--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400016 Date: 11/04/97 From: ELVIS HARGROVE Time: 01:02am \/To: MARY HICKS (Read 1 times) Subj: FOR YOUR INFO... -> Gunny sacks, I know about. Thanks for the info. Ever heard 'em called "Croker-sacks" or maybe "Tow-sacks"? ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500000 Date: 11/04/97 From: SUE MATTHEWS Time: 02:26pm \/To: MARY HICKS (Read 1 times) Subj: FOR YOUR INFO... > Elvis... > > -> Ever heard 'em called "Croker-sacks" or maybe "Tow-sacks"? > > I've heard of "tow-sacks", but not the other. Some folks call them "Poke sacks" in the south ;D --- InterMail 2.29k * Origin: Com-Dat BBS - Hillsboro, Oregon (1:105/330) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500001 Date: 11/04/97 From: SUE MATTHEWS Time: 02:28pm \/To: ALAN RACKMILL (Read 1 times) Subj: I'm Sad... > I just discovered that New Jersey has 62 rescue groups for > specific breeds, including the MinPin. > There are also several "All Breed" rescue groups. Over the last few yeaars I have developed a database of over 1800 rescue groups nation wide for all breeds, mixed breeds, purebreeds, and even a few for cats and wild critters. If you're looking for a rescue group for a particular breed, you're welcome to send me EMAIL at imchattin@aol.com and I can respond with the data. Cheers, Sue --- InterMail 2.29k * Origin: Com-Dat BBS - Hillsboro, Oregon (1:105/330) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500002 Date: 11/04/97 From: ALAN RACKMILL Time: 07:15am \/To: ROBBY DITTMANN (Read 1 times) Subj: I'm Sad... Robby Dittmann wrote in a message to Shoshona Bieman: SB> With a tear in my eye... RD> Don't be sad. You have done as much as you can. RD> Unfortunately we cannot rescue every dog ourselves. So be RD> glad that you have gotten him in touch with the rescue RD> folks, before he got in touch with a car's bumper! RD> BTW, could send me some more info on MinPin Rescue? I RD> didn't know we had our own rescue group! I just discovered that New Jersey has 62 rescue groups for specific breeds, including the MinPin. There are also several "All Breed" rescue groups. Alan Team OS/2, Fidonet 1:107/101, ibmNET 40:4371/101, OS2NET 80:135/15 internet: alanrackmill@mindspring.com --- timEd/2 1.01 * Origin: The Maven's Roost * MAX/2 * WARP * v.34 1-908-821-4533 1:107/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500003 Date: 11/04/97 From: MARY HICKS Time: 10:07am \/To: ELVIS HARGROVE (Read 1 times) Subj: FOR YOUR INFO... Elvis... -> Ever heard 'em called "Croker-sacks" or maybe "Tow-sacks"? I've heard of "tow-sacks", but not the other. Mary --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: | The Commonwealth -+- Austin, TX -+- www.reelmusic.co (1:382/812) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500004 Date: 11/04/97 From: CLIFF HETHERINGTON Time: 06:23am \/To: AVRAMA GINGOLD (Read 1 times) Subj: Breeding Animals. Quoted From: Avrama Gingold To: Cliff Hetherington Date: 01-Nov-97 Hello Avrama, CH>> attitude of many humans isnt. AG> The point is that far too many people, looking at all breeds, AG> expect some kind of generic hyper-friendly dog. Until they get their sticky little paws nipped.. and whinge about it.. AG> Different breeds have differ-ent temperaments. I wonder how many AG> people have bought a Border Collie as a result of "BABE" (expecting Arrgggghh...:-(((((( Why didnt they buy a pig?, thats plain daft:-((( AG> serious working dogs who need a job to do. Yeah, and they need the excercise to stay fit.. AG> I am continually being annoyed by people who do NOT wait for me to AG> tell Shomer "say hello," before they rush to grab him. Well just recently, or rather the past year or so I've had better reactions over here, people have or at least adults have started asking if Sam is 'ok' before trying to pet him... Kids are another story though. AG> From a little child that is acceptable, even desired (by SHomer), AG> behavior, but adults need to be vetted by the pack leader before he Sam doesnt mind kids either, but wont take too much pulling and tugging of body parts before he uses his muzzle to push them away:-)) But he wouldnt think of nipping. AG> of the Lassie syndrome: people grab it having been infected by the AG> movies and the television shows. I guess people cant help being daft:-( Sheesh we have even had cases of the mentally disturbed trying and in some cases succeeding in getting into wild animal enclosures... End result is them in hospital, it doesnt pay to try playing with a tiger.. AG> strange dog and pet it, no matter how much of a pet he may be. Not unless you wish to risk getting bitten..humans are a wee bit soft in the head when it comes to animals methinks:-) CH>> originally bred for.. AG> Here in the States, many farmers out west are using livestock AG> livestock guardian dogs as just that, one of the best forms of AG> predator control (and ecologically sound at the same time). Thats great, much as I like my dogs as pets, if I had the money and thus the space and facilities I cant think of anything better than to put the dogs in an environment