--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00011 Date: 12/20/97 From: JACK SARGEANT Time: 09:25am \/To: KEN KUBOS (Rcvd) (Read 3 times) Subj: Hunt for the alien as > -=> Quoting Jack Sargeant to All <=- > JS> Jack > JS> Ask your sysop to pull in BAMA, where all the UFOs are going > I'm Exec-PC, organization at its start was running 300 Lines on > his BBS. > It's now in 20 Lines and is the greatest provider to Wisconsin and > I > think in Illinois. Unfortunately, Exec-PC refuses to pick up > BAMA. > think it something like, "We don't think our BBS is the backbone > of our > business." > ... Ken Kubos Ken, I cannot understand this message. Say it in slightly different words. I'm a little thick-skulled this early in the day. Regards, Jack --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: -=Keep Watching the Skies=- ufo1@juno.com (1:379/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00012 Date: 12/20/97 From: MIKE PELL Time: 09:53am \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 3 times) Subj: more ACC > Me too. Some are already champing at the bit to challenge the > scientific viewpoints expressed in the presentation. I expect > the Christmas mail rush is holding up the printed text I have > ordered. Yes, I imagine the mail orders will be a bit congested at this time of year. Good things are worth waiting for! I am sure Mr. King will debate the issues with you on Bama. It should make for good debating material non-the-less. Haven't seen anything new from ACC as the chatter of late is about a patent they are after and replies from others about some numbers ACC is putting out that are questionable. I'll keep an eye out for the Roswell related stuff. Cheers, Mike | AmiQWK 2.9 - FREEWARE | ... --- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 5 Beta * Origin: The GameBoard BBS - 9056893982/9409 - BurlingtonONCANADA (1:244/506) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00013 Date: 12/20/97 From: MIKE PELL Time: 09:53am \/To: JAMES ROOT (Read 3 times) Subj: pyr info Hello James, I see you have surfaced again. Will you be around for a while? I have some more pyramid material for you I could send here, Bama, or e-mail. I didn't see a response to my last inquiry to you about 3 or so weeks ago. I am not sure if you are lurking or busy elsewhere. Let me know and I can make arrangements to send you the posts somewhere. Cheers, Mike | AmiQWK 2.9 - FREEWARE | ... --- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 5 Beta * Origin: The GameBoard BBS - 9056893982/9409 - BurlingtonONCANADA (1:244/506) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00014 Date: 12/20/97 From: JIM DAGON Time: 03:27pm \/To: JAMES ROOT (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: f -> continued if you feel that they are helping you. I have personally -> been through such experiences in my personal investigations of the -> occult and all I can say is that one treads on possibly dangerous -> ground. By "dangerous ground" I mean that one could be swept up with -> the experience and allow it to get out-of-hand in certain ways. If -> you don't allow it to affect you, then you can remain in control of -> it, and that is the important thing. The same thing goes for UFO -> research and investigation. One must try to keep an open and honest -> mind about the entire matter. Otherwise one could become -> unfortunately ensnarled in many dissallusions. The "incubus assaults" -> are only possible if a "portal" is left open. If this "portal" is -> made available then it allows the spirit to enter into your plane of -> existence.Just form the image in your mind that all the possible -> portals are now closed and locked, and that should do it. Then you -> can get on with some serious research and investigation into UFO -> matters!:-) . I understand what your saying,this only happenened during my late teens and at a point that i now remember when i read a very detailed Aliestar Crowley book,with magical drawings,etc,also the Necronomicon,Satanic Bible but i read these only as curio's so could the "portal" have been opened by them? I remember always having enough willpower to completely repel the spirit and even at the begening of the assault when i had the mental choice to recieve a message or not.I knew if i heard its voice that was the end so all three times this happenned i managed to resist. I know some disilliousinment came from this though mabey as i seem to feel trapped in this world and feel my true home is an "alternate earth" or an "mirror earth" that is very simular to this Earth but very magical,pagan and is completely alternate and surreal. