--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00020Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:57pm \/To: LORRAINE PHILLIPS (Read 0 times) Subj: BIASED TESTS LP>And Innu do especially well in tests of shape-recognition because of >having learnt to recognize landmarks. That makes sense to me. LP>You were having a conversation with Jim (maybe it was Jim who initiated >it) about lack of actual meaty relevant discussions on this echo. For >my part, I've become discouraged. It seems that progress is never made >and the federal and provincial governments stall and stall. I, too, see that; and am sometimes discouraged. I expect that the situation in Canada, and in the US, is very similar. Even more frustrating than the stalling of the government, however, is the conflicts within the tribal councils and the tribal members themselves. LP>The federal cabinet minister for Indian Affairs, Ron Irwin, didn't even >run in the last election; he was probably plain burned-out. He seemed >sincere, but said he was hampered by a lack of money. Now, the feds >have got lots of (our) money, so when they say there's not enough money >for something, that means that they don't want to spend it on that >something. In the US, moneys for Indian issues is one of the major cut back items in the budget. LP>When Frosty Deere participated in this echo, there was more information >about political activities of Canadian native Indians. I miss Frosty here also. I am under the impression he no longer participates in anything FIDO. He does show up a lot on Native Network, if you can find a way of getting that. Jim Barchuk would probably have a list of BBSes that carry it. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a I am NOT illiterate. I know who my parents are. --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00021Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:58pm \/To: ROBIN ARNHOLD (Read 0 times) Subj: frustrating doctors RA>That's going to be a very interesting family in coming years in terms of >interpersonal dynamics. Wouldn't want to live in a family with such >strong expectations. One of my coworkers is a new grandma. The baby was >named 'Hunter' and his father expects him to grow up to love hunting. I >joked to Pat that it is possible Hunter will grow up to be an >animal-rights activist who is interested in music. I think it's damaging to a child to decide ahead of time what they are going to be (other than loveable, loving, well mannered, honorable, wonderful human beings, of course. We should expect *all* our children are going to grow up to be that!) Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a The ideas I stand for are not mine. I borrowed them. --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00022Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:57pm \/To: PATTI JONES (Read 0 times) Subj: Hello > Thank you so much.....yes, I do believe that he heard my good-bye also. >Matter of fact, when I went in to see him, I talked to him for awhile, and >when I started to leave, the doors wouldn't open. I tried pushing and >pulling, and knocking on the doors, but no one heard me. I finally had to g >out through the accordian pleated doors. When I saw the attendant, I sked >him why he had locked the doors. He assured me that with no effort at all t >doors would open. We continued to talk, but before leaving, I went back and >tried the doors, and sure enough, with two fingers, the doors opened. I am amazed at how often *unworldy* and *unexplainable* events surround a death. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a History is too serious to be left to historians. --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00023Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:58pm \/To: ROBIN ARNHOLD (Read 0 times) Subj: Hello RA>It is finally starting to get a little more typical around here >weatherwise. Although a bit late, summer has finally arrived after maybe It's downright hot around here. It hit 100 several days running; but only got in the low nineties today, because a *cold* spell moved through here. The True South Jersey, where I live, is also now in drought conditions. We had *no* snow this winter (although we did have snow in April); and we've had very little rain. Agricultural reports are advising farmers to irrigate. We are also being advised to limit our *unnecessary* water useage, but no water quotas have yet been instituted. North Jersey (and Central Jersey) are also dry, but not as dry as South Jersey. It's beginning to resemble two years ago, when we had the worst drought ever recorded in this area. RA> >I've spent a fair part of the weekend getting the air conditioners up > >from their storage place on the back landing and installed. I strained > >my back mildly lifting the first one into the bedroom window, so I > >decided to let the other one sit in the middle of the living room for a > >few days rather than risk a worse injury. Do take care of yourself. We don't have air conditioning in our house, so we're just sort of adapting, and sweating a lot. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a Every person you meet knows something you don't. Learn. --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00024Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:58pm \/To: LAURA THOMAS (Read 0 times) Subj: prayer request LT>My prayers are with little Brittany. I will also pass this on to my churche >prayer chain. Best wishes for the family and Brittany. Thanks. I will let you know the outcome when I know it. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a Often the test of courage is not to die but to live. --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00025Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:58pm \/To: ROBIN ARNHOLD (Read 0 times) Subj: religion RA>Most IQ tests, especially those administered to large numbers of grade >school students, are quite biased culturally. To put it in another >perspective, I don't think too many American kids would do well if the IQ >tests assumed a knowledge of such things as shadow puppets, Tibetan Grin! I can just see that test now. >prayer wheels, and stupas. Doilies, though, are pretty much a cultural >artifact now and not many people have them. I tend to associate them >with my grandmother, who crocheted many, many doilies over the years. I have a couple of croqueted doilies in one of my dresser drawers. An elderly woman gave them to me. I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do with them. