--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400003 Date: 02/03/98 From: IVY IVERSON Time: 12:47am \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 2 times) Subj: POSTCARD - ORTK -=> On 02-02-98 12:15, Jack Sargeant said to Ivy Iverson,<=- -=>"About POSTCARD - ORTK...,"<=- Hi, Jack; II> ... If you wish to discuss this, you can reach me II> here, netmail to 1:154/170 or MufoNet 88:4307/2. JS> Ivy, some of my other current interest may be a time detriment for me. JS> I'll send you a netmail and explain. Received and understood. I was hoping that you could possibly post some of your good reports in there. Catch you later... Keep l00king up! Ivy ... I was abducted by aliens and all I got was this lousy implant. -- -=[ Ivy's WALL BBS <-KB9QPM/AE-> Hi, Jack! <-> Happy New Year to All! ]=- ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- TriToss (tm) 1.03 - (Unregistered) * Origin: Ivy's WALL BBS - Sheboygan, WI 920-457-9255 (1:154/170) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400004 Date: 02/03/98 From: IVY IVERSON Time: 12:52am \/To: GEORGE JIRI OPLETAL (Read 2 times) Subj: Mars Rock, Earth Rock, Ma -=> On 02-01-98 14:14, George Jiri Opletal said to Ivy Iverson,<=- -=>"About Mars Rock, Earth Rock, Ma...,"<=- Hi, George; [Big snip] II> Don't think so. For a meteor to strike one planet, (Earth or Mars... II> ... into space, where it found it's way to another planet, I II> consider possible. But for ANOTHER meteor to hit close enough to the II> landing spot to knock the SAME rock back to it's planet of origin... II> that would have to be the cosmic pool shot of all time! (And that II> means TRILLIONS of years!!!) No, in the words of Spock, it is not II> logical. The odds against it are so high that not even a Cray - or II> Deep Thought, (of Hitchiker's Guide), could compute it in 42 and 1/2 II> billion years! GJO> I heard the sample was most likely contaminated where it was found in GJO> some recent news reports. You heard that? Uep, heard that one, and I can see getting contaminated on the outside, but on the INSIDE of a solit rock? Hmmm... Don't think so. Catch you later... Keep l00king up. Ivy ... Orbital mechanics: Astronauts on a space walk. -- -=[ Ivy's WALL BBS <-KB9QPM/AE-> Hi, Jack! <-> Happy New Year to All! ]=- ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- TriToss (tm) 1.03 - (Unregistered) * Origin: Ivy's WALL BBS - Sheboygan, WI 920-457-9255 (1:154/170) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400005 Date: 02/03/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 10:47am \/To: SHEPPARD GORDON (Read 2 times) Subj: Bye, bye troublemaker > Attention ALL: > Jack Sargeant has sent my Sysop a note saying that, because of messages > I sent on ANOTHER conference, NoPiracy, Jack is banning me from this > conference. > Also note that Jack is ignoring the fact that the Sysop of NoPiracy has > installed an 'All topics allowed' rule for this month, and Jack simply > didn't like what he read in that other echo. ...Nor did the Moderator (NEC of net 379). He certainly didn't mean your flamefest full of ad hominem attacks would be allowed. The Moderator of NOPIRACY has banned you from that echo for life. In fact, you may consider yourself banned from ALL echoes I either moderate or co-moderate. On Christmas day I declared an amnesty, and this is how you pay me back for my good feeling towards all. Your attacks on me in NOPIRACY are typical of any snake-in-the-grass who has crawled out from under a rock. Good riddance. Jack Sargeant, Moderator -=UFO echo=- /Co-Moderator, NOPIRACY & BAMA cc: NOPIRACY, SKEPTIC --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400006 Date: 02/03/98 From: MODERATOR Time: 12:31pm \/To: WHOM IT MAY CONCERN (Read 2 times) Subj: Attacks on my character. Any further attacks on my character in other echoes will be met by a permanent suspension of your write privileges in UFO. Jack Sargeant, Moderator -=UFO echo=- --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400007 Date: 02/03/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 12:41pm \/To: CHARLES DANIELS (Read 2 times) Subj: Area 51 Alien Interview > From what I have read about Lazar he claims to have worked on > craft that seemed to be designed for use for non-humans and worked > in ways beyond > our current technological advancement. He claimed to have been > supplied documents for debriefing but he is not sure if these were > disinformation or geniune accounts of the history of the project. > There is another older man, in his late 50s as I recall, who claims > to have been involved in back engineering of a craft, I can't recall > his name but he claimed to have worked with a telepathic grey named > Jirod (Jay Rod). I'm not aware of anyone other than Bob Lazar making these claims. Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400008 Date: 02/03/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 12:49pm \/To: GEORGE JIRI OPLETAL (Read 2 times) Subj: My stand on UFOs [...] > The energies are not as extreme as some people would like you to > think. The reason we can only see a 0.75C quasar is because the > particles horizon is only about 15 billion ly in radius. The > universe is far far larger with higher speeds the further out we > go. Yet the 15 billion year time limit, ensures we can only see > that far into space. Anyhow, this was obtained through a faster > than light expansion of space-time early on and is not very > relevant. Since we a discussion expansion through space-time not > the expansion of spacetime. I will post up the energy requirement > of a trip soon. George, Any faster than light travel our universe may have been involved with in or near the beginning of time (the Big Bang), is lost to us forever. Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400009 Date: 02/03/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 12:50pm \/To: CHARLES DANIELS (Read 2 times) Subj: My stand on UFOs >> ...But are the stars of a group that could have planets capable of >> supporting life as we know it? They would have to be of the G-2 >> class. > As I recall Sol is a G-4 star. I don't see why a class M or K > star > couldn't support life if the planets were closer, or why a B star > couldn't if the planet was further away. Each star would have > it's > own "life zone" where a planet could exist that could provide it > with earth-like conditions. Charles, My recollection is that Sol is a G-2 star. Other stars may not be suitable for carbon-based life. Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400010 Date: 02/03/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 01:13pm \/To: IVY IVERSON (Read 2 times) Subj: [1/2] Speculations & fact >>>> Part 1 of 2... > -=> On 02-01-98 09:50, Jack Sargeant said to Troy H. Cheek,<=- > -=>"About Speculations...,"<=- > -=> On 27 Jan 98, concerning _Speculations_, Jack Sargeant said to > -=> Charles Daniels in UFO: > Hi, Jack; > You have stumbled into an area qhwew I have a bit of proven > expertise. > JS> Even if communication was established tomorrow via radio telescope, > JS> our reply would take years to arrive on their home world. two-way > JS> communications would be impossible. A chess game would take longer > JS> to play than our solar system will last. > True, if it were in another part of the galaxy, however if it were one > of our close neighbors, like Alpha Proxima at 4+ light years, it would > "only" take a little over 8 years to get an answer, (or the next move > in the chess game). Well, that would be nice, but somehow, I suspect the grand design of things in the universe manages to keep other sentient life just out of reach of mankind. We do know that another similar race with similar technology is either not interested in us, or is further than 100 light years away. [...] > At the rate our sociery is deteriotrating, I wonder if we, (the > human > race), will still be around in 100 years, let alone 10,000. :-< > JS> ...And how far can a radio > JS> signal travel before the ethers absorb the last weak remainder of > JS> a broadcast? Our Explorer missions are just now at the outer reaches > JS> of our own solar system. > Yes, and they are using less transmitter power than a flashlight > bulb, > and less than a CB (4 watts output). > JS> Could another civilization tens of thousands of light years away > JS> still detect our radio emissions? > Yes, if they have radio telescopes equal to ours. > JS> A distant Pulsar can radiate a signal billions of times stronger than > JS> the strongest radio signal man has ever broadcast (approx. 200,000 > JS> watts for the strongest radio stations). I don't know what the limits > JS> are of radio telescopes, but I would guess at about 100,000 watts. > ERROR! A UHF TV station is limited to one million watts (ERP - > Effective > Radiated Power), and there are international broadcast > transmitters, such > as the ones used by VOA that exceed that power level. OK by me. > JS> ...And I doubt if a radio telescope has actually been built that > JS> can transmit at more than a thousand watts. > Even if the transmitter FEEDING the radio telescope only puts out > 1,000 > watts, the antenna has gain, and can focus it into a beam with the > strength, (ERP), of several million watts! What is the gain factor of a large dish antenna? > JS> TV stations that transmit > JS> to satellites for re-broadcast back to earth certainly don't require > JS> more than a few thousand watts of focused power. ...Maybe even less > JS> than a thousand watts. > Actually, the ground transmitters which feed "the birds" only use > around > 20 watts to the antenna, and IIRC, the transponders in the "birds" > use > about 10 watts to cover the entire U.S. But the dish antennas > that are > used effectively multiply those power levels many times. How many times? > JS> (A 4 watt CB radio signal can travel about > JS> 30 miles under perfect conditions, and a few thousand miles under > JS> "skip" conditions, where the signal can bounce off one of the > JS> atmospheric layers. > Actually, they are limited by terrain, not distance. When Sputnik > Jr, > the 40-year memorial of the first manmade object in orbit, was > transmitting last year, I heard it with a handi-talkie when it was > OVER > 1,000 miles away, and it was only transmitting 200 miliwatts: TWO > TENTHS > OF ONE WATT! But I could only hear it when it was above the > horizon. My tests with 4 watts on the best possible terrain (water), resulted in less than 40 miles. The altitude of the antenna also has a major bearing on distance. ...Both local altitude, and general altitude above sea-level affect transmitting distances when line-of-sight is a factor. > JS> A ham radio operator may use approx. 