--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400006 Date: 11/03/97 From: SUE MATTHEWS Time: 10:49am \/To: DEB SMITH (Read 1 times) Subj: Breeding Animals. > Personally, I think, and this is JUST MY opnion.. most folks > who want a pure breed are snobs. I would personally take issue with that. I've had dogs almost all my life and I prefer purebred dogs because knowing the characteristics of a breed gives me an opportunity to plan ahead and make sure this dog will fit into my life rather than taking a chance on an unknown. That said... most of the dogs who have come into my life have been second hand... someone else's cast offs. > I've had a couple purebreeds, in my time.. however I happen to > like my so called MUTT. (chow/german shepard) Great... glad to hear it, but tht's no reason for you to run down purebreds or the people who enjoy them. > *IF* someone is RESPSONSABLE, and wants to breed dogs, that is > fine. but > *responsable* is the key word. I had my sheltie fixed. I got I guess the problem is that people have very different ideas about what"responsible breeding" is. Perhaps you can tell me what you consider responsible? > liked the dog. I have her papers, and her petigree, etc. and > from what I > understand of the whole racket she came from a very strong line, > had I wanted to breed dogs. What is a "very strong line?" > My Idea of having a pet was and still is, just that. a PET. I My dogs are pets as well first and foremost, but we do enjoy showing them from time to time, carting and herding with them, and they serve as protection for the house and vehicles as well. Cheers, Sue --- InterMail 2.29k * Origin: Com-Dat BBS - Hillsboro, Oregon (1:105/330) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400007 Date: 11/03/97 From: SUE MATTHEWS Time: 10:56am \/To: MARY GALATI (Read 1 times) Subj: BREEDING > MG> I like Bouvs. They remind me of great big cuddly teddy bears. My > MG> brother owned one. Are they all so well tempered? Judith addd: > If they are properly socialized, yes. As with any breed, > however, you can > get individuals who are either dog or human aggressive...or > both. We just don't see quite as much of it. Socialization is critical, but I also believe that genetics play a role in temperment in Bouviers. I'm aware of lines where sharpness seems to prevail all too often. This is not a trait I would want in my puppies. A good Bouvier should be rock solid in temperment. An aloof nature is fine, but the dog should not be sharp when it's not called for. I had the pleasure of meeting Harras at the specialty a few weeks ago. He's 9 years old, IPO III titled, and the sweetest love puppy in the world (after my Sammy of course). A good dog, even a protective one, should not be mean. Cheers, Sue --- InterMail 2.29k * Origin: Com-Dat BBS - Hillsboro, Oregon (1:105/330) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400008 Date: 11/01/97 From: JUDITH BANDSMA Time: 03:46pm \/To: CLIFF HETHERINGTON (Read 1 times) Subj: BREEDING ANIMALS. -=> Did Cliff Hetherington really say that to Avrama Gingold? <=- CH> I dont think there will be many people outside the basque regions of CH> the pyrenees using their PMD/GP's in the occupation they were CH> originally bred for.. Wrong as you can be on that one. PMD's, Kuvaz, Puli, Anatolians, etc ARE used here in the US as flock guardians. More so in the western states than on the east coast but here in SC, about 1/2 hour from where I live is a goat dairy that uses Anatolians. If you come for milk, you may not bring your own dog with you...even if you leave it in the car. The Anatolians look on even visitors as intruders and treat them as such. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400009 Date: 11/01/97 From: JUDITH BANDSMA Time: 03:54pm \/To: MARY HICKS (Read 1 times) Subj: FOR YOUR INFO... -=> Did Mary Hicks really say that to Cliff Hetherington? <=- -> at the roadside.. or dropped in some river in a hessian sack:-(( MH> Don't know the term or reference...of course, do know about sacks with MH> animals being tossed...:-(( We'd call it a gunny sack here. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400010 Date: 11/01/97 From: JUDITH BANDSMA Time: 03:55pm \/To: SEANETTE BLAYLOCK (Read 1 times) Subj: TRY AGAIN -=> Did Seanette Blaylock really say that to Judith Bandsma? <=- SB> Cats are good escape artists, which is a good argument in favor of SB> spay/neuter even for inside cats (they're also MUCH easier to live SB> with). And DON'T get me going on declawing. Yeah, my vet jokes that we bought her hydraulic scale/lift table from the numbers of cats we've had fixed. One year for christmas we got 8 males done. (Couple of strays/ferals in that bunch that never came inside, just got fixed and released) SB> ... You puppies go to sleep. I need the rest. I've only got one in the house right now and I'm exhausted. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400011 Date: 11/03/97 From: AVRAMA GINGOLD Time: 12:40am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Legislative Update2-11/97 BREEDING RESTRICTION LEGISLATION LOS ANGELES: a Proposal was turned in to the Animal Regulation Commission on 10/14/97 for commission staff to review it for comments, suggestions, and legal language. The working title is PROVIDE, SPAY, or PAY. A task force (that shockingly enough included members of dog clubs) provided input for the proposal. The new license fee structure would be $10/altered dogs, $35 for intact dogs whose owners participate in activities that promote and indicate responsible dog ownership. These activities are defined as participation in conformation showing, performance, field or working events, therapy, professional performing animals, service dogs, law enforcement and guard dogs. [In theory, the activities are not limited to the above. Also note that service dogs are typically spayed or castrated, but they are free of the onus. Also note well that a dog who is BEING trained is not yet participating in performance events, there is no way to define the first show prospect dog of a first-time exhibitor--in many lines of many breeds it is practical to wait until the dog is fully mature before competing in order to be truly competitive--or the retired show dog. What is even more problematic is many of these activities require a good deal of disposable income, so the person who can afford to buy a good dog and afford to give it proper medical, training, and nutritional care but CANNOT afford, in addition, the expenses of showing or competing is perforce considered to have to pay the fee for an intact dog who is not following those guidelines.] The fee for an intact dog if one does not participate in a PROGRAM to promote or indicate responsible animal ownership is $500. [I wonder if earning the CGC would mean anything.] The Animal Council, one of the California federations that represents the interests of purebred owners, has indicated its opposition to the proposal. The California Federation of Dog Clubs, a statewide group that represents the interest of purebred dog CLUBS, will be putting forth its position statement on the legislation within the next month. OKLAHOMA: TULSA, OK: a animal control ordinace was passed over the summer, and was to go into effect Saturday, Nov. 1st. Dogs and cats over 6 months of age must be spayed or castrated. There is a $25 initial permit fee for breeders or fanciers, which exempts them from the sterilization requirement. The permit can be renewed yearly for $10. The ordinance also limits the number of dogs and cats per household to 5; the permit fee also exempts holders from the limit. OTHER LEGISLATION: WORCESTER, MASSACHUSETTS: the city has apparently already amended the new dog control law to allow dogs who are temporarily in the city for exhibition or entertainment purposes to be in the downtown area. The law had prevented anyone who did not live within the city from bringing in a dog. The law still prohibits dogs from parks, although the Mayor is interested in the possibility of dog runs. The Massachusetts Federation of Dog Clubs and Responsible Dog Owners is continuing to try and convince the city to revise the ordinance further. [Note: as the law is worded to date, people who themselves LIVE in the downtown area are unable to have dogs (unless the dog never leaves the house). FEDERAL NOTES: LETTERS NEEDED TO HOUSING BILL CONFEREES As mentioned last month, the House and the Senate both passwed federal housing reform legislation. Both versions included provisions assuring residents of public and publicly ASSISTED housing the right to keep appropriate household pets. There are differences between the House and Senate bills, including small differences in the two pet provisions. These will have to be resolved by a Conference Committee. House and Senate staffs have begun discussions to reconcile differences in the bills, but the conferees have not yet been named. Opposnents of the pet provisions are already working on the committee staffs and potential conferees, trying to persuade them to further limit the scope of the pets provisions of the two bills. An example is the idea of leaving pet policies to the discretion of the individual housing manager, rather than stipulating in the legislation that pets must be allowed. Housing managers ALREADY have the authority to allow pets, but practically none do so (or if they do, allow only cats and occasionally toy breeds). The only way to assure that residents of federally assisted housing can have appropriate pets is to enact language in the bills stating it specifically. [Do not forget that all leases have provisions calling for eviction of those who engage in activity that interferes with the fair use by other residents--e.g., someone who'd let his/her dog eliminate in the hallways, or bark incessantly. Thus other tenants are already protected against nuisance or dangerous dogs.] The conferees have not yet been named, we do know that the following Senators (Alfonse D'Amato, R/NY; Connie Mack, R/FL; and Paul Sarbanes, D-MD) and Representatives (JAmes Leach, R-IA; Rick LAzio, R-NY: and Joseph Kennedy, D/MA) will be key confreres. The Senators can be reached at United States Senate, the REpresentatives at U.S. House of Representatives, and for all Washington, DC 20515. Even though we do not know when the conference will take place, we do know that the legislators listed above, other potential conferees, and their staffs, already are discussing these issues informally among themselves. Therefore it is very important to contact them promptly. ======================================================================== IF you hear of any pending legislation, on local, state, or even federal levels, please let me know. Avrama & Shomer avrama@moondog.com ... nfx v2.7 [C0000] World's most beautiful dog: he looks at you with love. ... nfx v2.7 [C0000] ... nfx v2.7 [C0000] ... nfx v2.7 [C0000] --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10 * Origin: MoonDog BBS RIME NetHub Brooklyn,NY (1:278/230) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400012 Date: 11/03/97 From: MARY HICKS Time: 10:15pm \/To: ALAN RACKMILL (Read 1 