--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGI00001Date: 12/13/97 From: BILL TRACY Time: 09:07am \/To: RAY ELLIS (Read 0 times) Subj: F O X W O O D S Ray, Thank you for your message. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding. RE> BT> Well, I can't agree w/U here. We all don't have access to the same RE> BT> news paper U have. RE> Please note that I said well-read LOCAL citizen. Local folks have RE> the same access that I do. That mey-be true, but I have't heard or seen any of the news papers U have read in the FOXWOODS area. I am sure that the local folks have the same access you have but I am not a local person and I have only been to FOXWOODS twice in my life. I hope t go neXT week. RE> The Mohegans were part of the Pequot Tribe in historical times. RE> Oh, the Mohegan Sun casino is about 5 miles away from Foxwoods, RE> as the crow flies. Oh yes, We have seen them advertise on T.V. I still don't know where they are actually located. BT> Native American Blood yes. I was born in Boston. Am I an Indian ? BT> A) No RE> Hey! GoodONya! You must have demonstrated against Columbus Day. RE> But did you go against Thanksgiving? What in the world? I didn't demonstrate against Columbus and I certainly wouldn't demonstrate against Thanksgiving. I would welcome the Indians and anyone else to join me. Bill Tracy --- FMail 1.02+ * Origin: Orion BBS "Where the Stars Hangout!" 508-970-0064 (1:324/272) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGI00002Date: 12/13/97 From: RAY ELLIS Time: 06:17pm \/To: BILL TRACY (Read 0 times) Subj: F O X W O O D S BT> Thank you for your message. I think there is a lot of BT> misunderstanding. Probably is, but if we keep talking, we'll work it out. BT> That mey-be true, but I have't heard or seen any of the BT> news papers U have read in the FOXWOODS area. I am sure BT> that the local folks have the same access you have but BT> I am not a local person and I have only been to FOXWOODS BT> twice in my life. I hope t go neXT week. The New London Day is the largest newspaper in the Foxwoods area. It's ubiquitous hereabouts. All you gotta do is stop into any restaurant, gas station or convenience store. Well, when you come down this time, tour the area a bit. Drive around. See the local territory. We're actually a small-town area in between big cities. BT> Oh yes, BT> We have seen them advertise on T.V. I still don't BT> know BT> where they are actually located. OK, they're about 5 miles west-southwest of Foxwoods. Foxwoods is on the Ledyard-North Stonington Border. Ledyard stretches to the Thames River. Right across the Thames is Montville. That's where the Mohegan Sun casino s. It's right on the banks of the Thames. (About 7-10 miles north of New London.) (Oh, and trying to find your way around here, be forewarned: I-95 runs east and west in this vicinity. It's right along the seacoast, from 1 to 2 miles inland.) BT> What in the world? I didn't demonstrate against Columbus BT> and I certainly wouldn't demonstrate against Thanksgiving. BT> I would welcome the Indians and anyone else to join me. I saw a neat quote in the paper right about Thanksgiving, something to the effect that "You see these picture of the Pilgrims carrying guns. Who do you think those guns were aimed at? MY people." This was said by a Wampanoag from your area who did demonstrate against Thanksgiving. I thought it was pretty apt. Sorry for the misunderstanding here, my enthusiasm got ahead of me. --- * Origin: Bits & Bytes BBS * V.Everything! * (860) 535-4284 (1:320/119) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGJ00000Date: 12/14/97 From: BILL TRACY Time: 12:20pm \/To: RAY ELLIS (Read 0 times) Subj: F O X W O O D S In a message to me you wrote, RE> Probably is, but if we keep talking, we'll work it out. U are probably right. RE> The New London Day is the largest newspaper in the Foxwoods area. RE> It's ubiquitous hereabouts. All you gotta do is stop into any RE> restaurant, gas station or convenience store. Well, when you come RE> down this time, tour the area a bit. Drive around. See the local RE> territory. We're actually a small-town area in between big cities. I will look for the newspaper. I hope t make a run down this week. I am not into gambling but I have a friend who has been very suc- cessful in leaving FOXWOODS w/ a few thousand in profits every time. When I come in from R.I. I am on I - 93 I get of at the EXIT and it seems that i drive through a lot of country before I actually arrive. U know what I mean. Are those homes and a few very small business places owned by the good Indian folks? FOXWOODS