--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: F5J00016 Date: 05/14/98 From: HARRY WIELDAAYER Time: 09:19pm \/To: MICHAEL TOWNSEND (Read 2 times) Subj: The TRUE Name of God Hi Michael Townsend, hope you are having a nice day 12-May-98 08:08:41, Michael Townsend wrote to Amos Johnson Subject: The TRUE Name of God MT> " At the NAME of JESUS every knee SHOULD bow...... MT> that every tongue SHOULD confess MT> that JESUS CHRIST is LORD [ Jehovah-JWHW ] MT> to the glory of God the Father." MT> - Letter to the Philippians 2:10-11 MT> So Amos, we totally agree that the Name of JESUS is the Name of God. Amen If I may say so. MT> Regards, MT> Michael MT> - Origin: (3:771/1560.25) .!. Forrest Gump: The truth hurts. But not as much as flossing. ___ T-TAG 1.14 [*Registered* as Pro --- Terminate 5.00/Pro For a long time since 1.41+ * Origin: My Point At Galaxy CBCS Hamilton -=>NZ<=- (3:774/500.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: F5J00017 Date: 05/14/98 From: SIMON KOYOUNIAN Time: 05:22pm \/To: JASEN BETTS (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: "LORD" -=> Quoting Jasen Betts to Amos Johnson <=- JB> Yes, communicating with one's father using the words "Dad" , "Daddy" , JB> "Father" etc is a mark of respect, Father is a "Title", using a name JB> instead here seems to deny the relationship. AJ> If he was to tell others what a wonderful, kind, generous father he AJ> had, and someone asked him who he was, how could he show honor to his AJ> father if he couldn't tell someone else what his father's name was? JB> This is valid for human fathers, but the wholw earth has the same JB> heavenly Father, so names are not so important here. Hi Jason:-) When we look back into the Bible we find peoples worshiping different gods do we not? As example Baal was worshipped, Dagon, Seth, Horeth,etc. If we notice people attributed names to their gods even though faulse. They may have addressed their god as Father also. Suppose an Isrealite approached one of these and said: "I believe in and worship the heavenly Father." The other pagan worshipper might think to himself: "Wow he must also worship my Father Baal" Do you think this could be a possibility? AJ> Names are very important to us. A persons name is generally the very AJ> first thing we learn about someone when meeting them for the first AJ> time. JB> Unfortunelty it's also the first thing we're likely to forget... JB> I think I'll, continue to follow the example given by The Savior. JB> Matt 6:9, 23:9, etc... I believe with all my heart Jason that Jesus has left us a model to follow his footsteps closely. - 1Peter 2:21 And for myself as a Christian, I alos believe it proper to use the name of my heavenly Father Jehovah. This is not done in a vain or worthless way of attitude but one of deep reverential fear and respect. Jesus also proclaimed the name of his heavenly Father Jehovah God. On the night of his death he plainly said in a prayer to his Father: "I have *manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word" - John 17:6 I leave this note to you in the peace :-) SiMoN ... "He that has the Son has life;..." - 1 John 5:12 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2--- * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: The Country Owl BBS *519-693-7152* (1:2401/504) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: F5J00018 Date: 05/14/98 From: SIMON KOYOUNIAN Time: 07:50pm \/To: JIM STAAL (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: 'born again' ? [2/3] -=> Quoting Jim Staal to Shane Farrell <=- JS> On (06 May 98) Shane Farrell wrote to Amos Johnson... SF> Ahh interesting but you must remember that being saved is by Grace SF> which is the Gift of God and I think it says somewhere "not of works SF> lest any man should boast" Sorry I can't remember or find the exact SF> referrence. JS> Ephesians 2:8-9, Shane. Memorize it, as it is a very important JS> scripture. :-) SF> But that alone makes me think that Following the word of SF> the Lord Jesus Christ is not a work but a simple act of faith. JS> It is a work, as in 'faith without works is dead', but it does JS> nothing to enhance/achieve salvation. It is an act of gratitude for JS> same. Yes, our "works" do not gain or buy us the right to everlasting life. Yet there are certain things a Christian *must* do in order to demonstrate appreciation for the love of God through his Son Christ sus. "For if you *publicly declare* that `word in your own mouth,' that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness but *with the mouth* one makes public declaration for salvation." - Romans 10:9,10 A part of our works motivated by our faith is that of publicly preaching about the Kingdom of God. SiMoN :-) ... "Your word is a lamp to my foot. And a light to my roadway" Ps.119:105 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: The Country Owl BBS *519-693-7152* (1:2401/504) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: F5J00019 Date: 05/14/98 From: SIMON KOYOUNIAN Time: 09:01pm \/To: JIM STAAL (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: 2 People Who Never Di -=> Quoting Jim Staal to Shane Farrell <=- JS> On (02 May 98) Shane Farrell wrote to Jim Staal... SF> As you can see according to this Moses did indeed die. But thank you SF> for the chance of extra study it always gives my heart a lift when SF> reading and studying his word. JS> Yes, I also believed Moses did indeed die. (as the devil fought with JS> the archangel, Michael over the body of Moses). And when he did die was he brought to life as a spirit? I believe the Bible is clear about the matter. Jesus himself said: "Moreover, *no man* has ever ascended into heaven but he that has descended from heaven the Son of man." (John 3:13) So, Jesus says as a witness that *no man* had been resurrected into spirit to heaven. That would include faithful servants of God as Moses, Abraham, Noah, Elijiah, and even Enoch. JS> The reason I brought JS> it up was that, according to your logic, the 2 witnesses had to be JS> Enoch and Elijah, because 'it is appointed onto man, once to die', and JS> as they were 'taken', it had to be them. However, using the same JS> logic, as Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the Mount of JS> Transfiguration, questions appeared in my mind about your theory and I JS> wanted you to see it for yourself. Even thought Elijah didn't die, and JS> Moses did, there they were, both together. Where does it tell us about Elijiah's ascention? 