--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1W00042 Date: 01/26/98 From: CHARLES DANIELS Time: 11:45pm \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Area 51 Alien Interview Has anyone seen Area 51 Alien Interview or know of a newsgroup where this video is currently being discussed or could be introduced as a subject of conversation? Thank You. --- FMail 0.98 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT! 916-452-9501 (1:203/42) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1W00043 Date: 01/26/98 From: ADAM MAJER Time: 11:23am \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 3 times) Subj: Mars Rock, Earth Rock, Ma JS>Scientists theorize that a meteor struck Mars eons ago, knocking JS>a rock into space which eventually found its way to Earth. JS>What if the rock had originated on Earth, a meteor struck Earth, JS>knocked the rock all the way to Mars, where another meteor then JS>struck Mars, knocking the same rock all the way back to Earth. JS>...Seems just as feasible to me. If a posibility of a meteor hitting Mars is one in a million then a possiblity of what you describe above is at least one in a trillion. ;-0 * SLMR 2.1a * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it? --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: -= The Dragon's Lair =- (204)269-2164...Wpg.MB (1:348/943) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1X00000 Date: 01/26/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 11:40pm \/To: JONO (Read 3 times) Subj: bbs > how do i upload stuff to noel??? don't i have to make some > directories > or something??? thanks xickless (cause dale xucked it off) > --- Ezycom V1.20 > * Origin: CSS Brisbane, Qld, Australia. (61-7-3367-3890) (3:640/ > 350) Roger, please send routed netmail to the above address requesting access to UFO be denied this person, and his pal too. Jack Sargeant, Moderator -=UFO echo=- --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1X00001 Date: 01/26/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 11:42pm \/To: PAUL ANDINACH (Read 3 times) Subj: Aliens are us? > Hi, Jack. > Some of the posts from the UFO Update mailing list are > interesting. Is there any way to receive the posts directly so I > don't miss anything? > Paul The next time the instructions are posted by the news group, I'll bring it to your attention. Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1X00002 Date: 01/27/98 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 02:53pm \/To: MICHAEL HOLT (Read 3 times) Subj: UFOs & Art Bell > Actually, Jack, such a device was flown in 1961. > It was touted as something totally new in airships. The device > was > intended to be used in Canada to life large logs out of logging > camps. > At least, that was initial use of it -- there were photos at the > time > of such an operation. I remember seeing that on TV. > Structurally, it was two dirigible-shaped hulls connected at one > end > to form a V. Then, across the open end was placed a cylindrical > gasbag. > The control cabin was suspended just below the point of the V. > The first one used small hulls -- I think about 200 feet long. > But there > is no reason it couldn't have been made larger. Was that the one that had the revolving gas bag for stability? > Today, instead of using small reciprocating engines as did the 60s > device, > we'd use a few small turbine engines. The sound from those could > be > masked more easily. > Such a airship, built properly, would be invisible to radar for > all > practical purposes and almost silent. The problems with it are > that it > requires a ground crew and a place to be maintained. And, if > found > by practically any airplane, would be easy to follow. > This last point is worth following. Why, if there's a large > flying > object sighted over any large city, doesn't the local police > department > send out their airplane to have a look? What happened to all the > General Aviation pilots in events like that? Well, the Phoenix incident was a night-time sighting. No comment from the police, etc. > Michael > ... Are cats supposed to thump when you dry 'em in the dryer? Yes, but to eliminate that, use the microwave instead. Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1X00003 Date: 01/28/98 From: IVY IVERSON Time: 12:16am \/To: PAUL ANDINACH (Read 3 times) Subj: Occam's turning in his gr -=> On 01-25-98 09:43, Paul Andinach said to All,<=- -=>"About Occam's turning in his gr...,"<=- -=> Quoting Ivy Iverson to George Jiri Opletal <=- Hi, Paul; If you are talking ABOUT me, why not say it TO me? II> What can I say? The non-believers use Occam's razor to slice away the II> meat, the believers use the same instrument to slice away the bone. II> IOW, if it doesn't fit someone's PERCEPTION of the "facts" it is thrown II> out and disregarded or evidence - imaginary or not - is searched for to II> discredit what they dislike. PA> . . . II> ... Skeptic's Cleaver: Hack off any nonconforming evidence. PA> What can I say? Ivy Iverson doesn't know what Occam's razor is. Excuse me, but I DO know what Occam's Razor is, HOWEVER the way it's used by both believers and non-believers, (in UFOs and ETs), it's used to slice away that which THAT PERSON does not believe to be factual and/or believable. It is not used according to definition, to "slice away" everything but the simplest explaination. PA> Occam's Razor: PA> PA> Given a choice between two hypotheses that explain the evidence PA> equally well, go with the hypothesis that's simpler. For example, we all know that both the planet Earth and the Moon are spheres, however to a primitive, not only is the Earth flat, but so is the Moon! After all, since we always see the same side of the Moon, and