is almost actually in the state of Rhode Island. ^^^^^^^^ RE> OK, they're about 5 miles west-southwest of Foxwoods. Foxwoods RE> is on the Ledyard-North Stonington Border. Ledyard stretches RE> to the Thames River. Right across the Thames is Montville. RE> That's where the Mohegan Sun casino is. It's right on the banks RE> of the Thames. (About 7-10 miles north of New London.) (Oh, and RE> trying to find your way around here, be forewarned: I-95 runs east RE> and west in this vicinity. It's right along the seacoast, from 1 to RE> 2 miles inland.) Please excuse the lack of my geography knowledge of your area. I haven't seen any signs about New London, CT in my travels to the Casino. I have no idea where N.L. is. I did not see any water and naturally I do not know the location of the Thames River. I would doubt that an average traveler from Boston could follow your above directions and find "Mohegan Sun casino". They don't give directions on T.V. to get there either. There ad's need a great deal of improvement. FOXWOODS is a house hold word here in New England. Sun Casino is not. BT> What in the world? I didn't demonstrate against Columbus and I BT> certainly wouldn't demonstrate against Thanksgiving. I would welcome BT> the Indians and anyone else to join me. RE> "You see these picture of the Pilgrims carrying RE> guns. Sure, and why not. Back in those days (162O) those people had no idea if they were going to be attacked or not. Today is is symbolic. RE> Who do you think those guns were aimed at? Didn't they use guns to hunt with? I think so, and they wern't needed when the Indians shared ideas and planted corn with the pilgrims. RE> MY people." This was said by a Wampanoag from your area RE> who did demonstrate against Thanksgiving. I thought it was RE> pretty apt. I wish that U could go and visit PLIMOTH Plantation. This is in Manomet (South Plymouth) on River Street (EXIT 4) off of Route 3. U would have a more clear understanding of the history. Massassoit is featured as a friend of John and Priscilla Alden along with the rest. They don't show any interest of using guns against the Indian people. RE> Sorry for the misunderstanding here, my enthusiasm got RE> ahead of me. Ray, I too am sorry for the misunderstanding. Neither of us should feel responsible for the actions of others no matter who they are. None of the original people are alive since 162O. All we really have is history and sometimes twisted facts to rely on. This is for both the Indian and the other folks sides reference. Ray, I am pleased to know that I am writing to an American Indian and I wish you MY very best. Merry Christmas, Bill --- FMail 1.02+ * Origin: Orion BBS "Where the Stars Hangout!" 508-970-0064 (1:324/272) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGL00000Date: 11/29/97 From: DOUG CARTER Time: 09:15am \/To: KEN KALLOCH (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Star knowledge -=> Quoting Ken Kalloch to Doug Carter <=- KK> Hi Doug, One web site that might interest you is related to the KK> "Lakota Star Knowledge", the address is: KK> http://indy4.fdl.cc.mn.us/~isk/stars/starknow.html Thanks muchly, Ken... BTW, I think this is the first time we've met... service has been up and down, not to mention my time... As you may have seen in my note to Roslyn... I hit that just a little differently based on an old note... let me know if you find anything on more 'down to earth' [pardon] science... Howvever, don't spend any time on it, since I'm surfing actively... I was asking about stuff in other places as well as the net... Doug ... KLEIN Bottle For Rent: enquire WITHIN. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Renegade v5-11 Exp * Origin: A Place Between Time and Space...The Continuum BBS (1:353/353) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGM00000Date: 12/16/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 11:30am \/To: BILL TRACY (Read 0 times) Subj: Fidonet future BT> Nice to talk to you, See if I saw you on the street and I BT> stoped to speak with you, you wouldn't listen to me. U would think I BT> am a strange man, and you would keep going. U don't stop to talk in BT> depth with a stranger one right after another in person as U do here Whether I talk with a stranger or not depends on where I'm at. You see, I'm still close enough to Philadlephia to be influenced by the tendency there to talk to total strangers while you're waiting in the checkout lines at stores, and in the landramats, and places like that. I probably wouldn't stop to talk with a total stranger in the street, however. That's way too dangerous! Sondra -*- MM 1.0b4 Unregistered MailMaker - Your Windows offline reader! --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGM00001Date: 12/16/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 11:30am \/To: CHARLES MURRAY (Read 0 times) Subj: who was the 1st ? CM> 1st question! Why is everything alwways racist when not in tota CM> agreememt ? 