times) Subj: BREED STANDARDS..BIG FOOT Hi Alan, -> That is the limitation of the BBS software your son is using. -> It imposes a 150 line limit on messages. Thanks for the information. Mary --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: | The Commonwealth -+- Austin, TX -+- www.reelmusic.co (1:382/812) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400013 Date: 11/03/97 From: ANNE PAGE Time: 02:40am \/To: CAROL DISHONGH (Read 1 times) Subj: Breeding animals. CD>>I also am a breeder, and I hope a very responsible one. I breed aand CD>>show Keeshonden, and have 2 8 week old boy puppies for sale. I carefully CD>>screen my puppy buyers and offer to take my puppies back if they do not CD>>fit in the family that bought them. I also have owned mutts and loved CD>>them dearly. I care about all dogs no matter what their bloodlines are. CD>>No, people who have purebred dogs are not snobs, we just like a CD>>particular breed. Carol Dishongh * SLMR 2.1a * Before dogs a vet was a military man who served in war. --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0075 * Origin: PSL Online Houston, TX 713-442-6704 @psl-online.com (1:106/6256) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400014 Date: 11/03/97 From: ANNE PAGE Time: 09:21am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Breeding animals. Carol Dishongh just posted a message to which I *must* respond. It started out: CD>>I also am a breeder, and I hope a very responsible one. She definitely is both, and her dogs are beautiful and healthy. CD>>I breed and show Keeshonden, ... And has done very well with them in the show rings. CD>>I carefully screen my puppy buyers and offer to take my CD>>puppies back if they do not fit in the family that bought them. And she will take back any dog she has bred at any age if the family who raised it from puppyhood find themselves unable to keep it. I remember us chatting at a fun match fifteen-something years ago about her having to leave early for home even though she had won Best of Breed with her puppy and wanted to show it in the Group because she was meeting a couple who were being job transferred some place where they couldn't take the dog she had bred some years earlier and sold to them as a puppy. They were giving this senior citizen dog back to her and she was going to keep it until they could eventually find a place to live where they could have a dog and drive back to Texas to get it or with her until it lived out its life. CD>>No, people who have purebred dogs are not snobs, we just like a CD>>particular breed. Right. I'm like Carol. I love all dogs of all breeds and mixes but for me it's been Beagles and Chihuahuas and my wonderful pet Doberman who I was privileged to have as a house companion for seven years. Anne Page * SLMR 2.1a * Before dogs a vet was a military man who served in war. --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0075 * Origin: PSL Online Houston, TX 713-442-6704 @psl-online.com (1:106/6256) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 121 DOGS Ref: EF400015 Date: 11/03/97 From: TIFFANY WILLIAMS Time: 08:58am \/To: ERICA PRICE (Read 1 times) Subj: Apbt's I own ONE APBT. He is about 2 1/2 months old. His parents are reg'd and EP>was supposed to get a call from the breeder when his papers came in but, I EP>haven't been called so, I will call him. He is WONDERFUL. He just had a EP>major operation done. He was run over by a car and broke a leg. It was EP>pinned together and, the day he came home, he was the same puppy that got hi EP>a week earlier. He greets new dogs with joy, new people with joy and new ca EP>with a play stance. He can never lick any one too much or squeak his squeak EP>bone too much. He is a VERY smart dog and learns very quickly. He is alway EP>getting his nose into trouble but, that is a puppy! I plan to do some EP>activities with him (agility maybe?) and join an APBT club to meet other EP>breeders. His breeder said he will be a big boy. His parents were a nice EP>size but, his paws are huge. He is black brindled with brown, has very nice EP>white paws and a white tip on his tail. He has a white chest and tummy nd EP>white spot on his nose. I live NE of Toronto so, if you live nearby, aybe EP>could get together someday to talk and see each others dogs! WRITE ACK!!! EP> Sincerly, Erica I now own 9 APBTs. Two of them are inside dogs which is an experience!! They both have to sleep in the bed with my husband & I and we only have a queen size bed. On cold nights they both want to sleep at the top of the bed on our pillows; and to make it worst they both snore!!! (But I wouldn't trade them for the world!) I am the secretary of the Lone Star State Pit Bull Club and this past weekend we put on a "FUN SHOW" and we had a great turn out!! My 3 yr old female took 1st in the 2 - 3 year old female class; my 2 yr old female took 3rd in the 2 - 3 year old female class, and my 4 1/2 yr old female took 3rd in the 3+ year old female class; so we were very excited!!! You said the the parents of your dog were reg. but you were having trouble getting the papers...you can do a single registration on your dog if you know the b-days & registration names on her parents. If you need help I have a computer program called COMPUPED that I can help you out with and we can get your dog reg. so you can show her (or weight pull her)! tEP>--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0150 EP> * Origin: Ability OnLine - Toronto Canada - 416 650-5411 (1:250/518) === * SLMR 2.1a * --- InterEcho 1.19 * Origin: The Oasis BBS: (817) 613-9002 (1:130/716)