--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2R00000 Date: 02/21/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 10:25am \/To: GEORGE JIRI OPLETAL (Read 2 times) Subj: My stand on UFOs I said... > JS> I stress these points I have presented in the name of UFOlogy. > JS> Too much "I believe" deters from legitimate research, because there > JS> just aren't any aliens being found behind the bush. Too many people > JS> are associating UFOs with alien visitors/invaders. > JS> A healthy dose of reality is needed from time to time, and that too > JS> is part of my job, so don't misunderstand my motives. ;-) > JS> Now that the more "aggressive" skeptics have retreated to the > JS> background to either re-group or sulk (I don't care which), our > JS> remaining "staff" of skeptic contributors are called upon to keep the > JS> rest of us in touch with reality. I call upon all UFO researchers, > JS> UFOlogists, and investigators to continue their activities, but with > JS> skeptism uppermost in their minds. My advice is best for our image, > JS> believe me. You replied... > A word or two on this important point your raised. It is beyond > doubt that UFOs exist....and 90% of all U.F.O.s (a figure somwhere > in the correct ballpark) are deemed explain by natural phenomena. > So what counts as evidence for the ets hypothesis? Would not you > sighting be a small piece of evidence since this explanation seems > to explain all the facts. Same as the sighting over Tehran and many > others. With regards to the Skeptics.... ..they claim to represent > the name but a great deal of them suffer from the same ignorance as > the worst of the ufo buffs. They come in with a set viewpoint from > the beginning, and believe error ridden claims from the 'experts' > like some in ufo field take to Lazar. The problems occur on both > sides but at least here people can admit a problem exists. Skeptics have every right to present their views. Anyone can then question them as they question those of us who speculate a lot. My sighting is evidence that influences me more than it does others. It falls in the catagory of, "You would have had to been there and seen for yourself!" Unlike photographs which can be faked, a real time sighting is only marginally questionable. A skeptic may point out the obvious alternative objects the sighting could have been of, but if the experiencer denies these alternatives, the argument ends right there. It doesn't prove the object was an alien craft, but it does become one of the strong points of evidence that leave questions that are unanswerable. js --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2R00001 Date: 02/21/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 10:30am \/To: GEORGE JIRI OPLETAL (Read 2 times) Subj: My stand on UFOs > DB> JS> ...To bring the "truth" to us like some fundamentalist knocking n > my > DB> JS> door? That is the impression I get from some skeptics. > DB> Then, as you often do, you have gotten the wrong impression. > DB> Skeptics don't bring "The Truth." Indeed, we QUESTION claims to The > DB> Truth. We bring rationality, critical thinking, and science -- some > DB> things that are sorely lacking in the UFO arena. > Oh..that would be good in your glorified ideal David but this is > not always the case. Your fellow skeptics have had their share of a > lack of rational thinking (claims about 2 bets, lies about > moderation...I will not name anyone) and have looked silly a number George, you are letting arguments from another echo creep into your arguments here. Please restrict your argument to the events that occur in THIS echo. js --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2R00002 Date: 02/21/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 10:41am \/To: PAUL ANDINACH (Read 2 times) Subj: What happened? read! Paul, here is a message you sent to Dan Deyette... > -=> Quoting Dan Deyette to All <=- > DD> Years ago in about the late 1600s and 1700s people were scared > DD> stiff about UFO's and Mysterious types of events. They had such > DD> ignorant open mindedness. > A lot of people are like that still. > DD> I often wonder why people dont beleve in UFO's as much anymore. > DD> It's probably because the alien's have gotten better at taking > DD> the person (or whatever their after) and leaving without many > DD> people knowing. > Oh? Could it possibly be that people just have less "ignorant > open mindedness"? > DD> I personaly have never seen a UFO or an alien for