--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2M00004Date: 02/15/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 03:25pm \/To: LORRAINE PHILLIPS (Read 0 times) Subj: FOREIGN AID LP>A fellow who worked for the UN told me that foreign aid is money sent by >poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries. LP>There's also 'aid' money given with the stipulation that it be spent on >goods from the donor country (Canada is notorious for this), which >amounts to a subsidy of industry in the donor country. LP>Our 'aid' money might even be used for something of dubious value to the >receiver country, such as dams that displace thousands of people or deep >wells that actually increase desertification by further lowering the >water table in already dry areas. :( Foreign aid is often aid to industries, and a way of controlling the population, more than aid to the people. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a One golden day redeems a weary year. Cecil Alexander --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2M00005Date: 02/15/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 03:25pm \/To: CHARLES MURRAY (Read 0 times) Subj: what are we? part 2 CM> I also believe in everything in it's own place , culture is a powerful > tool and no one should be denied there culture . Everyone is someone, > a soul, a being and has a place , no one is better than anyone else > but it is sometimes the way a person like myself says something they > sound like a racist or bigot because I used strate language . I never > tried to lie or make you think I was something other than I am . But > I did go into extreams on a few points . I do believe that a people are entitled to their culture. I think there are very few American Indians who would disagree with you on this issue. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it. --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2M00006Date: 02/15/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 03:25pm \/To: LORRAINE PHILLIPS (Read 0 times) Subj: HISTORICAL RESEARCH LP>'Primitive' warfare is more ritualized and kills far fewer people. The >idea of two men clobbering away at each other until one was dead would >have struck 'primitive' people as thoroughly stupid, and rightly so. The >current notion is to fight to the death. The older idea was to survive >the encounter, and live to fight another day. It depends on who the "primitive* peoples are. The *primitive* Europeans, in the anciet Greek city staes, and in the Middle East, were known to have totally eliminated defeated villages, killing every man, woman, and child; and burning the villages. If millions were not killed, it's because they lacked the means to kill millions, rather than because they thought better of it. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a Regret shall be the gravel underfoot. Sandburg --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2M00007Date: 02/16/97 From: PATTI JONES Time: 10:16am \/To: SONDRA BALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Hello Sondra, With the roomie moving out, it will make things a bit more challenging to recover form having been out of work for a month, but I can make it.....it'll just take a bit longer than I had planned. But like always, I try to keep things in prospective and think that at least se was here for the time I was out of work which helped me to make it through. Second stage winter weather warnings, Traveling at 10 mph over the Santa Fe and Oregon Trail In four wheel drive. Bitter winds Blowing ice and snow. Unable to circle the wagons Not enough time to stop for a bite to eat at McDonald's. Just thought you might enjoy that little bit of my trip to work one day in the winter weather. I do believe that sprigtime will come very soon. Mother Nature was trying her best to over ride winter with a bit of rain last evening. I went for Sushi last night and now all I need is a few UV rays from the tanning bed, and I think I can make it through the rest of the winter. The new job is going very well. They are opening a new place the middle of next month and want me to go to work there. It will be back in the same neck of the woods where I worked before, which means more miles and travel time....which means I will ask them for more money when I make my decision to go. I asked what I would be doing there, and they said to be certain that things go smoothly, everyone covers their shift, and the company attitude goes to the new place. Seems we have a couple of youngsters that work there that can't see the big picture, and complain about having to work the schedule that they were hired for. Out of four weekends that I'm not supposed to be working, I have been off one because the 'kids' have called in sick. But when I have called them later to see how they are doing, it seems they had their answering machine on and didn't call back for an hour or so. Once I started chatting with them about something other than their illness, they seemed pretty chipper for someone that had a high fevera nd had been vomiting for the better part of two days. Fri night I went out and drank too much, and then didn't get to bed until 2:30, and got a call at 7:30 to go in to work. I wouldn't have minded too much, but my head felt like it was the size of a watermelon. Still I made it through ok, and was glad it was a 6 hour day and not my usual 9.5 hour day. This morning I slept in until 9:30 and have scads to do before I finally get into bed tonight. I can't complain too much though, at least I have a job. One Friday I got to go to an Aqua Massager which was pretty cool, and for Valentines Day, the boss gave me a red heart box of chocolotes and a gift certificate for a facial and a manicure. I told the office manager that I never mind helping out so long as I'm treated well, so maybe they got the picture. Gotta' run for now and get some laundry done, bird cages cleaned, car cleaned out, and students grades calculated since it's the end of a semister for them. All just so I can get ready for work again tomorrow morning...... Patti --- * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (816) 361-7670 (1:280/76) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2N00000Date: 02/18/97 From: BOB POLK Time: 06:44am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Nez Perce Wonderful front page story in the Oregonian this morning regarding the Nez Perce of Washington building a horse herd, taking them back to their historic riding days. They have also purchased land in Oregon in the area of their old grounds. Bob --- OLX 2.1 TD Turn your PC into a Fisher Price; type WIN * Origin: WCS Online! - WCS Software Doors and MORE! (503) 631-8 (1:105/278) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2N00001Date: 02/17/97 From: KAY NEWMAN Time: 05:59pm \/To: ROBERT MCKAY (Read 0 times) Subj: Happy Valentine Day On (16 Feb 97) Robert McKay wrote to Kay Newman... RM> KN>Happy Valentine's Day to all my nice and dear friends here. Don't RM> KN>eat to much chocolate. Now for those of