--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00018Date: 12/21/96 From: JERRY SCHWARTZ Time: 03:15pm \/To: MARIE WEIDEMANN (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: That Kelley person... [Dec 20, 96 - 03:12] Marie Weidemann of 1:268/442 wrote to Mark Probert: MW> Thank you. I have copied this to my h/d so I will be able to find the MW> information when I have the time to check things out...One of the symptoms MW> that has followed me into adult life is having medication work ackwards. MW> When I was given a anti-depressant after I broke my back [and there was MW> talk of surgery], I became so depressed I wanted to just die...my doctor MW> realized it was the medication acting in reverse on me...any uppers make MW> me down, any downers pep me up. I have to be very careful with medicine. My son's mother had a peculiar reaction to Valium, which was given to her when she was being prepped for surgery: instead of getting drowsy, she sat bolt upright and began laughing her head off at everything that was said to her. They had to strap her down until it wore off. I have no idea if that is related to AD(H)D or not. Jerry Schwartz --- Msged/386 4.00 * Origin: Write by Night (1:142/928) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00019Date: 12/21/96 From: LORRETTA CURRY Time: 08:01pm \/To: GARRY FREEMYER (Read 2 times) Subj: but............... GF>-=> Quoting Jane Kelley to Mark Probert <=- GF> JK> * SLMR 2.1a * hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? GF>YAH!, I FOUND IT!!! NOW PLEASE TAKE IT BACK!!!!! but but I Don't wanta................. giggle, I could not resist...;. * SLMR 2.1a * Complaints? Write them here legibly [] <- --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: San Diego's HOTTEST BBS (619) 669-0385 (1:202/911) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00020Date: 12/21/96 From: LORRETTA CURRY Time: 08:01pm \/To: JEFF RICHTER (Read 2 times) Subj: Attention/behavioral diso JR> > -> My son has a hard time completing his work in school. There are some JR>What I have personally done is different than the Politically correct way JR>doing things. I praise my son when he does well, and tell him to keep up but this will not help a ADHD child....I have done this since day one with my ADHD child and he still can not focus....still still....ect,ect.... JR>with me, thats ok, because it is working with my son. I don't believe in i JR>making things right. I think ADHD is nothing more than "LAZINESS" to be lu JR>You will find your way to solving their problems with school. You just ave JR>be patient and work with them individually. no it is not laziness...it is a medically dignoised disease just like high blood pressure ,ect * SLMR 2.1a * * No you cannot call 911! . . . I'm downloading mail! --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: San Diego's HOTTEST BBS (619) 669-0385 (1:202/911) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00021Date: 12/21/96 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 08:03pm \/To: REGINA FINAN (Read 2 times) Subj: That Kelley person... Regina Finan On (17 Dec 96) was overheard to say to MARK PROBERT RF> I thought I would put my 2 cents in here. I am a person who use to RF> use all natural foods when I was younger. A lot of good voice of experience, common sense comments cut... All well said and obviously from the heart. Thanks for sharing... ((((((((Regina)))))))))) Bob ... Those who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those who are doing it --- PPoint 2.02 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00022Date: 12/21/96 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 08:08pm \/To: JEFF RICHTER (Read 2 times) Subj: Attention/behavioral disorders Jeff Richter On (18 Dec 96) was overheard to say to TINA HARRIS Hey Jeff... JR> What I have personally done is different than the Politically correct JR> way of doing things. There is not really a correct (politically or otherwise) way of managing a child with ADD/ADHD. Each kid is different and different approaches are required to meet THAT kid's needs. That _some_ things seem to work for many doesn't mean they work for all. JR> I praise my son when he does well, and tell him JR> to keep up the good work. Absolutely ... in everything JR> When he comes home with a bad weekly report, JR> I stand firm in taking away the things he likes. This gets him JR> thinking. I took away all his toys just last week, and now he will JR> "earn" them back. Alot of people may disagree with me, thats ok, JR> because it is working with my son. I don't believe that what happens at school should be punished at home. If, as you say, it is working with your son why would you have to repeat this procedure over and over? On the face of