much like one they were originally bred for. AG> They are not herders or drovers; their function is to protect the AG> flock. Definately:-))) AG> decided the family is the flock. MY 1st ever PMD was exactly like that, and even with a couple of cats as members of the family, he wouldnt allow any harm to come to anyone..even visitors.. One lady visited my wife, with a baby at the 'crawl all over' stage.. the kid crawled into the kitchen, where food was being cooked.. Cuddles follwoed the baby, picked it up by its nappy and returned to the lounge nad put the kid on its mothers lap.. she nearly had kittens:-))) But she didnt let the baby crawl out of sight again. AG> something about the breed history to anticipate and understand the AG> present. And any individual ideosyncracies of the dog:-) I've found most dogs are also idividuals:-) AG> (As an aside, the Kuvaz and the Komondor are more popular as LGDs Dont know anything about those two, never even heard of the latter.. AG> out west than Pyrs, but I know of at least one person whose goats AG> are guarded by a Pyr.) Good, bet they stay safe from predators and stray humans.. I'm glad the practice of usinge a dog for what it was bred for isnt dying out. Cheers, Cliff --- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at Support FREE2000 & Operation FidoNet * Origin: A pointed connection @ TRAK-ONE!, England. (2:254/60.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500005 Date: 11/04/97 From: CLIFF HETHERINGTON Time: 06:42am \/To: MARY HICKS (Read 1 times) Subj: BREED STANDARDS..BIG FOOT Quoted From: MARY HICKS To: CLIFF HETHERINGTON Date: 02-Nov-97 Hello MARY, CH> to a buyer? MH> is...otherwise, I can't answer questions. OK by me:-))) MH> with pregnant animals. Well lets try to make this a bit plainer:-) At what age is it considered 'proper' to give a pup to a prospective buyer by the dog faternity, ie those who work with and deal with dos on a regular basis? The general populace can 'sometimes' pick up on a recognised 'time' and of course some with just ignore anything that doesnt fit in with their personal plans:-( MH> I've ever read about, state that 8 to 9 weeks or older, is the MH> ideal time to separate pups from their mom. close enuff to over here, where its usually about 10 weeks or so. MH> accelerates during the 6 to 9 week age. Yes, and of course in the UK most vets will not consider that a pets imunisation series is complete and the animal ready for socialisation until 12 weeks or so. MH> spay/neuter a dog as young as 5 weeks. I asked my vet about that MH> and while he said that it can be done safely, it is nothing he MH> would recommend. I guess there are severe time and financial constraints on the shelters. MH> heat, around 6 months old. I think thats what most vets advise isnt it? CH> come across one in other than the human species myself. MH> Ever hear of a "rogue" elephant? Having lived in africa for a considerable period of time, yup I've 'heard' of them, heard loads of tall stories about them etc etc, but dispite living close to and in fact on game reserves where elephants were present, I've never actually 'seen' one:-) As I said... 'myself':-))) MH> had been gene mapped, it MH> Please note that I said "generally speaking". ok ok:-)))) CH> not length -> of coat, type of ear etc. MH> re-phrase... :-))) MH> a mixed-breed dog, who has one Lab parent, I feel there is the MH> likelihood that these traits will emerge. Yup, and look for them I guess from what you have said, but I dont think you would reject the animal outright just because it didnt display obvious Lab traits:-)) MH> pretty expensive. Very expensive I guess:-((( MH> -> Yup same here, and it costs a bomb and is damm difficult to MH> budget -> for. MH> Tell me about it! MH> means to do extensive checking. Also, you run into "invasion of MH> privacy" type things. Well in the UK most folks who just happen to have a pup to rehouse, and arnet of the 'farming' variety, tend to do so locally, amongst freinds and niebours, and they know pretty much what those folsk are like.. It would be unusual for a pup to be rehouse many miles away or in a different country. MH> you -> sell a dog to, check their status, housing and visit them MH> at home. MH> Wouldn't work for the private individual... Depends on where its new home is doesnt it? MH> answers -> arent right, dont sell.. MH> looking for a home for the pup...no money involved. Well, a person who isnt look for money isnt laikely to be rehouseing the pup at long range are they? MH> but -> not breeders, and thats were it starts out. MH> to handle things if the professional breeder lives in one state MH> and the buyer in another. No home visits there. I guess its the distance constraint as much as anything else in the USA, but in the UK one can find a breeder from the north of england either visiting to see where and how you live or asking someone from the local dog club to pop in... Some, but not all breeders WILL go to great lengths to ensure a dog goes to a good home. MH> than 150 -> lines. MH> limitations are due either to the BBS software he uses for MH> FidoNet, or in the FidoNet conferences themselves. I'd say offhand the BBS software or simply the individual editor, most fidonet mailers dont like messages bigger than 64K, which is pretty big. MH> can write...:-( Oh, well... Cheers, Cliff --- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at Support FREE2000 & Operation FidoNet * Origin: A pointed connection @ TRAK-ONE!, England. (2:254/60.