it appears as a flat disk when viewed with the naked eye, the application of Occam's Razor says that the simplest explaination is that the Moon, (and the Earth), are flat disks! Of course this is erronious, however it is how the universe was viewed by primitives, and, (here is the point), it is this same application of the slicer that is used in the ET/UFO dispute. The non-believers feel that either it is impossible for ETs to visit us or they simply don't exist, so "the razor" dictates that they aren't here. The believers, OTOH, accept at least a FEW of the pictures which allegedly show UFOs, (though many if not most are fakes!), and that the testimony of those who claim to have been abducted MAY have some degree of truth, and reject the "razored" explainations. PA> Occam's Razor is used to slice away *hypotheses*, not evidence. You PA> can't use it to slice away evidence, because it only comes into play PA> when the evidence has already been collected. True, however many people just refuse to accept ANY evidence contrary to their preconcieved beliefs, and claim that they are using Occam's Razor! PA> Admittedly, some people do ignore evidence they don't like, or PA> search only for evidence to support their view. Alas, this happens. PA> But Occam's Razor has *nothing* *to* *do* *with* *it*. But they CLAIM it does!!! PA> Paul "If I see that elementary mistake one more time, I'll scream" PA> Andinach Elementary? What's obvious to one person, another is blind to. PA> ... It always helps if you know what you're talking about. Do I detect an implied insult here? Catch you later... Keep l00king up! (You might see a UFO!) Ivy ... If you believe, no proof is needed; if you don't, no proof is sufficient. -- -=[ Ivy's WALL BBS <-KB9QPM/AE-> Hi, Jack! <-> Happy New Year to All! ]=- ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- TriToss (tm) 1.03 - (Unregistered) * Origin: Ivy's WALL BBS - Sheboygan, WI 920-457-9255 (1:154/170) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1X00004 Date: 01/25/98 From: GEORGE JIRI OPLETAL Time: 10:34am \/To: DAVID BLOOMBERG (Read 3 times) Subj: Meier Hoax DB> In a msg to George Jiri Opletal on , Jack DB> Sargeant of 1:379/12@fidonet writes: DB> JS> The Meier photos have been debunked, and are considered fakes by uch DB> JS> of the UFO research community. Much of what I had on Meier was lost DB> in DB> JS> a hard drive clash I had. Perhaps another reader of this message ill DB> JS> have something they can post about the Meier photos. DB> Date: Thu Jan 06 1994 22:19:00 From: Michael Corbin To: All Subj: DB> Billy Meier Busted... INFO.PARANET ------------------------------- DB> The following was taken from the latest Video Underground Catalog. DB> For further information on this, contact them at Box 527, Beverly DB> Hills, CA 90213-0527. DB> UPDATE ON THE BILLY MEIER CASE DB> Recently Underground Video began an in depth inquiry into the most DB> publicized UFO case in history. Our investigation first began as a DB> supportive effort to verify the known facts of the Meier case to Interesting stuff. What gave it away is that I found 2 photos from Switzerland, 3 months apart and extremely similar. No one is that lucky. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: Beyond Reality: UFO/Paranormal Archives (03) 9773-3721 (3:632/562) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1X00005 Date: 01/25/98 From: GEORGE JIRI OPLETAL Time: 11:18am \/To: SHEPPARD GORDON (Read 3 times) Subj: evidence Hello Sheppard, SG> In a message dated 01-19-98 George Jiri Opletal wrote to SG> Jack Sargeant: SG> GO> Take for example the Tehran sighting I have discussed with some of SG> GO> these people. It has been dismissed by the peopl for the following SG> GO> reasons SG> I forwarded a multi-part post in SKEPTIC that you ignored. Why? SG> (Several people responded to it, so it certainly did make it out SG> around the world.) I did indead respond to it. It seems mail makes it quicker to U.F.O then Skeptics from my place. It should be through very soon, here and in skeptics. SG> GO> 1) the document is false. Simply untrue when you can make a FOIA SG> GO> request to the DIA for it yourself. SG> Funny, if you bothered to read the article I posted there, you would SG> have seen that the document was never classified by the MAAG, but a SG> _copy_ was indeed classified by one of the US entities it was sent SG> to (labeled "classified" -- the LOWEST security level). Right, it was 'classified' and leaked (at first). So? SG> Nevertheless, it remained (and remains) unclassified by the MAAG. SG> In other words, you make a big deal out of it coming out of FOIA, SG> whereas it has always been available. Documents do not need to be above top secret to show valid uof events. The reason I state that it is obtained under FOIA, is to explain to people that it is a valid government document. SG> Indeed, a copy was leaked to the UFO group NICAP and reprinted SG> in NICAP's November 1976 issue of its 'UFO INVESTIGATOR.' So? SG> Funny that you should bring up anonymous peopl (sic) whose questions SG> you argue with here -- when your initial argument has problems and SG> you ignore the facts (as reposted in the SKEPTIC echo) showing SG> that the information was available -- unclassified -- by UFO groups SG> mere days after the report was issued. Your reading of the document you posted. The report was orginally released to Charles Huffer in 1977 (some time after the leak, not days as you claim), and he had trouble obtaining it. (Source: Timothy Good) SG> Some might conclude that this is a straw-man argument you've set up SG> just to knock down. Nonsense. You keep going on about the low classification of the document. So what? A more important point is