it, it wouldn't seem to be having any lasting effect... ?? The only thing that happens at school that we link to any other activity is participation in league sports... grades have to be maintained at an acceptable level - including homework - or he doesn't play; that's something he REALLY understands. JR> I don't believe in pills making things right. I don't think you will find many, if any, here who do believe or preach that. What you will see many of us saying over and over is that the right med or combo of meds helps our kids to do the best they are capable of, something that they CAN'T do very well with out meds. Ritalin/clonidine are helping my son to be the kind of kid HE wants to be. JR> I think ADHD is nothing more than "LAZINESS" to be blunt. Oh dear...the temptation to flame this is strong but the knowledge that doing so wouldn't be constructive is stronger. "Laziness" is a word that is used over and over to describe children and adults with ADD/ADHD by people who should, but don't, know better. There has been a lot written about ADD/ADHD in non-medical terms by many who have made long term, in depth, studies of the subject. If you have web access do a search using any browser you happen to like for ADHD or ADD. You'll get more hits than you can comfortably read at one sitting. If you don't have internet access your local library will have many of these books on their shelves. Thinking something is so and knowing, being able to prove it is, are two different things. At one time the widespread and commonly held belief was that the earth was flat, a little knowledge disproved that belief. Why not give your son the benefit of a doubt and read about the subject. Bob ... That's just my opinion... and I could be wrong. --- PPoint 2.02 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00023Date: 12/22/96 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 12:06am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 2 times) Subj: How's that again... JS>Doctors who are specialists in JS>addiction and related fields may be justifiably concerned about the ffects JS>of medications on the people they treat and study, but that doesn't mean tha JS>patients who benefit from medication should do without. JK> YES, IT DOES. ALCOHOLICS AND ADDICTS WILL APPEAR TO "BENEFIT" from JK>drugs of their choice. The alcoholics function much better with JK>alcohol in the early stages of their addiction. You can't read Jane, you can't see the forest for the trees. You can't see the difference between an alcoholic's craving for alcohol and a junkies craving for whatever they are hooked on and a medication prescribed for a specific purpose. The alcoholic chooses to drink that's plain and simple; the junkie chooses to pop that pill or shoot up on whatever. The child or adult with ADD/ADHD has no choice, never had a choice - couldn't say ... "well god thanks very much but I think I'll skip the ADD/ADHD this time around if you don't mind". JK>THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THERE IS SO LITTLE CONCERN SHOWN FOR THE TRUTH AT JK>THE PRESENT TIME. Something that you very ably demonstrate in every post you put in this echo. JK>FOR THOSE WITHOUT THE BRAIN CHEMISTRY OF ALCOHOLISM, Ritalin is great. JK>AND those folks will not tend toward addiction. Post one, just one Jane, citation that demonstrates conclusively that ritalin is physiologically an addictive substance. JK>NOW LISTEN UP. THE BRAIN AND BODY CHEMISTRY OF THOSE FAMILIES WHICH JK>HAVE ALCOHOLISM IS DIFFERENT AT BIRTH. Explain, if you can, why there are so many children of die hard alcoholic parents who never, NEVER, take a drink of alcohol in any form. JK>ONe friend of mine developed emphysema from smoking. His habit wasn't JK>any worse than anyone else's habit. He was the one who had the Ritalin JK>as a kid and never should have had it as he is an alcoholic. He was a two pack a day smoker and an alcoholic as a child too no doubt? JK>And, the latest remedial diet is not the high-fat diet. It is a mixture JK>of carefully formulated food supplements that work far better for the JK>families with alcoholism than the Ritalin ever will. Would it surprise you to know that ritalin is not a treatment for alcoholism? JK>They don't know what they are talking about and should stop practising JK>medicine without a license. What do you call what you are doing dear heart if not practicing medicine - without benefit of a license, not to mention years of med school, internships, residency and all that other bothersome training. JK> I have attended A.A. and Alanon meetings for nearly 30 years Some alcoholics have attended for years also, yet I don't see them in here pushing vitamins, food supplements and other assorted witches brews as treatments