you who haven't got your RM> KN>sweetheart a card, flowers, or candy. Take your sweetheart out to RM> KN>dinner. RM> I went to Walmart last night to get her some candy to greet her with RM> when she got off work. The close at 8 PM - when the farmers are still RM> up. RM> So I got it for her today. At about $2 less. Bet she didn't mind at all. RM> --- RM> QMPro 1.53 2146th Comm Group, Osan AB, Korea RM> * Origin: MoonDog BBS RIME NetHub Brooklyn,NY (1:278/15) ... Kay Newman -- Rochester, NY -- kwnewman@rochgte.fidonet.org --- PPoint 2.02 * Origin: Kay's Place Rochester, NY (1:2613/333.11) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2N00002Date: 02/17/97 From: LORRAINE PHILLIPS Time: 03:28pm \/To: SONDRA BALL (Read 0 times) Subj: HISTORICAL RESEARCH Hi Sondra... -> LP>'Primitive' warfare is more ritualized and kills far fewer people. -> SB> It depends on who the "primitive* peoples are. The *primitive* -> Europeans, in the anciet Greek city staes, and in the Middle East, -> were known to have totally eliminated defeated villages, killing -> every man, woman, and child; and burning the villages. The ancient Greek method of fighting was very destructive, as you say. My source (John Keegan, A History of Warfare) doesn't categorize ancient Greek warfare as primitive. He suggests that the Greeks' phalanx method of fighting may be part of the origin of our own murderous form of war: 'It was they [the ancient Greeks] who, in the fifth century BC, cut loose from the constraints of the primitive style, with its respect above all for ritual in war, and adopted the practice of the face-to-face battle to the death. This departure, confined initially to warfare among the Greeks themselves, was deeply shocking to those outside the Greek world who were first exposed to it.' 'The ethic of the battle to the death on foot...then made its way from the Greek to the Roman world...The combination of the face-to-face style - in which the ethic of personal honour was embedded - with that ideological dimension then only awaited the addition of the technological element to produce the final Western manner of warmaking.' I'm not familiar with your other examples, but it would seem that if warfare is highly murderous, then by Keegan's definition it's not primitive. Also, primitive warfare turned into something much worse many centuries ago in Western culture. Other cultures (eg, Islam) show much more restraint in war than does Western culture. Keegan's examples of primitive warmakers are the Aztecs, the Maoris, the Maring of New Guinea, and the Yanomamo of South America. He thinks we can learn from them and from Oriental ideas of war. Otherwise we'll be blowing ourselves off the planet. Keegan has an excellent observation about nuclear war: 'no military thinker has explained how nuclear warfare might be a continuation of politics.' :( --- PCBoard 15.2 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)247-7900 (1:134/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2N00003Date: 02/17/97 From: LARRY KWIATKOWSKI Time: 09:33am \/To: MONIKA KOETHNIG (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: indian summer >JK>> In Germany this period is called 'old women summer' >(Altweibersommer) - I Thanks for a fascinating explanation of altweibersommer, Monika. Would you say that all Germans know this term? I especially liked your detail on how the term might have come into use. --- SLMAIL v4.5 (#0238) * Origin: * `Onipa`a BBS (808) 947-9421 in Honolulu, Hawaii * (1:345/42) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2T00000Date: 02/21/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 06:36am \/To: JIM CASTO (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: what are we? part 1 JC> The bottom line.... Laws are put into place by people that have been select > by the majority of the community to represent them. It doesn't matter if we > are talking about the county, state or federal government. Anyone that choo > to violate a law (good, bad or indifferent) is engaging in an unlawful ct > against the _rest_ of the community. That's true in the U.S. where we operate by representative government. And all the people engaged in this discussion at the current time *are* in the U.S. JC> That's why there are laws that say everyone that want's to drive in MY > community MUST have a driver's license and a licensed automobile. Because i > is MY community. If you don't want to have a license, the solution is ERY > simple. Don't drive in MY community. Ancient societies used to exile people > for not obeying the "laws" of the "community". Nowadays, we just pay axes > to hire people (from our community) to enforce the laws our elected > representatives make. Grin! I'm glad you're here, Jim. It's good to have someone who can explain my side so succintly (and probably not even misspell succinctly while he's at it). I definitely want driver's licences in my community. And I want to be able to revoke them, too. Hey, not only did I have a car totaled by a hit and run. I had a nephew killed by a drunk driver. The kid was skateboarding beside the road, and the driver went off the road and hit and killed him. I really don't want that guy driving around in the future, hitting and killing other little kids. Many laws have really good reasons behind their existence. JC> SB> obeyed. But if you are going to disobey a law, because you consider > SB> the law to be wrong, you need to accept the fact that you are > SB> committing a criminal act, and be willing and ready to pay the price of > SB> that criminal act. JC> Again, that is a criminal act against the "community", NOT the vernment. Grin! True! JC> SB> As for those camps, rumor has it they are already in place. JC> What camps? Where? In the west? West of where? Jim, those camps that exist already are also always west of wherever the person who tells me about it lives at. Around here, some folks swear they're in western Pennsylvania. I correspond with someone in Western Pennsylvania who swears they're out in Indiana somewhere. The only reason *you* don't know about them is because the only place west of you is the Pacific Ocean. (G) Maybe the camps they're going to send you to are in Japan somewhere. (g) Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a What do you mean my birth certificate expired? --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 212 INDIAN AFFAIRS Ref: E2T00001Date: 02/21/97 From: SONDRA BALL Time: 06:36am \/To: JIM CASTO (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: what are we? part 2 JC> SB> I do believe that a people are entitled to their culture. I think > SB> there are very few American Indians who would disagree with you on this > SB> issue. JC> Or Italians, or Poles, or Swedes, or Japanese... True! Having an Italian husband, I can assure you that Italian culture is *very* important to some Italians. Sondra -*- SLMR 2.1a We're here because we're here because we're here because --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: the fifth age - milford ct - 203-876-1473 (1:141/355.0)