2nd question Where did "Native American's come from It is racist dribble when almost all the quotes come from known (and in most cases self proclaimed) white racists, and not from anthropologists and archaeologists, and when those same white racists obviously lack the education, experience, and knowledge to come to a reasonablly valid conclusion about the information they are misquoting, misinterpreting,and misrepresenting to make it jive with their white racist viewpoints. CM> When I posted this I assumed someone would call me a racist . CM> Never the less let's make one thing clear here, that being My p CM> the Cherokee are a raceless people, they are mixed with many bl CM> lines even black as you may well know ! It may well just be tha CM> "caucasians" where in the America's frist and mixed with others CM> came later as there breed died off . That is Mormon teaching .. 1) The Cherokee are not a raceless people. They are Indians. Many folks, however, who belong to Cherokee groups that are not recognized by either state or federal governments (and some that are recognized by state, but not federal governments ) are not Indians, and, in reality, not Cherokee either. They are whites whose latest claim to cherokeeism is a mythological white great great great grandmother whose birth ceritficate and journal were burned in a fire seventy five years ago. 2) I know the Mormons teaching about Indians quite well, including the fact that their skin was turned dark as punishment for their sins. However, they don't have the pre-Indian Jews coming over here 9,000 years ago. They have it happening about 3,000 years ago. After all, the world was only created about 6,000 years ago. CM> Caucasians are not all "WHITE" as all negros are not "Black There are no such things as white, red, or black races. Those are just common terms used by common people. Anthropologists refer to the Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongolgian racial groups, subdivided into many races, characterized by differences in skin coloring, bone density, shape of head and body, presence and absence of body hair, etc. For example, Caucasians are much closer in appearance to apes, in many ways, than either Negroid or Mongolian people, for they have a lot more body and facial hair than the other two groups. similar to the apes; and their leg/torso body ratio is closer to the ape than the other two groups. Of course I'm not saying here that they are actually closer to the apes than the other two racial groups. I don't happen to believe that. CM> Many scholars believe Egyptions were in South America long befo And many scholars disagree with this. It depends on who you read, and what axe they have to grind. CM> the "European" settlers came to north America. Leif Eriksson al CM> was reported to have came to north American between 970 -1027 A CM> my information comes from the... Academic American Encyclopedi And the Irish were here in the 700s, both according to their own mythology, and accroding to some archaeological ruins. And it looks like the American Indians were, by that point, already trading by sea going vessels, with Japan. Probably folks have traveled from one continent to another from the beginning of human time, a possibility certainly reinforced by the finding of the caucasian skeleton here, and other similar skeletons in other parts of the world, including the discovery in the middle east of a ruins that proves that neanderthal man and current humans not only lived at the same time in history, but lived in the same towns together, from all appearances peacefully. The past was never as simple as some people would like to make it. Sondra -*- MM 1.0b4 Unregistered MailMaker - Your Windows offline reader! --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGQ00000Date: 12/20/97 From: DOG PATCH Time: 01:14pm \/To: CHARLES MURRAY (Read 0 times) Subj: testing this is a test !!! --- Renegade v5-31 Exp * Origin: DOG PATCH USA * CHATTANOOGA TN * 423-867-5971 (1:362/309) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGQ00001Date: 12/18/97 From: CHARLES MURRAY Time: 03:19pm \/To: SONDRA BALL (Read 0 times) Subj: who was the 1st ? -=> Quoting Sondra Ball to Charles Murray <=- SB> There are no such things