for ADD/ADHD. JK>I was at an A.A. dance many years ago in Seattle when one person went JK>into convulsions. As a nurse, I went over to assit him. I had various JK>objects offered me instantly including one soft leather wallet that was JK>perfect to put into his mouth to prevent injury to his teeth or tongue. I don't know where you allegedly received your nurse's training, and I hope it didn't cost anyone too much because you certainly didn't learn diddly squat about epilepsy! "went into convulsions" that's such a 1930's yellow journalism phrase - probably the most recent thing you've read now that I think about it. And you actually stuck a "soft leather wallet" into this person's mouth...god what an idiot you are, you are damned lucky you didn't get a finger bitten off and even luckier that you didn't cause the poor soul to choke. JK>Others went to his home and got the medications he was on. They were JK>ready and waiting when the paramedics arrived on the scene. And yes, one JK>of them was Dilantin. You are saying then that "others" broke into this man's house, stole medications and returned to the dance all BEFORE the paramedics arrived on the scene? Please ... you are a lousy story teller or a teller of lousy stories - which ever fits ... JK>I am basing what I say on several books and research papers that I have JK>around here. Well then give a citation or two when asked to back up your claims JK>I am saying it as a chemical dependency counselor, fully JK>licensed by this state to diagnose and treat alcoholism and drug JK>addiction, as well as the prevention of these in the families of JK>addicts. Well then.. you shouldn't have any problem with one writing to the Washington state board of nursing to check up on that would you? JK>And I see a big problem with doctors who do not take the time to do a You see big problems with anyone who disagrees with your narrow point of view or who has the audacity to contradict you. JK>In this day and age, that will shortly be construed as JK>malpractice in some court of law. Ahh I see that you do occasionally glean something from what others post...I recall that both Mark and I told you that malpractice is determined in a court, not in some nurse's mind... ... Jurassic Park II: Barney goes off his Medication --- PPoint 2.02 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00024Date: 12/22/96 From: MARYANN KOCHANKO Time: 03:02pm \/To: MARIE WEIDEMANN (Read 2 times) Subj: alcoholism > I, too, have nursing in my backround and have not run into this. Of > course, > I am not longer active in the nursing field but I do read and try to > keep > myself updated on new facts in the field...I realize that *in some > cases* > alcohol can play a part, but not in all cases....that is just my > point... I am sure alcohol could play a part in a lot of things. I seriously doubt that it plays a part in true ADHD. Perhaps enviromentally, a child could exhibit symptoms of ADHD becuase of being ignored or abused by the alcoholic. but this is not what ADHD is. It is a neurological disorder and not one caused by the environment. Children are born with ADHD. The don't aquire . > Each and every child and, therefore each case, is different...all > things > should be checked, yes, but to just lump all kids with AD(H)D in one > group > is wrong, in my opinion.... Seems like the public generalizes a lot about ADHD don't they? MaryAnn >> JK> >> JK> -!- JCQWK >> JK> ! Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255) >> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 >> --- GEcho 1.00 >> ! Origin: PHOENIX RISING BBS *SYSOP STARWITCH* 822-2017 (1:268/442) > MK> -!- FMail 1.0g > MK> ! Origin: You're the computer!..YOU tell me where the file is! > MK> (1:267/124.1) > ... Faith is wishing not to know what is true. > ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 > --- GEcho 1.00 > * Origin: PHOENIX RISING BBS *SYSOP STARWITCH* 822-2017 (1:268/442) --- FMail 1.0g * Origin: You're the computer!..YOU tell me where the file is! (1:267/124.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00025Date: 12/22/96 From: MARYANN KOCHANKO Time: 03:13pm \/To: MARIE WEIDEMANN (Read 2 times) Subj: Alcoholism > One of the first thing the doctor did when working up a family history > was to ask about any addictions in our family...the only person with > any > type of addiction history was my late husband who was the *step-father* > of > my children...and who, by the way, was in AA for many years. He ran > into > a "registered nurse" who "knew about addictions" and convinced him that > he > should throw away his medicine and start vitamin suppliments...he went > into > convulsions as a result and had to be rushed to the hospital...so I > tend > to be a bit suspicious about "wisdom" from other than a medical doctor. Was her name Jane....:) If this nurse was a properly educated nurse and knew about drug addictions, and alcoholism, she would have known you can't do that. This is very elementary information when studying nursing. I am appalled at the amount of nurses who don't know anything about discontinuing certain drugs abrutly. I worked in a nursing home for a while. A patient there was on Klonopin for epilepsy. Well seems as though she didn't have a siezure for a long time and the doctor took her off the Klonopin cold turkey. Well the nurse who took the order did not question it. Needless to say, the patient went into status epilepticus and ended up dying. Some people are under the perception that nurses don't do anything all day long. Do you know how many times I had to question a doctor about his order, in order to save a patient's life. I have only 6 years education, a doctor has a lot more. And if something happens to a patient, even though I am just a lowely nurse just following a doctor's order, guess who gets the wrap? The situation above was not me. I was working at the time in a quality assurance capacity. By the time, this incident came to my attention it was already too late. Doctors are not GOD! If a nurse gives you advice, and I know she is not God like doctors are, MOST--not all of the time you should take her word for it and question the doctor, if he doesn't agree get a second opinion from another doc. MaryAnn --- FMail 1.0g * Origin: You're the computer!..YOU tell me where the file is! (1:267/124.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00026Date: 12/22/96 From: MARYANN KOCHANKO Time: 03:27pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Adhd....76 Bob Mylan to Jane Kelley--------> > Yeah they know what they are doing ... fleecing those who are > desperate enough to try anything. If a pharmacist in this state > "prescribes" anything he or she is very likely to wind up in the > slammer for practicing medicine without a license. How stupid do you > think we are to swallow something like that? I agree with you Bob, what pharmisist is there right mind would risk loosing there license to promote unproven herbal remedies. They even go so far to say that there herbs are cheaper than conventional medicine. Anyone who has been to a health food store can tell you different. I stick to my three squares a day, if God intended me to have all of those vitamins he would have made our food filled with mega vitamins. Some vitamins are dangerous taken in high doses. Some can cause irreparable damage if not death. Anyone educated medically knows what hyperkalemia can do. > JK> They are rare, however. > I'm sure they are .. non-existent would be more like it. They would be stupid if they did. > JK> And, even with an exact dosage, the result is not always predictable > JK> in using a mind altering drug of any kind. > I should know better, but .. what "mind altering drug(s) are you > referring to ?? She is probably referring to Ritalin. They are looking to get ADHD catagorized as more of a medical disorder and not a mental one. Research has shown that there is a deficit of nerve conduction and blood flow to the frontal lobe of the brain of those who suffer with ADHD. When will the public wake up? Reminds me of back in the stone ages when people thought those with epilesy, were possessed.:) Have a wonderful Holiday...:) MaryAnn --- FMail 1.0g * Origin: You're the computer!..YOU tell me where the file is! (1:267/124.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 222 ATTENTION DEF. Ref: DGS00027Date: 12/22/96 From: MARYANN KOCHANKO Time: 03:35pm \/To: JERRY SCHWARTZ (Read 2 times) Subj: Attention/behavioral disorders > If your methods work on your child, then my guess is that he does not > have AD(H)D. We have tried the same things on my son, and they do not > work. Aside from that, there are other symptoms of AD(H)D which have > nothing to do with doing well or poorly in school or anywhere else. > They are sometimes hard to describe, but they can be quite noticeable > when you know what to look for. Right you are Jerry. I too have tried it all with my son. I had 7 years to work with him, on behavioural issues. No he is not lazy like people wh don't believe in ADHD insist. There are lazy kids who will respond to the treatment of taking away toys and priviledges. On ADHD kids it doesn't make a difference becuase they don't have a mental disorder, it is a medical one---see my other message in this echo to Bob Moylan. Just like you treat diabetes with insulin and epilepsy with Tegratol, you treat ADHD with Ritalin or other medically proven drugs. MaryAnn --- FMail 1.0g * Origin: You're the computer!..YOU tell me where the file is! (1:267/124.1)