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0530 * Origin: * Collector's Edition * Dallas, Texas USA (1:124/6610) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00015 Date: 12/19/97 From: TROY H. CHEEK Time: 08:38pm \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Skeptic's corner. Concerning _Skeptic's corner._, RON TAYLOR said to TROY H. CHEEK in UFO: THC>> You're assuming that if tangible alien evidence was found, preserved, and THC>> made public, it would be accepted as such. RT> RT> Yes, I suppose so. But then I would have to consider ANY evidence, RT> wouldn't I. What tangible evidence, certified alien or otherwise, RT> is available to substantiate a UFO event? Alleged implants, saucer debris, objects damaged by UFO's or aliens, personal injuries caused by UFO's or aliens, etc. Please note that "alleged" is meant to apply to all the items listed. RT> There is lots of talk about I-beams, little grey people, implants, RT> radioactive/magnetic fields, etc... but where are they. Mostly in the possession of the people who collected them, who are mystified that all the people who claim to want proof continue to ignore them every time they say they have proof available. Background: a post went around a while back concerning a "sting" operation in England where police broadcast a fake message stating that a UFO had crashed in a certain location. When several people showed up at the crash site asking about the UFO, they were promptly arrested (hint: don't take your police scanner with you when you visit England). My alleged point: a couple of the skeptics here immediately classed these people as UFO fanatics with reality problems, as who else would go out to see a reported crashed UFO? It seemed to me, and still does, that it's more likely they were simply thrillseekers or, possibly, skeptics who were actually willing to look at proof when it was presented. Naturally, the skeptics here didn't see it that way. RT> They always seem to belong to someone else (a fellow I know?)... All the UFO's I've seen were out of arm's reach, else some might belong to me. I've not, to my knowledge, been abducted by aliens or government researchers or anybody else. My own personal opinion is that, assuming that UFO's really are alien spacecraft and somebody really is abducting people, these event soccur much less often than is commonly claimed, and the few real stories (if any) get repeated and expanded upon ad infinitum. RT> have been lost... Which happens to a lot of things not related to UFO's. I'd love to show you the meteorite which landed in my grandfather's field back before I was rn... RT> mysteriously disappeared... Probably just got lost, although some alien artifacts reportedly disappear on their own (angel hair, slime). I *might* encountered angle hair once, but didn't know what it was at the time, so I didn't take any samples. RT> were taken by strangers (this one REALLY blows my mind)... Or by law enforcement officers or alleged government investigators. RT> but no one has anything to even be tested, much less tested positive alien. One poster in this echo several years ago had an alleged implant that he offered up for testing. He found that none of the people clamoring for proof were willing to pay for such testing, and no lab was willing to do it for free. He also found that no lab was willing to guarantee that the implant would not be destroyed in the testing process. I.e. a "destructive test" which would probably consume the entire sample, leaving no possibility of a duplicate test at another lab to verify the findings of the first. (Which spawned a lengthy argument in and of itself. Would a single lab test which clearly showed something to be of alien origin but destroyed the sample be sufficient? My slant on the subject was that people would automatically assume the lab made an error, deliberate or accidental, no matter what the prestige or past reputation of the lab and/or scientist performing the test.) Another factor is that some skeptics simply do not believe that a person could start out a skeptic and then, though exposure to evidence or circumstances, be convinced that UFO's are anything other than misidentified mundane objects. So convincing one skeptic, or a thousand, or a million, will not suffice, as the remaining ones will simply lump those who were convinced by evidence in with those who believed without any. >> o error? Any type of alloy, isotope ratio, functioning electronics, tc >> that can run tests on, we can also create in the first place. RT> RT> I'm not a scientist, but my understanding is that isotope ratio testing RT> is a reliable way to ascertain origin. How 'bout it George??? I'm not a scientist, either, but I did take quite a few physics and chemistry courses. Naturally occurring isotope ratios are used in several areas of science to determine place of origin, time since an event, rainfall levels, etc. The key word, however, is "naturally". It's also possible to change the isotope ratio, such as in uranium when it is enriched. Which is a whole lot of words to wade through (and I apologize for not taking the time to make this message short) to get to this question: Specifically what evidence would be necessary to convince you that UFO's were of alien origin, or that alien abductions actually take place? ... "The Unabomber was turned in today by his brother, the Unasquealer..." --- JetMail 0.99beta22 * Origin: When Starlings Mate - Benton, TN (1:362/708.4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00016 Date: 12/19/97 From: TROY H. CHEEK Time: 09:37pm \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: evidence Concerning _evidence_, RON TAYLOR said to ALL in UFO: RT> skepticism also scepticism; noun: RT> RT> 1. A doubting or questioning attitude or state of mind; RT> dubiety. See Synonyms at uncertainty. RT> RT> 2. Philosophy. The doctrine that absolute knowledge is RT> impossible and that inquiry must be a process of doubting RT> in order to acquire approximate or relative certainty. RT> RT> It seems to me that this definition is not the commonly accepted one in RT> UFOlogy. Rather, it seems that the skeptic, to UFO believers, is one RT> who believes that aliens do not exist and that "believers" and