that matter, > DD> but i do beleve in them and i have read alot of books about them. It is here that you lay the groundwork for an insult... > Here's a sudden turnaround. First you say that people who believe > in UFOs and suchlike have "ignorant open-mindedness", then you say > that you believe in UFOs. Does that mean you're ignorant? > And if you've never seen an alien, why do you believe they're > there? > DD> I wonder why most people cant come to realize that just mabe we > DD> ARENT the centre of the universe!!! > I wonder why you think that most people think we are the centre > of > the universe? > DD> Cuz if they think we're the centre then i guess they havent seen > DD> the pictures of the black hole that realy exist's in the centre. ...And it is here that you make the insult... > Oh, so you are ignorant. > The black hole *may* be in the centre of the galaxy. It hasn't > been confirmed, and there are no pictures of it. > It's not in the centre of the universe, which doesn't exist. > Paul I didn't think the comment was appropriate. (Roger, you are slipping.) js --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2R00003 Date: 02/21/98 From: ADAM MAJER Time: 01:17pm \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 2 times) Subj: Skeptics are sometimes wr JS>1. Skeptic: One who habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees. JS>2. Skeptic: One inclined to skepticism in philosophical or religious JS>matters. Well, then I have to be a believing sceptic. The more you know, the more questions arrise (especially in physics). I believe that there's extraterrestial life but why would they come to earth and why they never shown themselves to us? And why ... etc, etc... * SLMR 2.1a * All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: -= The Dragon's Lair =- (204)269-2164...Wpg.MB (1:348/943) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2R00004 Date: 02/21/98 From: ADAM MAJER Time: 01:17pm \/To: KEN KUBOS (Rcvd) (Read 2 times) Subj: ET's would visit us... KK>1) We have Nuclear Energy. So? We are still light yrs away from understanding nuclear forces the way we understand electromagnetic forces. KK>2) We are doing HGP Human Genome Project. We are beginning to know our KK> own DNA and we're now Cloning. It's crude and there's nothing we should be proud of. I say let's leave loning to mother nature. KK>4) We are beginning to use Nanotechnology. We have yet to produce an KK> assembler but we're trying. Nanotechnology is still many decades away. KK>5) We're using Neural Networks to solve some our problems, but it's KK> only resident in a few of our computers. We have to change our KK> computers, per se, to reflect Neural Network philosophies. Enter KK> American Computer Corp. What the heck is a Neural Network? There are cave drawings of UFO's thousands of yrs old so the only reason why the UFO would visit Earth and never colonize it would be that they are corious. Or perhaps Earth is an experiment od some sort or maybe UFO simply don't exist. * SLMR 2.1a * --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E-- --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: -= The Dragon's Lair =- (204)269-2164...Wpg.MB (1:348/943) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2R00005 Date: 02/19/98 From: MATTHEW SCRUGGS Time: 07:49am \/To: MICHAEL HOLT (Read 2 times) Subj: Little greys Micheal: Hallo! RE: Where I got too.. Well, that is a long story. The short-hand version is this: I moved in 92. I still had the PC & all, but I became seriously ill within this time frame ( I had-still have Crohn's disease) so I wasn't very involved . Later I had a falling out in the family & moved back to Clearwater. However I ended up selling my system, & was out of the loop for at least 2 years. About the only person I discussed this with was Len Stringfield shortly before he died. RE:Eyes I think I see what you are getting at here. I believe, if the descriptions are accurate, what the abductee sees is some form of lens cap. THis is bolstered (if you can use such a strong word on a shaky subject right here..) by what Phil Corso wrote, as well as that very dubious autopsy film. Your thoughts? Matthew. --- Platinum Xpress/386/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: The Disk Fix * Maryville, Tn * 423-983-8232 * (1:3615/5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2R00006 Date: 02/20/98 From: MATTHEW SCRUGGS Time: 12:29pm \/To: KEN KUBOS (Rcvd) (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Little