--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00000Date: 04/26/97 From: JIM CASTO Time: 06:45am \/To: LORRAINE PHILLIPS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: PRAYERS -=> Quoting LORRAINE PHILLIPS to SONDRA BALL <=- PMFJI LP> Oh, very good observation! Though, without sarcasm, I'd prefer LP> nursing care over my 'nurse' praying for me if I were forced to choose. Actually, I have been known to throw hospital chaplains out of my hospital room. LP> I pray for someone, I tell them about it. I know that praying is LP> psychologically beneficial but I don't know how it works. The wife and I have a Shih-Tzu that was a Pet Therapist. My wife used to ake the pup to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. The medical profession doesn't now how _that_ treatment works, either, but it does. LP> I'm not LP> convinced of the existence or non-existence of 'god'. There, now that LP> should offend everybody. :) Not me. I'm an atheistic agnostic. (And, yes, according to my dictionary I _can_ be both.) Jim --- Blue Wave v2.12 * Origin: NorthWestern Genealogy BBS-Tualatin OR 503-692-0927 (1:105/212) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00001Date: 04/26/97 From: JIM CASTO Time: 06:46am \/To: SONDRA BALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: WHAT ARE WE? PART 1 -=> Quoting Sondra Ball to Jim Casto <=- JC> BTW, speaking of businesses.... The local paper (largest circulation in > Oregon) has an annual restaurant "contest". The winner this year pecialize > in Native American dishes and the owner's wife is Chippewa. SB> Grin! That's wonderful! And now a bunch from the NA support group at work is going to go there for dinner in May. Jim --- Blue Wave v2.12 * Origin: NorthWestern Genealogy BBS-Tualatin OR 503-692-0927 (1:105/212) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00002Date: 04/26/97 From: JIM CASTO Time: 06:47am \/To: CHARLES MURRAY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: what are we? part 1 -=> Quoting Charles Murray to Jim Casto <=- CM> No slavery was not part of the constitution there was no mention CM> of blacks they were counted as property! *Read between the lines* Sorry, Charles. That's part of the problem. Some people "reading between the lines" and interpreting the law to suit themselves. That's what courts are for. Sounds a lot like the reasoning that "the Constitution doesn't say I can't have an atomic bomb in my front yard, therefore it must be egal" argument. CM> message in this area . And to answer Sondra's question , NO it CM> does not take a village to raise a Child it only take ONE Then you are saying we can eliminate public schools, day care, child abuse laws, make child pornography legal, etc. ? I don't think so. CM> responsible adult unless you are a total socialist and all your CM> personal rights and freedoms have been taken away form you and CM> given to a all-powerfull central govermemt! What about the personal rights and freedoms of those that aren't strong enough to protect themselves like the children? CM> As for smoking Jim... Did me up when I'm dead and hang me ok ! Why would I even consider that? Jim --- Blue Wave v2.12 * Origin: NorthWestern Genealogy BBS-Tualatin OR 503-692-0927 (1:105/212) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00003Date: 04/26/97 From: JIM CASTO Time: 05:21am \/To: SONDRA BALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: what are we? part 1 -=> Quoting Sondra Ball to Jim Casto <=- JC> BTW, about a ban on tobacco... It would NOT break my heart if tobacco AS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > banned. Along with alcohol, sugar, soda pop, ice cream, chocolate, sparagu > turnips and rutabagas. SB> Asparagus??!! You would ban asparagus???!!!! No, I said it wouldn't "break my heart". I _could_ live without it. (My wife would have to "sacrifice", however. One of her choices of "banned" products would be cranberries. ) Jim --- Blue Wave v2.12 * Origin: NorthWestern Genealogy BBS-Tualatin OR 503-692-0927 (1:105/212) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00004Date: 04/26/97 From: JIM CASTO Time: 06:51am \/To: SONDRA BALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: what are we? part 1 -=> Quoting Sondra Ball to Jim Casto <=- JC> CM> so was slavery Sondra and many men died to keep it legal vainly JC> Uh, you want to be a little more specific as to where in the Constitution y > find that slavery was ever _legal_ under U.S. Constitutional law? The rst SB> Let's be fair, Jim. Non-free people counted as only a percentage of a SB> person in the constitution. That *does* imply slavery was ^^^^^ BIG difference between a statement that says the Constitution says slavery was _legal_ (as Charles "implied") and your statement that says the Constitution "implies". I won't disagree with a statement that says anything about what the Constitution "implies" (or "means" or "can be interpreted as saying"). BTW, the "implication" reasoning or the "but the Constitution doesn't say it's _illegal_ therefore it must be legal" reasoning usually don't hold much water when arguing a case