the complete rubbish Klass states about the event it in his book. He concluded that the object was Jupiter and the second object coming out of it was a meteor. He said that the pilot tryed to shot at a meteor which seemed to head towards him, missed and it crashed into the ground. HOWEVER, two objects came out of the primary craft. The one the landed softly on the ground (mistake #1, no talk of a crash, as a meteor would have) traveled straight down from the craft (mistake #2, the object the he claims crashed (meteor) never went near the F-4) to the ground (mistake #3). The other object the followed the F-4 and in the report, it stated they tryed to fire of AIM-9 Sidewinder (mistake #5 he claimed a range of 2miles for the missile, it about 10 miles), never crashed but returned to the primary craft (mistake #6). Now this is information from the original report which he had. A great deal of his arguement was based on what the Iranian papers had to say. However, these paper were not the primary source of evidence unlike the report. Thus even Klass claims the the report is more reliabe than the papers: 'Despite this disclaimed from an unidentified "official source", it seems prudent to put more credence in the Mooy memorandum, since it is based on notes taken during the debriefing of the second F-4 crew' Now if you read the documents properly, you should of picked up these obvious mistakes. SG> GO> 2) some made the claim that it was 2nd hand evidence fowarded by an SG> GO> governmental FTB observer in Iran. SG> It _is_ second-hand evidence. Moreover, subsequent interviews SG> with the flight crews found them contradicting themselves -- SG> something you are either unaware of, or decided to ignore from that SG> article repost in SKEPTIC. Rubbish, it never states the in the Klass article. Any discrepancy is due to Klass basing his arguements on the less reliable newspaper information (which I again remind you, he knows are less reliable). SG> You should return to the SKEPTIC echo and reread that multi-part SG> article, which clearly shows that your claims are based on limited SG> and inaccurate information. I have and I have posted a response. I hope you do not ignore it. You just opened up a can of worms for yourself, Sheppard. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: Beyond Reality: UFO/Paranormal Archives (03) 9773-3721 (3:632/562) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1X00006 Date: 01/25/98 From: GEORGE JIRI OPLETAL Time: 11:45am \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 3 times) Subj: My stand on UFOs JS> What does your moderator believe about UFOs and aliens? JS> I believe there are other races in the universe that are of various JS> degrees of advancement, and just as intelligent as we are. I believe JS> there are thousands of other intelligent races, because there are JS> that many stars in the heavens to allow for those kinds of numbers. Sure... JS> Of these thousands, I also believe that those with a high degree JS> of technology probably are humanoid in appearence. I believe that JS> these other races are just as isolated from each other as we are JS> from them. I believe their physics are the same as ours, and have JS> the same restrictions involving how fast they can move between JS> places. Ok, so we had ETs which can exceed out technological abilities. Naturally, the laws are the same everywhere. JS> I do not believe we have been visited by aliens from outside our JS> solar system because of the distances involved. I don't think this JS> will ever happen. This line completely stunned me. What problem do you see with the 'distances involved'? Some ship voyages used to take a year or so using the wind and there are about 1000 stars within 50 ly of earth. Nothing impossible about it. I only feel that it is not a good arguement to hold. JS> I do believe there is a possibility that we will establish contact JS> via radio some day with at least one other race within the next JS> thousand years. Exactly the same problem as above, even worst in some respect. Communicating with a star 100 ly away would take 200 years per message. Where as, a trip using relativitic velocities could get real occupants to the other planet in a far shorter time (and not with exceedingly large energies). JS> I believe our very own technology is responsible for 99 percent JS> of all valid UFO sightings. ...In the form of aircraft our JS> government is keeping secret from us. Not from what I read. The government was just as confused as any civilian back in 1952 (I have over 50 doc from the Central Intelligence Agency from the year, and this agencies is lost to explain the phenomena) JS> I say these things to you with the same regret a parent feels when JS> they disclose the truth about Santa Claus to their children. Pity, there are obvious impossibilities about Santa Claus doing his work every Christmas. JS> ...Now back to my normal speculation about Martians and other JS> aliens. Have fun and enjoy your fantasies about aliens, but come up JS> for a breath of fresh air occasionally. What is the purpose of moderating an echo, when you do not believe the general contents of what is discussed. This for me is merely an interesting hobby amongst hobbies, justified by the shear potential of the information available, if the hypothesis is true (ie. greatest discovery in history, no doubt). However, the Extraterrestrial/ufo connection is so extraordinary, that I had on many occasions felt the urge to dismiss the possibility out of hand. However, I feel its too important to let go, unchecked. JS> No, Virginia, [...]! JS> Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: Beyond Reality: UFO/Paranormal Archives (03) 9773-3721 (3:632/562)