as white, red, or black races. Those are SB> just common terms used by common people. Anthropologists refer to the SB> Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongolgian racial groups, subdivided into many SB> races, characterized by differences in skin coloring, bone density, SB> shape of head and body, presence and absence of body hair, etc. I think you answered this one for me ... ie no red race ! SB> discovery in the middle east of a ruins that proves that neanderthal SB> man and current humans not only lived at the same time in history, but SB> lived in the same towns together, from all appearances peacefully. SB> The past was never as simple as some people would like to make it. SB> Sondra Now we come to the missing links , make the jump from neanderthal to modern man please ? And what about ole John Ross ? .--~~,,__ ....,-------`~~ ._.' `-,,, ,_ ;'U' _,-' ,'`-__; '--. (_/'~~ ''''(; ... DOG PATCH USA * CHATTANOOGA TN * 423-867-5971 * 1:362/309 --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGS00000Date: 12/19/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 01:07pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: beats Beats by Sondra Ball drum beat heart beat drum beat heart beat drum beat heart beat heart beats drum beats through our fingers through our ankles blood is flowing making life lines through our bodies drum beats heart beats through the currents of the air waves thoughts are flowing over mountains over rivers heart beat drum beat heart beat drum beat heart beat drum beat copyright sondra ball -*- MM 1.0b4 Unregistered MailMaker - Your Windows offline reader! --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EGX00000Date: 12/26/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 09:28am \/To: CHARLES MURRAY (Read 0 times) Subj: who was the 1st ? CM> SEEN-BY: 362/701 923 396/1 3615/50 51 3804/180 CM> -=> Quoting Sondra Ball to Charles Murray <=- CM> SB> There are no such things as white, red, or black races. Those CM> SB> just common terms used by common people. Anthropologists refe CM> SB> Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongolgian racial groups, subdivided in CM> SB> races, characterized by differences in skin coloring, bone dens CM> SB> shape of head and body, presence and absence of body hair, etc. CM> I think you answered this one for me ... ie no red race ! There is also no white race. There are Indians and Caucasians. Race is not determined solely by skin color. CM> SB> discovery in the middle east of a ruins that proves that neand CM> SB> man and current humans not only lived at the same time in hist CM> SB> lived in the same towns together, from all appearances peacefu CM> SB> The past was never as simple as some people would like to make CM> Now we come to the missing links , make the jump from neanderth CM> to modern man please ? No archeologist I know of believes there is a missing link between neanderthal man and modern man. They co-existed for a while; and even folks who believe firmly in evolution do not believe modern man came from neanderthal man, but that both came from a common ancestor. By the way, evolutionists and archeologists do not believe that either came from the modern ape, but that the modern ape is also a descendent of a common, no longer existent, ancestor. People who say, or simply imply, that scientists teach differently don't know what they are talking about. By the way, genetically, both modern man and the neanderthal man are/were closer to the modern ape than they were to each other. Genetically, both the neanderthal man and modern man are/were close enough to the modern ape they could have the sperm or egg of one united with the sperm or egg of the modern ape, and produce a viable, though probably sterile, offspring; but the two are/were genetically too diferent to have been able to do the same thing with each other. This indicates, but does not prove, that both Neanderthal man and modern man broke from the common ancestor at an earlier period in time than the modern ape did. And, by the way, yes, geneticists can take the DNA, and unravel the genetic code from a skeleton 500,000 years old CM> And what about ole John Ross ? What are you asking about him? I asume you mean the cherokee chief who opposed the forced relocation of the Cherokee nation. Sondra (who just happens to have majored in anthropology and sociology, and minored in biology, in college, and does have an idea of what she's talking about. -*- MM 1.0b4 Unregistered MailMaker - Your Windows offline reader! --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0)