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500006 Date: 11/04/97 From: CLIFF HETHERINGTON Time: 07:08am \/To: MARY HICKS (Read 1 times) Subj: BREED STANDARDS..BIG FOOT Quoted From: MARY HICKS To: CLIFF HETHERINGTON Date: 25-Oct-97 Hello MARY, On 25-Oct-97, MARY HICKS: CLIFF HETHERINGTON MH> "strangers"; refuse to run the risk of unwanted litters. Thats your right. MH> Why? Because hundreds of thousands unwanted animals are MH> euthanized every year. Let's just say *killed* every year, MH> because no homes can be found for them. So does that mean they a particular practice has to be set in stone? What about when there are not to many animals that are unwanted and being put to death? Will it still be the practice to neuter any and all as a matter of routine? MH> My pets are happy, well cared for and will most likely have a MH> healthier life span as a result of being spayed and neutered. Thats possible, amy even be probably, but its hardly a natural state of affairs is it? We the human population are the ones who tamed the beast in the 1st place, and we should not now end up with the situation as it is:-( And I simply do not believe there is 'one path' to any end.. A number of people diagree with me, that is their right, but I've yet to be convinced that neutering any animal 'regardless of circumstances' is correct. while it may well be both correct and right in a particular set of circumstances its not IMO for 'every' circumstance.. Cheers, Cliff --- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at Support FREE2000 & Operation FidoNet * Origin: The Dragons Lair off TRAK-ONE........ (2:254/60.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500007 Date: 11/04/97 From: CLIFF HETHERINGTON Time: 07:16am \/To: JUDITH BANDSMA (Read 1 times) Subj: BREEDING ANIMALS. Quoted From: Judith Bandsma To: Cliff Hetherington Date: 01-Nov-97 Hello Judith, On 01-Nov-97, Judith Bandsma: Cliff Hetherington CH>> I dont think there will be many people outside the basque regions ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CH>> of the pyrenees using their PMD/GP's in the occupation they were CH>> originally bred for.. JB> Wrong as you can be on that one. PMD's, Kuvaz, Puli, Anatolians, Was I? please note I said I dindnt 'think' that there would be 'many' I dont intend to get into some argument as to what constitutes 'many' ist not worth it.. I wasnt aware of the practice in the USA, thank you for letting me know about it as did another poster... JB> etc ARE used here in the US as flock guardians. And I'm glad they are, as intended for those breeds, but is that universal across the USA? Its good to hear about even its its not universal practice, because AFAIK its not so in the UK, which is a pity in many respects.. JB> you...even if you leave it in the car. The Anatolians look on even JB> visitors as intruders and treat them as such. Yup because thats what they are, but if the pack leader tolerates them so shoud the pack:-)) Cheers, Cliff/2 --- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at Support FREE2000 & Operation FidoNet * Origin: The Dragons Lair off TRAK-ONE........ (2:254/60.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF500008 Date: 11/02/97 From: SHOSHONA BIEMAN Time: 05:27pm \/To: JUDITH BANDSMA (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: GENETIC PROBLEMS JB> Cliff is just going to hate this . (Sorry about that but, JB> more and more, his rhetoric is sounding like that espoused by JB> PETA...and you know how I feel about THAT group.) Yup... Exactly the same as I do... A pox upon PETA! JB> Not long ago, a Bouvier breeder on the mailing list came JB> forward to say that she had found that one of her foundation JB> dogs...a champion with alphabets on both ends of his name and JB> commanding high stud fees...was found to have SAS. (5 vets had JB> missed it. It was found on an echocardiogram exam) JB> She immediately had him neutered, despite the fact that this JB> does not pass to every one of the offspring, and advised those JB> who had bought puppies from her and used him for stud. JB> THAT's what a responsible breeder does. She did the right thing and is to be commended for doing so! So much for keeping the ol' germ plasm alive via Cliff's concept of "genetic material"... Hopefully, he will eventually understand the cold hard facts about breeding and neutering and responsibility... Shoshona Bieman, 1:103/505 |\_/| Moderator: THERAPY_SERVICE_DOG /@ @\ Gabi, the MinPin Companion Dog \_____\(T)/ "A righteous man has regard for the ( __ (_ life of his beast" [Proverbs 12:10] (___)`-(___) --- Aeolus v1.2.1 (#49820837) * Origin: Shofar __ 714-838-3837 __ The PAWS that Refreshes! (1:103/505)