2Kings 2 tells about when Elijiah ascended in the chariot. The time of this miracle was after the death of Ahab, then Ahaziah and Jehoram was now begining his rule. 2Kings 1:17. "...Elijiah went ascending in the windstorm to heavens" - 2Kings 2:11 Had he gone up into the very prescence of God in heaven never dying? Well Jim, asmay be aware, Elijiah did not go into heaven indicated by the fact that King Jehoram later recieves a letter from (your's truly) - Elijiah showing God's condemnation of his actions. By this we see Elijiah was taken up to a new assignment alive and active as a prophet of God to the King of Judah. "Eventually there came a writing to him from Elijiah the prophet, saying: ..." - 2Chronicles 21:12-15 (Eight years after begininning his rule) Clearly Jehovah used his own means of transportation to the new assignment. JS> I personally believe that JS> although they didn't die as we will (Elijah and Enoch), some how they JS> had to pass from life into spiritual existance. As for our friend Enoch could the scripture not mean God ended the life of his faithful servant sparing him a possible horrible death at the hand of his enemies when it says: "And Enoch kept walking with the true God. Then *he was no more*, for God took him." - Genesis 5:24? We know Enoch *was not* taken into the prescence of God simply because Jesus said the above at John 3:13. To say otherwise would be indicating our Lord Jesus told a lie. A lie he would not and did not promote. JS> Otherwise, where have JS> they been hanging out all these millenia, as the only resurrected body JS> currently in heaven, is Jesus'. They would have been in their graves Jim. Dead unconscious of nothing at all. As a deep sleep. However, because Jehovah God loves all his servants and has the power to resurrect any he wishes they are all spoken of as being alive to him. Remember the hope of everlasting life in heaven was only opened up after the death of Christ Jesus. Since, this hope is solidly based on his prescious shed blood. - Psalms 88:10;115:17;Ec 9:4-6;Mt 22:31-33;Mr 20:34-40;Jo 5:28 {just a few of many :-)} SF> Another thing I should note I believe SF> the word even if man has not seen the SF> evidence. JS> Amen. Ditto :-) SiMoN ... "He that has the Son has life;..." - 1 John 5:12 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: The Country Owl BBS *519-693-7152* (1:2401/504) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: F5J00020 Date: 05/14/98 From: SIMON KOYOUNIAN Time: 09:32pm \/To: LANGSTON GOLDFINCH (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Evil from God? -=> Quoting Langston Goldfinch to Jim Staal <=- LG> Hello Jim. LG> 11 May 98 10:48, Jim Staal wrote to Michael Townsend: JS> Interesting that Malachi was chosen here, as it is plain just two JS> chapters later that: (Mal 3:6 NIV) "I the LORD do not change..." LG> What do we do with those many verses that do have God changing in some LG> way, for example: LG> Jonah 3:10 (KJV) And God saw their works, that they turned from LG> their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he LG> would do unto them; and he did it not. LG> Here, in probably a "bad" translation, we have God intending initially LG> to do evil! Hi Jim Evil - That which results in pain, sorrow, or distress. In order to convey the correct thought in English, the very comprehensive Hebrew word ra' is variously translated as "bad", "gloomy", "ugly", "evil", "calamitous", "malignant", "ungenerous", and "envious", depending upon the context.(Ge 2:9;40:7;41:3; Ex 33:4; De 6:22;28:35; Pr 23:6;28:22) As I understand it the Hebrew word qalal' means to "call down evil" With this reasoning we see that God brought evil or calamity to Adam after his sin. Hence in the scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7 - compare KJ) His enforcing the penalty for sin, namely death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind. All these evils at God's hands are not wrongs however. Rather upon examination we find the rightful administration of justice aginst wrongdoers was involved.(Flood of Noah's day; 10 plagues visited upon Egypt as examples) Jim you need to remember that at times Jehovah God, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the repentence on the part of those concerned. (Jona 3:10) As for your comment JS> Interesting that Malachi was chosen here, as it is plain just JS> chapters later that: (Mal 3:6 NIV) "I the LORD do not change..." I believe this to be true. I understand from my personal Bible study to mean that God's principles and righteous standards *will not* and *do not* change. Even though humans may wish to alter their thoughts on matters regarding morality God's stand on issues are stable - solid. His Love, Mercy, Justice, Power, Wisdom, etc. are perfectly balanced and do not deviate. Hope this has been some upbuilding exchange to you it has been for myself as I think upon such matters.:-) Peace to you Jim SiMoN LG> Regards LG> Langston LG> -!