--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100008 Date: 12/30/97 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 05:59pm \/To: MIKE PELL (Read 3 times) Subj: ACC story >> Ok. I seriously doubt the truthfulness of the information, but let's >> just assume that those news are true. >> Have you any idea what kind of data did the oh-so-wonderful Alien >> Artifact contain? They must have examined it throughly, right? >> Where on the net can I find more of that subject? >> (except http://american-computer.com) > I know the information is presented and addressed in > alt.paranet.ufo, and > I think Jack is getting some via EBK's UFO Update site (of which I > do not > know the URL or subscription to the list for. Try: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100009 Date: 12/30/97 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 09:00pm \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 3 times) Subj: more ACC > JS> > Jack, > JS> > Has The American Computer Company actually been verified to exist. > > I've never heard of it. > JS>"They" have a website (for what that's worth). Look back a few >posts in here and you will find it. I do know there has been >no mention of it on CNN, which stays on in the background while >I am on the computer. I read a lot more about it than I post on >here, and take it all with a grain of salt. It is generally true >that many UFO believers are a little more gullible than most, so >I guess its some kind of scam. > I thought I detected a slight aroma when I read it. I suppose > that this > will be another one that the government folks grabbed just in the > nick > of time... (sarcasm intended ) > Regards, > Ron It could be just plain, brash commercialism. Pretty effective, too. A small computer manufacturer becomes swamped with orders overnight? Methinks the joke's on us. Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100010 Date: 12/30/97 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 09:05pm \/To: TROY H. CHEEK (Read 3 times) Subj: evidence > Concerning _evidence_, Jack Sargeant said to Troy H. Cheek in UFO: >>> >> The "skeptics" do not have to provide any >>> >> special evidence to back up their own claims (e.g. "I won't do your >>> >> researc for you.") >>> RT> >>> RT> I think that is fair... the believer is the one making the claim. >>> He RT> should be the one backing it up. Convenient for the skeptic, no >>> doubt, RT> but nevertheless, thats the way the world works. > JS> >>> If one person is required to back up his claim, why isn't the other? > JS> > JS> Troy, I have to agree with Ron on this one. > Then answer the question. Why is one person required to back up > his claim while the other isn't? It depends on the claim being made. The obsurdity of the claim takes precedent. In most cases, it's the skeptic challenging the claim of a believer. That's why a speculation should always be preceded by a disclaimer. This is a great hinderance to the skeptic. :-) Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100011 Date: 12/30/97 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 09:11pm \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 3 times) Subj: Skeptic's corner. > JS> > I remember the thread very well. If I remember correctly he did > > get someone to do some testing but the thread died before we heard the > > results... [sigh].... same old story. > JS>Pat Parrinello may have been the one you are referring to. > Pat was the one I was referring to. What happened to him and the > tests? > Seems it was getting very interesting and then I lost track. I > enjoyed Pat's posts.... he presented the believer agenda in a very > believable manner. > Ron He has an internet website. Here are a couple of old addresses that may still work... http://www.republic.net/~pparri E-mail: pparri@republic.net Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100012 Date: 12/30/97 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 09:14pm \/To: GEORGE JIRI OPLETAL (Read 3 times) Subj: Sighting, 1 of 2 > JS> > After observing an airplane (a regular jet airliner) pass above and > JS> > right by the object, (though well above it), after the plane left > JS> > the object it suddenly for a split second got momentarily > JS> > brighter and separated into TWO objects! > JS> > After this second object dissolved out the larger, primary one then > JS> > started moving and headed straight East towards the mountains > JS> > of the Bay Area over the city of Milpitas and southern Fremont. > Very interesting similarity with the official DIA version of the > Tehran sighting.... > 'the pursuing f-4 continued on a course to the south of Tehran > when another brightly lighted object, estimated to be one half to > one third the apparent size of the moon, came out of the original > object' > This second object display a great deal of movement over the > original. This is one of the better sightings that still begs explaining. Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100013 Date: 12/28/97 From: PAUL ANDINACH Time: 09:27pm \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Flying Saucers -=> Quoting Jack Sargeant to Paul Andinach <=- > HP> A fifty year old case. An experienced pilot, Kenneth > HP> Arnold, saw a train objects that flew extremely fast > HP> from his private aircraft. They didn't look like aircraft, > False. In fact, Arnold's initial conclusion was that they were > some new kind of winged aircraft. JS> Arnold described them as crescent-shaped objects bobbing up and down JS> like saucers do when skipped across water. My statement is based on an interview with Arnold by a respected reporter, in which Arnold was very keen on setting the record straight. JS> A reporter picked up on JS> this, and coined the phrase "flying saucer." This began the POPULAR JS> use of the term "flying saucer," regardless of the usage of the term JS> in past times as you have suggested. I didn't mean to suggest that. I know that popular use of the term began with Arnold's interviews. I was trying to say that reports of vehicles that could be described as flying saucers predate that, even if they weren't called "flying saucers" at the time. Regards, Paul ... Gotta run. My neighbors just sighted Elvis making crop circles. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR] * Origin: The Perth PC Users Group BBS - 08-9497-7772 (3:690/650) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100014 Date: 12/30/97 From: PAUL ANDINACH Time: 01:28pm \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Skeptic's corner. -=> Quoting RON TAYLOR to TROY H. CHEEK <=- THC> Probably just got lost, although some alien artifacts reportedly THC> disappear their own (angel hair, slime). I *might* encountered angle THC> hair once, but didn't know what it was at the time, so I didn't take ny THC> samples. RT> I don't know what "angel hair" is or how it is related to UFO's. Is RT> it some substance that has been linked somehow to aliens? "Angel hair" is one of those things that mysteriously falls out of the sky at intervals (allegedly), along with frogs, rocks, blood, red snow, straw, eggs, etc. It's been described as a fine, thread-like substance, but little is known about it and it's never been analysed because it has a tendency to crumble to nothing if handled. It has no known link with aliens, apart from it being technically an unidentified substance that spends time airborne. Paul ... ACME Tagline Co. Ltd. Inc. Genuine Exploding Tagline. 5... 4... 3... 2... --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR] * Origin: The Perth PC Users Group BBS - 08-9497-7772 (3:690/650) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100015 Date: 12/28/97 From: PAUL ANDINACH Time: 09:29pm \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Circumstantial evide -=> Quoting RON TAYLOR to JAMES ROOT <=- JR> I really don't see any distinction or comparison between witch hunts and JR> UFO sightings. RT> Me either, but I didn't bring it up. It was used as an argument in RT> favor of accepting circumstantial evidence.... I think. Jack Sargent asked X (read "Paul's too lazy to dig into his records and find out who X was" :) ) why five people would be laughed at if they reported a UFO with only circumstantial evidence, but taken seriously if they reported - again with only circumstantial evidence - that X had killed a friend on a fishing holiday. X asked for examples of people having been convicted and punished on circumstantial evidence alone. I cited the Salem Witch Trials, and made a TIC comment that some people might not like the suggestion that there was some similarity between witch hunts and UFO sightings. Paul ... Call a witch doctor; my witch is sick. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR] * Origin: The Perth PC Users Group BBS - 08-9497-7772 (3:690/650) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100016 Date: 12/30/97 From: PAUL ANDINACH Time: 01:29pm \/To: TROY H. CHEEK (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Carl Sagan on UFOs -=> Quoting Troy H. Cheek to Paul Andinach <=- FA>> I find it amusing that dozens of highly educated people are FA>> dismissed as foolish, and warped, fantasy prone, missing the facts, FA>> yet one man, is God. One man cannot be in error. PA> Indeed, that's a very amusing idea. Where did you get it from? THC> From various "skeptics" who will agree with just about anyone who says ... and so on. Yes, but I asked because I got the impression