERRY SCHWARTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Action On Research By this time, I would need more information in order to answer you. This should convince you of that need --- * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00021Date: 01/18/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 05:31pm \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: AD(H)D CHILDREN I mean by "work over" that the school teachers haven't the faintest idea of what to do with the kids that don't fit into a narrow mold, most of them at any rate. The local schools will find an excuse to discharge any kid who presents more of a problem than they wish to cope with. By slugging a kid down with drugs, he or she can be made to appear to conform and thus is allowed to remain in school. My daughter has enough medical knowledge and also access to the best doctors around this area as an x-ray tech who does C.A.T. scans. The child is not going to be medicated for the convenience of some poor teacher. --- * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00022Date: 01/18/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 05:33pm \/To: JERRY SCHWARTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Adderall Same Frenchman discovered the active ingredient in both the grape seeds and pine bark. Originally, the French explorers found out about the pine bark from the Indians they encountered. The grape seed has one more flavinoid than the pine bark does and since it doesn't have the same patent, is cheaper than pycnogenol is. --- * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: E1N00023Date: 01/18/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 05:35pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 1 times) Subj: How's That Again... With all due respect Bob, you have long since demonstrated your total ignorance of what is in the addiction field. --- * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)