RT> "skeptics" are diametrically opposed. True believers, it seems, feel RT> that skeptics are calling them liars, frauds, or idiots. RT> RT> Please do not impose that definition upon me. I am not a UFO believer.. RT> yet I do not believe that aliens do not exist. Simply, I neither RT> believe nor disbelieve. From my experience, the majority of us who are RT> deemed "skeptics" indeed fit that philosophy, not the one described in RT> the preceding paragraph. From my experience, unfortunately, the majority of those who claim to be "skeptics" haven't read your dictionary. Or mine, as I've posted similar definitions in the past. Mine included a definition to the effect that a skeptic was one who questioned commonly held beliefs. These "skeptics" I have encountered seem to view their own beliefs as some type of worldwide consensus. Anyone who seeks to prove (or even mention) a claim contrary to the consensus must present overwhelming proof that is immediately available and obvious to the "skeptic". Failure to do so means the claim and claimant are without validity. The "skeptics" do not have to provide any special evidence to back up their own claims (e.g. "I won't do your research for you.") as the consensus reality is considered self-evident. The "skeptics", rather than questioning, actually end up defending what is being questioned. Being used to this sort of "skeptic", it's only natural that anybody posting something in UFO is going to experience some knee-jerk hostility towards anybody who does not wholeheartedly accept what they are saying at face value. Don't take it personally. I get it myself from time to time. ... "The universe has an attitude, mom." -Calvin --- JetMail 0.99beta22 * Origin: When Starlings Mate - Benton, TN (1:362/708.4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00017 Date: 12/21/97 From: TOM COLLINS Time: 02:17am \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 3 times) Subj: The day the earth JS> The entire film was "on target" in my opinion. Have you read the short story on which the film was based? It has a much different ending. Tom ... But you misunderstand, I am the MASTER. . . ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- InterEcho 1.19 * Origin: The Oasis BBS: (817) 613-9002 (1:130/716) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00018 Date: 12/18/97 From: THOMAS KORNMAIER Time: 10:32pm \/To: GERSON LAGE (Read 3 times) Subj: Does Anybody Read This? g'day Gerson! GL> Test! reply! :) GL> Do you folks receive this message? think so. .cya. thomas --- FMail 1.02 * Origin: smokin'? (2:2476/706) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00019 Date: 12/17/97 From: PAUL ANDINACH Time: 07:10pm \/To: FRED AUSTIN (Read 3 times) Subj: Skeptic's corner. -=> Quoting Fred Austin to RON TAYLOR <=- FA> This phenomena has each individual's FA> interpretation, it's only characteristics. The only commonality is FA> the word UFO......... And even that has different meanings depending on who you ask. Paul ... Fatal Error Using Mouse: (B)ury, (R)eplace, (F)eed to Snake? --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR] * Origin: The Perth PC Users Group BBS - 08-9497-7772 (3:690/650) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 221 UFO Ref: EGQ00020 Date: 12/17/97 From: PAUL ANDINACH Time: 08:26pm \/To: JACK SARGEANT (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Flying Saucers -=> Quoting Jack Sargeant to All <=- JS> From: Steven Kaeser . . . HP> From: Henny van der Pluijm . . . HP> A fifty year old case. An experienced pilot, Kenneth HP> Arnold, saw a train objects that flew extremely fast HP> from his private aircraft. They didn't look like aircraft, False. In fact, Arnold's initial conclusion was that they were some new kind of winged aircraft. HP> Nobody had after heard of flying saucers or UFOs or HP> whatever. Arnold just reports his observation. SK> Actually, there are many reports of UFOs prior to Arnold's SK> sighting In addition, Arnold's UFOs were nothing like "flying saucers" in the sense that the term is used today. And "flying saucers" were being described at least as far back as 1945, when Ray Palmer's _Amazing Stories_ magazine was warning people about the evil four-foot-high decendants of the the aliens who came in flying saucers 150,000 years earlier. SK> Of course both sides are making assumptions with the proposals SK> they are advocating (or suggesting) and since part of the SK> evidence is somewhat annecdotal there is no way to confirm it one SK> way or the other. I would tend to trust Arnold's initial SK> impression, that they were aircraft, and not particularly unusual, SK> and wouldn't accept the "geese" explanation without SK> more than a theory. I would tend to suggest that since part of the evidence is anecdotal and unconfirmable, it's not much use to any serious attempt to find out the truth about UFOs. HP> The debate goes on for weeks. People who have better HP> things to do waste their time on total absurdity. SK> Since we can't prove what the objects were, the only logical SK> conclusion that can be drawn is that they are UFOs. That's not a conclusion, it's a fact. If it's flying and you don't know what it is, it's an Unidentified Flying Object. If you can't prove what it was, it's best to leave it at that and not start speculating. Paul ... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR] * Origin: The Perth PC Users Group BBS - 08-9497-7772 (3:690/650)