10 - 1,000 > JS> watts, and transmit anywhere from 2 meters down to 80 meters on the > JS> radio frequencies alloted to amateur radio.) > ERROR! Ham radio operators have talked accross the Atlantic and > Pacific > oceans using ONE TENTH of a watt to their antennas! Hams have > bands > ranging from 160 Meters, (1.8 to 2 MHz) up to literally LIGHT! [...] (stuff about various frequencies alloted to hams.) > BTW, Hams have talked accross both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans > using > LESS THAN ONE WATT OUT OF THEIR TRANSMITTERS! One of the call-signs in my immediate family is KF4ICR (the other I forget.) ...And I too have talked around the world on 4 watts (11 meter band, using a super-laser 500 beam antenna on a 80 foot tower). > The frequencies below about 50 MHz are used for local and > international > communications, the higher frequencies are used for local, > satellite, >>>> Continued to next message... --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400011 Date: 02/03/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 01:30pm \/To: IVY IVERSON (Read 2 times) Subj: [2/2] Speculations & fact >>>> Part 2 of 2... > Moonbounce, and point-to-point communication. The 6 Meter, (50-54 > MHz), band, is borderline: it is generally local, however when > conditions are right, it can be used for worldwide contacts. This can be said for ANY frequency, but only a few are used on a regular basis. The best radio propagation occurs between 500 kc - 30mhz. The higher frequencies are not as conducive to "skip" propagation. > (You are reading a message from an Extra-class Ham - the highest > Ham > license issued by the FCC - a level that fewer than 10% of all > Hams ever > attain, and while I, like you, can only speculate about UFOs and > ETs, but > when I speak of Ham Radio, (or electronic communications in > general, since > I earned a Radiotelephone 1st class license over 30 years ago, and > have > worked for several AM, FM and TV stations, including as Chief > Engineer of > one), I know whereas I speak!) La de da! O;-) ...And your taglines are STILL too long, Ms 1st. class ham. ...But you wore me out the last time, so don't comment. > :-} Thanks for reminding me we are off-topic. Go stand in the corner. > JS> Just a simple, "Hello, out there!" might take a thousand years to get > JS> any kind of reply. ...And that is about all we dare to hope for. > ...Or less than 5 years if it's one of our "neighbors." > JS> How far into space can a radio telescope transmit to a similar setup > JS> on a distant alien world? Could a radio signal even travel 1 light > JS> year? ...Yet alone a thousand, or 10,000, or one million light years > JS> that may be needed. > As long as the receiving equipment is sensitive enough, there is > NO LIMIT > to how far a light - or radio - signal can be received! I would think the further into space a signal penetrates, the more dispersed it becomes. There must be a limit somewhere! > JS> I'll tell you a secret feeling of mine, Troy... Sometimes I lose my > JS> optimism altogether! The grand design of the universe seems to keep > JS> us separated from our sentient neighbors at just the distance equired > JS> to prevent communications. > Sorry, Jack, but our current technology _CAN_ communicate over > multi-light-year distances! The only problem is how long it takes > for > light, (or radio waves), to reach the destination. There has to be a limit, in my opinion. > JS> So, now we have our UFOs... They must be from another world, because > JS> we don't have anything like them, right? > Wrong, though IMO that's the more likely of several theories, > especially > after talking personally to several contactees/abductees I have > known. Aha! ...But now you are getting away from the factual, probable and even the willing to accept, and have joined the ranks of the speculative folks (like me). > JS> Small wonder that skeptics dare ask, "OK, then how did they get ere?" > JS> "Um, er, well, you see, it's like this..." > Simple. Their technology has discovered things that ours > hasn't... yet. More speculation. > JS> The imagination of mankind needs no skimpy boundries like light speed > JS> or worm-holes, or warp-9, or FTL to get from one place to another. > JS> ...But even our own Captain Kirk had enough sense to confine his > JS> travels to just our own Milky Way galaxy. > No worm-holes? How about DS-9? :-] I knew it... You have crossed over the line. > But then, one is always free to dream! :-} > JS> EARTH TO JACK! ...Ok, already! I'm baaack! > Sittin' right here waitin' for ya. :-> > Catch you later... Keep l00king up! > Ivy Nice discussion! Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F2400012 Date: 02/03/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 01:39pm \/To: DAMIAN STEELE (Read 2 times) Subj: Speculations > Hi Jack! > JS> Using known physics as a guide line, Returning the information found > JS> on earth to their home world, the aliens would be communicating to > JS> relatives far into their own future. Whoever sent them on their osmic > JS> mission would have a wait of thousands of years for the results of > JS> said mission. ...It almost seems pointless. > What's the point of using "known physics"? Surely what you refer > to is a > human standard and has little to do with the possibility of alien > races. > If we /have/ been visited by beings from another world, then it > stands to > reason that they have capabilities far beyond our own and could > quite > easily have developed "machines" (or other word of your choice) > that are > outside our experience. These machines may use a completely > different form > of propulsion to anything we have even thought of. Maybe they > have harnessed > the power of tachyon particles and can therefore travel at speeds > greater > than the speed of light and consequently can time travel. Who > knows? The > only thing that we can be sure of is it is folly to think of their > technology in terms of human physics and abilities. Practicality dictates we follow the line of physics we are familiar with. Anything beyond these limits is pure speculation. "What ifs" are fun, but non productive. ;-) Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12)