before the Supreme Court. As for slavery... Several times prior to the Revolution several colonies on their own (such as Georgia, Delaware, Massachusetts and maybe others) had tried to ban slavery at one time or another. Slavery was an issue that the "founding fathers" (whom all Americans revere as wise old gentlemen and put them on pedestals) didn't have the guts to outlaw when they had the chance. Whether they _intentionally_ wanted to keep the practice is probably debatable. The practice violated every _natural_ law known to humankind and had been virtually unknown throughout the "civilized" world for a few hundred years before the Europeans decided to revive the practice in the Western Hemisphere. The "founding fathers" did not have the nerve to declare it legal in writing in the face of world-wide opinion. After all, the Revolution was a "fight for freedom" was it not? How could they write "all men are created equal" and also write "slavery is legal in the United States of America"? It wouldn't look good to the rest of the world. So they ignored the issue and hoped no one would notice. SB> constitutional. So does the Dred Scott decision. A couple of things about the Dred Scott decision: 1. It didn't actually legalize slavery. It said that under the Constitution blacks weren't citizens and therefore had no right to sue therefore Dred Scott had no case to argue about. 2. It overruled Congressional action of the Missouri Compromise by syaing Congress didn't have the authority to pass such a law. 3. The majority of the Supreme Court justices were southerners. 4. The Chief Justice was southerner Roger Brooke Taney. Today he would more than likely be classified as a "racist". 5. Taney was appointed to the Supreme Court by Andrew Jackson. (I'll let you make up your own mind about Jackson. ) 6. Buchanan was a "wishy-washy" president that endorsed the Taney-led court decision and fueled the slavery conspiracy theory. The "don't make waves" policy. 7. No one (to my knowledge) has ever said that the Dred Scott decision was correct or fair. And it is not the only time the Supreme Court has made some really BAD decisions. Every once in awhile someone comes along and hallenges a previous Supreme Court ruling. BTW, the case I am going to write about for my term paper in my U.S. Constitution seminar is: Washington State v. the Yakima Nation heard in 979. It deals with Public Law 280 and tribal jurisdiction in legal cases. Jim --- Blue Wave v2.12 * Origin: NorthWestern Genealogy BBS-Tualatin OR 503-692-0927 (1:105/212) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00005Date: 04/26/97 From: JIM CASTO Time: 06:55am \/To: SONDRA BALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Maybe you can help.. -=> Quoting Sondra Ball to Dennis Martin <=- SB> I remain suspicious of anyone teaching a general class in native SB> spirituality. A thought occurred to me about the class Dennis described. It sounds a lot like an Anthropology class I took. I don't recall that the course description said anything about "spirituality". I strongly suspect that in _some_ areas of the country that simply including the phrase "Native American spirituality" in a course description or title would draw in more students. (Actually, it would cause me to reject the offering. ) Jim --- Blue Wave v2.12 * Origin: NorthWestern Genealogy BBS-Tualatin OR 503-692-0927 (1:105/212) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00006Date: 04/26/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:39am \/To: CHARLES MURRAY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: what are we? part 1 CM> No slavery was not part of the constitution there was no mention > of blacks they were counted as property! *Read between the lines* I agree with you here, Charles. It is pretty clear to me that slavery *was* constitutional. > And to answer Sondra's question , NO it does not take > a village to raise a Child it only take ONE responsible adult unless > you are a total socialist and all your personal rights and freedoms > have been taken away form you and given to a all-powerfull central > govermemt! Do you *really* belief ONE responsible adult by him or herself can raise a child. What about when that person is ill? What about when that person has to go to work? What happens if the rest of the community is trying to teach the child *bad* behavior. Do you really think the ONE responsible adult can always persuade the child to resist consistent peer, and adult, pressure to do wrong. Will you need to depend on farmers and book publishers to meet some of your child's needs? Does a child need peers and more than one adult to socialize with during the years between birth and 18? Will a baby-sitter ever be needed, even if it is only a grandparent, or an aunt, or an older sibling? Will the ONE parent be able to not only teach their child at home, but to prepare the curriculum as well? If the child does go to school, and the child lives outside of walking distance from the school, will the child need a bus driver to take him or her to school, or will the ONE parent do it? What if a