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a Have you ever wished you could download a pizza? --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00026Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:58pm \/To: ROBIN ARNHOLD (Read 0 times) Subj: religion RA>Thank you, Sondra. I really do tend to shy away from discussing >literature, though, and I'm totally adrift when it comes to poetry--not >that I should really be saying this to a poet ! It Hey, I'm sometimes adrift in poetry, too. However, when that happens, I believe in myself enough to announce that the poem that set me adrift is "a terrible poem". After all, the purpose of writing poetry is communication; and if no-one understands the poem, then the poet has failed to do his or her job. >goes back to my freshman year at college. At the same time the kids in >the English lit class I was taking were coming up with all these arcane >insights into 'The Wasteland', which I had not heard of before taking the I started graduate school in English lit, but quit early on, without getting my degree. One of the things that annoyed me was the way everybody went around interpreting everything. Hey, to quote Freud, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." >invitation only. Of course, I went out and bought the book ('Stalking >Joy' by Margaret Benbow). After nearly 35 years, the stuff is still Yolu are a friend of Margaret Benbow! Impressive! Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a Ritz cracker found in drive A: Delete children? (Y/N) --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00027Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 12:32am \/To: JIM CASTO (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Stiya JC> SB> "I must admit that, instead, I was shocked and surprised at the sight > SB> that met my eyes. JC> A very telling statement... All _visual_. It says nothing about "lifeways", > "worldview", etc. A valid criticism. JC> I would expect much the same reaction from someone that was removed from > East India, sent to the U.S. (or England) for several years to school > and returned home. The young lady is returning to a poverty-stricken rea. > If an East Indian came to the U.S. to medical school, should not they be > appalled at the poverty conditions of their homeland? Her being initially appalled at the situation was not my concern. It was the refusal throughout the entire book to see anything at all good about the Indian way of life she was returning to. *Every* statement made about the Indians were negative; including, for example, *all* the native foods that were eaten. During the book, she finally persuaded her family to give up corn tortillas in favor of the much more acceptable biscuit. JC> SB> But the book continues in this vein: condemning the tribal > SB> governmental system as being brutal and dictatorial, expressing the > SB> hope that these "circumstances gives those interested in Indian > SB> education the hope that a brighter day may now be dawning, when the > SB> home conditions will be so changed that there will be no more tribal > SB> tyranny, but all will be under the protection and enjoy the priviledges > SB> of our good government." JC> Do we know for a fact that the tribal government _wasn't_ "being brutal and > dictatorial"? Had the tribal government in this case already been "corrupte > by the white man? No, we don't. Or at leastI don't. I did not research the book, beyond reading it, well enough to be certain. JC> SB> It condemns the Hopi dances as being evil. JC> I knew some Baptists that will tell you ALL dancing is evil. Grin! None of the Baptists I know feel that way, however. JC> SB> And, in the end, our heroine persuades her family to leave the pueblos, > SB> and build a small, white style house, elsewhere; so they could live n > SB> a more healthy and more cultured way. JC> Was that "more healthy and more cultured way" bad? Should she have let them > continue to live in what she perceived to be unclean and impoverished? I think she should have found at least some good in her traditional way of life. Even if much imrpovement was needed, the total condemnation of a total culture shows a real inability to look at the complete picture. JC> I can think of at least two other books/authors that look upon the Indian > school" period (or education or civilization) as a positive thing in heir > lives. JC> "They Called It Prarie Light" by Tsianina Lomawaima and one of the books by > Luther Standing Bear. It also seems to me that Jim Thorpe attended Carlisle > _voluntarily_ because of the sports programs. I will look them up. JC> Ever read "Century of Dishonor" by Helen Hunt Jackson? Originally published > in 1881. No. JC> I think that it is interesting that in 1881, the "American public" faced mu > the same dilemma as today. What _is_ the solution? I am struggling to find some sort of solution. And, to be perfectly honest, I don't have it, not even for all of my own people, let alone other peoples. I know, however, that an abandonment of culture is *not* the answer. Those who have tried have often ended up dead of an overdose. I also know that denial of modern technology, which has come from many sources, is also not the answer. JC> There was a BIG article in the newspaper the other day about the Lakota n > the Dakotas. O.K., now after reading the article, I know all about the > high unemployment, the poverty, the corruption in the tribal government, th > fact that their casino doesn't bring in as much wealth as the tribe would > like and casino expansion construction is halted due to some contractual > dispute, and some program to start a cattle industry failed because beef > prices have fallen, etc. I now know ALL of that. I also know that many of > the same phenomena are present ALL over the U.S. and the rest of the world. > The BIG question, however, is: JC> "What's the _practical_ solution?" Again, I don't know. But I think the answer will have to come from the Lakotas themselves. They will have to figure out how to create a winning situation for their own people. JC> Oh, in the book "Neither Wolf Nor Dog", the "elder teaching the white an" > has an interesting philosophy on what most "mainstream culture" people > would call "trash" or "litter" or "junk". I will need to read it before commenting on it. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a We are all works in progress. H. Jackson Brown --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00028Date: 06/27/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 12:32am \/To: JIM CASTO (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Stiya JC> I don't have all the unemployment statistics or poverty statistics for he > Warm Springs Reservation or the Grand Ronde Reservation here in Oregon, but > I _strongly_ suspect that they are MUCH different than any I read in the > article about the Dakotas. What's the difference between those reservations I know the Lakota are the poorest group of people in America. I do not know what, exactly, has caused this. I don't even know for sure why I survived the migrant worker world, and went to college, and became a writer; while other talented people died of overdoses; or gave up, and still work the fields today. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a What color is a chameleon on a mirror? --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: EAY00029Date: 06/27/97 From: KAY NEWMAN Time: 01:23pm \/To: PATTI JONES (Read 0 times) Subj: So very sorry Dear Patti, Was so very sorry to hear about your Dad. I am sure he heard your good-byes. I wish there was thing I could say or do for you. You are in my throughts and prayers. Please write when you have a chance would like hear from you. I have missed our chats. God Bless, Kay --- PPoint 2.02 * Origin: Kay's Place --Rochester, NY (1:2613/229.3)