greys URL's Ken: Many thanks, I'll do that even tho' I'm new at websurfing. Again thanks, Matthew. PS. Love that tagline! --- Platinum Xpress/386/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: The Disk Fix * Maryville, Tn * 423-983-8232 * (1:3615/5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2R00007 Date: 02/16/98 From: MATTHEW SCRUGGS Time: 07:49am \/To: IVY IVERSON (Read 2 times) Subj: Genuine? Ivy: Hi! Re: Cleaning up ballons ...Or for that matter why it would take the efforts of over 80 individuals to clean up a neoprene balloon with an instrument package. ...Or why Jesse Marcel Sr. would continue to confuse a Mogul ballon over so many years with a "flying Disc" when he wrote the report of the Project's results for the president. ...Or how Professor Curry (an archealogist & anthropologist) could mistake dummies for dead bodies. ...or.. Well, you get the picture. This is more USAF fertilizer. Always looking to the skies. Matt. --- Platinum Xpress/386/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: The Disk Fix * Maryville, Tn * 423-983-8232 * (1:3615/5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2RC3398 Date: 02/22/98 From: KEN KUBOS Time: 08:56am \/To: ADAM MAJER (Read 2 times) Subj: R: Re: ET's would visit us.. -=> Quoting Adam Majer to Ken Kubos <=- KK>1) We have Nuclear Energy. AM> So? We are still light yrs away from understanding nuclear forces the AM> way we understand electromagnetic forces. KK>2) We are doing HGP Human Genome Project. We are beginning to know our KK> own DNA and we're now Cloning. AM> It's crude and there's nothing we should be proud of. I say let's AM> leave cloning to mother nature. We are there...just like ET's. KK>4) We are beginning to use Nanotechnology. We have yet to produce an KK> assembler but we're trying. AM> Nanotechnology is still many decades away. Look up Nanotechnology in the Web...and on Web pages which you can get from Yahoo. We are here! The germinal work is: K. Eric Drexler, "Engines of Creation. Anchor Press, Doubleday, 1986. ISBN 0-385-19973-2. KK>5) We're using Neural Networks to solve some our problems, but it's KK> only resident in a few of our computers. We have to change our KK> computers, per se, to reflect Neural Network philosophies. Enter KK> American Computer Corp. AM> What the heck is a Neural Network? Look up Neural Network in the ACC page...and on the Yahoo Web pages... I do it all the time. I use Ward Systems software. ... (Cannibal eating a clown): I dunno; this tastes funny. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2RC3403 Date: 02/22/98 From: LAURIE APPLETON Time: 08:33am \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 2 times) Subj: Abductees. Hi Jack, (Re: yours of 09-Feb-1998, "abductees.") LA> Everywhere we have been in the Solar system we have found LA> no sign of life what ever and all efforts to communicate with LA> any other forms of life have failed miserably. The reasonable LA> conclusion is that this Earth is the ONLY place where any life LA> exists and has ever existed! JS> The universe is too big for a conclusion such as you JS> suggest. There are 200 billion suns in our Milky Way galaxy. JS> There are at least that same number of >other< galaxies. To JS> suggest we are the only life in all these trillions of JS> galaxies is extremely self-centered. Now now now Jack. There is no call for personal abuse, surely! Just try to stick to the facts eh. After all most Gallup Polls and similar things only take a sampling of the views of the population and we form judgements on such things. So in the 'sampling' that our best scientists have made of the Universe to date we can properly conclude, in terms of what we *DO* know that we are ALONE! That has NOTHING with being "self-centered" at all, but has everything to do with our scientific findings. I doubt if anything further has been found since a recognised scientist wrote in 1985 that; "All the trails that Man has so far followed have led to dead-ends. Radio astronomers have picked up no messages from the stars; biologists have not been able to show that life would inevitably arise on an Earth-like world circling another star; astronomers have not even proved that other stars have planetary systems; and there is no evidence that aliens have ever visited the earth." (The Mysterious Universe, Nigel Henbest, 1985 edition, p.117) Laurie --- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b * Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)