medical emergency arises? Will the ONE adult be able to handle skillfully and quickly everything needed to save the child's life, including complicated brain surgery if that should be called for? Will the ONE adult be able to teach the child all the vocational skills he or she will need to know to be competent in his or her chosen vocational field, regardless of what that field is? Will the ONE adult be able to master all the skills necesary to keep the house running smoothly and safely for the growing child, including such things as carpentry, cooking, masonry, plumbing, etc.? Will the ONE adult be totally self sufficient so far as obtaining the food they need (growing his or her own garden, slaughtering his or her own animals, etc.) so that the child does not starve? As I said before, Charles, I know of NO cultures that do not recognize the responsibility of the community in the raising of children. And I strongly suspect that ANY culture which did not recognize that role would not long survive, and I'm not talking just as a culture either. All its kids would probably be DEAD in a very short while. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a He who hesitates is lost. Look before you leap. --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00007Date: 04/26/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:39am \/To: CHARLES MURRAY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: no more from me Question number one: Did you find all these quotes in a single book? If so, what is the name of that book? And the author? I notice references to several people, but the writing *style* indicates some sort of over-riding authorship. If that is so, who is the author who brought all this data together? And in what book? CM> 16th Amendment Not Ratified I am going to print this out and take it to my library. I'll see how it holds up to some research. I'll get back to you. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a My sore throats are always worse than anyone's. - Austin --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00008Date: 04/26/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 07:39am \/To: KAY NEWMAN (Read 0 times) Subj: Back > I will be off of here from Monday till Thurs. Will be back on Firday. We >will be in NYC on medical trip. So you're going with Bill this time? Have fun! > Please add me to your prayers as I didn't get good news from Dr. yesthday. >I have been very tried since January and they couldn't find out what was >wrong. I have been put on estrogen pills for a month. I have two periods n >one month. They don't know why. It could be change of life as I am in my >early 50's. They want to see if estrogen will help if not will try thing >else. Bill was right there when I was talking with Dr. so he found out ore >then I was telling him as I was keeping alot to myself. But I firgured it wa >time he knew too. I will certainly add you to my prayers. I hope the estrogen works. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a Backward ran sentences until reeled mind the -- Gibbs --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.7 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E4W00009Date: 04/26/97 From: LORRAINE PHILLIPS Time: 12:16pm \/To: SONDRA BALL (Read 0 times) Subj: PRAYERS Hi Sondra... -> Although my oncologist was/is a firm believer in the power of prayer -> (as was/is my surgeon), both were very competent physicians, and both -> are instructors in their specialities at a medical school. I would -> not have considered having it any other way. I've now uploaded 704 medical literature citations, with abstracts where available, from Medline. These came up under prayer and/or distant healing ('distant healing' was an alternative heading suggested by the system I use, Compuserve's Paperchase). Medline is a data base of citations from more than 4000 medical journals going back about 30 years. Anyhow, I've just scanned these citations and I see some very encouraging papers: eg, a paper that reported favourable results for 'intercessory' prayer in a coronary care unit, favourable comments about 'petitionary' prayer and a paper that says those who visited Lourdes reported less depression afterwards, papers that found people were using 'alternative' therapies in combination with mainstream medicine. One paper found that persons diagnosed with AIDS reported a 16% frequency of using 'alternative' therapies before diagnosis, and a 100% frequency of using 'alternative' therapies after diagnosis...! Anyhow, I'll go through the abstracts properly and send you a more detailed message. -> One nice thing about both my surgeon and my oncologist: both believed -> there was more to healing, or failure to heal, than just the -> medicine. Very good! The neurologist that I see wasn't trying to take credit for my 'remission' (AKA 'misdiagnosis') but another specialist was making congratulatory noises about the neurologist when describing my condition to another doc. I loathe these insinuating doctors. :( --- PCBoard 15.2 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)247-7900 (1:134/10)