that that's what he thought that I thought. PA> Sagan's statements are based on evidence that can be followed, tested, and PA> reproduced. THC> Have _you_ followed them? Tested and reproduced them? It's a fair cop, guv. No, I haven't, because I'm too lazy; but because Sagan lists his sources I can go and find out if he's telling the truth, should that become necessary. He knows that by listing sources, he makes it possible to check on his statements, and that's an incentive to tell the truth. The fact that he has listed his sources and made himself subject to verification makes him more trustworthy, because it suggests he's not trying to hide something. PA> As opposed to, say, somebody who believes that they met an alien. PA> Where is the evidence? How can I know that he's telling the truth? THC> Where's the evidence that mixing vinegar and baking soda produces THC> carbon dioxide gas? Sure, you can test it yourself, IF you have THC> access to the materials. However, if you don't have access, you can't THC> test it, so you don't really know one way or another. Maybe, if you THC> see enough claims by other people who do have access and say that it THC> does happen, you'll believe it. But you don't, for instance, say that THC> because you can't test it, it doesn't happen. I'm not trying to say that because I can't test it, it doesn't happen. I'm trying to say that because I can't test it, I can't be as sure as some people seem to be that it does happen. The baking soda's a bad analogy, because it doesn't, in the big picture, really matter to my life if I believe in baking soda. A visit by aliens would have wide-reaching ramifications, so I have to be more cautious. Paul ... "It's only a crime against humanity. We have no jurisdiction." - _Melissa_ --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR] * Origin: The Perth PC Users Group BBS - 08-9497-7772 (3:690/650) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: F1100017 Date: 12/31/97 From: IVY IVERSON Time: 10:15am \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 3 times) Subj: A surprize from the -=> On 12-28-97 08:36, Jack Sargeant said to Ivy Iverson,<=- -=>"About [2/2] A surprize from the...,"<=- Hi, Jack; JS> I had a flying saucer sighting in 1953. II> Was it a FLYING SAUCER, (specifically round and flat), or was it a II> UFO, JS> Round and flat. JS> I never said it was flown by aliens. I didn't say you did, did I? But if not, then by who? II> Did it appear to be intelligently controlled? JS> Yes. II> please speculate on who was at the controls? JS> Me? Speculate? OK... ...Little green men. AH HAH! So you now consider the POSSABILITY that it was being controlled by "someone/thing" from "somewhere else"? Got any OTHER possabilities? JS> I did say I didn't think we had that kind of technology back then. II> But you would have no way of knowing - unless you worked at Area 51, II> that is. (And I'm reasonably sure that you didn't and didn't know II> anyone that did). II> JS> Not all people who believe in UFOs think they are piloted by II> aliens. Ya, I have one living next door to me... He would rather believe that a UFO is a flock of birds/airplane/temperature inversion/mirage/cloud/ baloon/Venus/the Moon behind a cloud/meteor/an overdose of painkillers/ someone's prank/his imagination than to CONSIDER the POSSABILITY, (however remote), that something which he and 1,000 other people saw and showed up on 8 different radars COULD be piloted by intelligent beings from "somewhere else"!!! I really believe that if he were to see a UFO land in the back yard, saw occupants come out, talked with same, then watched them go back in and fly away, he would be over here accusing me of putting LSD in his drinking water or something. (He denies this). II> Granted. However recent surveys indicate that a majority of II> Americans now believe that ET's do exist and that they ARE visiting II> us. JS> Do you? What do you think they are here for? I do not discount the possability, in fact, I consider it a very strong possability, based upon several things which I believe I have elucidated here in the past. JS> It's fun to think about it though. II> Yes, and a lot of people do think about it, ranging from abductees II> to authors of books, movies, and folk who post in this echo. JS> Our resident skeptics don't believe such. Like the one next door... Is he a skeptic or an FNB? :-} Catch you later... Happy New Year to you and yours! Ivy ... It don't look like they're here to deliver the mail... -- -=[ Ivy's WALL BBS <-KB9QPM/AE-> Hi, Jack! <-> Happy New Year to All! ]=- ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- TriToss (tm) 1.03 - (Unregistered) * Origin: Ivy's WALL BBS - Sheboygan, WI 920-457-9255 (1:154/170)