- LG> ! Origin: NOPC (504)-486-7249 N.O. LA. USA (1:396/17) ... `GOD CANNOT LIE' - Titus1:2 ___ Blue Wav--- * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: The Country Owl BBS *519-693-7152* (1:2401/504) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: F5J00021 Date: 05/14/98 From: SIMON KOYOUNIAN Time: 09:46pm \/To: AUDREY LESCHINSKI (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: faith... -=> Quoting Audrey Leschinski to Relatif Tuinn <=- AL> Audrey explained to Relatif, regarding faith..., on 05-08-98 16:07: AL> No, one does not HAVE to BE a believer to post here, but we'd LIKE you AL> to be! :) RT> All you need is evidence. :) AL> Then where'd be the faith? :)) "Is but faith of(things) being hoped for sub-standing, of things reproof not (things) being looked at; in this[faith] for were borne witness to the older men." - Hebrews 11:1,2 (Transliteration of Greek Text) IOW " Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not yet beheld. For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them." Evidence is required from the Holy Bible so as not to blindly going along. YOU need to make the truth your ouwn by way of proving what you believe to yourself and others. By this I do not mean anything goes - it *must be in harmony with the Word of Almighty God*. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: The Country Owl BBS *519-693-7152* (1:2401/504) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: F5J00022 Date: 05/14/98 From: SIMON KOYOUNIAN Time: 10:07pm \/To: JASEN BETTS (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: God's Choices vs man' -=> Quoting Jasen Betts to Michael Townsend <=- RT>>> If Adam had not eaten of the tree would he have had children? SF>> Unknown.. MT> Wrong. The obvious answer is Yes, Adam would have had children. JB> the "obvoius answer" is wrong. JB> prove it, the first mention of children happens AFTER the event, at JB> the time a whole slew of other changes were also outlined. Did not God bless Adam and Eve after creating them and putting them in the paradise garden of Eden? What commission or work were they given from God? "Further, God blessed them and God said to them: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth." - Ge 1:28 1. Be fruitful enjoying life 2. become many by procreation - have babies filling the earth 3. have say over animal life in loving manner As the family would grow it stands to reason the garden of Eden also would expand with the human family. Right? JB> if Adam (and eve) had not eaten the fruit but had had children the JB> earth would be really crouded by now Jason, who gave Adam and Eve the ability to procreate through children? JB> (if a couple had only 1 child every 10 years starting at age 20 the JB> population of the world would now be around. 887 000 000 000 000 000 JB> 000 000 (and another hundered 0s following that) people on the earth, JB> thats's more than the number of _atoms_ in the observed universe... Does not the creator also have ability to take away the process of childbirth? If he created humans he would also know how to stop the process yes? And if his command was to "fill the earth" and not to "overfil or crowd the earth" would he not use such ability as he saw fit? JB> I think GOD waited for the introduction of death before introducing JB> birth for reasons which should now be obvious Unfortunately, Adam and Eve sinned before they bore children thus the introduction of human death. I say human death because as I understand the Bible does not speak of animals never dying only man. If they ate from the fruit they would die - then and only then. "For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there is no one else." -Isa 45:18 ASV - 1901 ... "Happy are the meek for they shall inherit the earth" Mt 5:5 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: The Country Owl BBS *519-693-7152* (1:2401/504) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: F5J00023 Date: 05/14/98 From: SIMON KOYOUNIAN Time: 10:20pm \/To: GEORGE HARPER (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: God's Choices vs man' -=> Quoting George Harper to Jasen Betts <=- GH> The difficulty with your idea is that there is no basis for the GH> assumption that Adam and Eve were created immortal. The death that GH> they incurred by eating the forbidden fruit was a death of their GH> innocence and their spirit. The ejection from Eden was their PHYSICAL GH> punishment, not necessarily loss of immortality. The only ones that are granted immortality as I understand are: Christ Jesus and the anointed co-rulers in heaven numbering 144,00. - 1Cor 15:53,54; 1Ti 6:14-16; Ro 8:11; Re 14:1-3 Angels are not immortal nor are humans, or animals. The reason I say this about angels is because the Bible fortells the end of Satan the Devil and his hords. Immortality means life within yourself and not reliance on God. Adam and Eve needed God for life. As for Adam being designated to eventually go to heaven and not stay here on earth, why did Jehovah God not put him there in the first place. This he certainly did with the Cherubs, Angels, Seraphs etc. The Bible is clear at Romans 8:11 we were created mortal but by God's love and mercy he extends immortality to those chosen to be kings and priests in heaven. As for everyone else they may attain everlasting life which word caries a different meaning than immortality. :-) If Adam was not mortal then God could not judge him to death since he would not be dependent upon God for future life. ... File not found, I'll load something *I* think is interesting. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: The Country Owl BBS *519-693-7152* (1:2401/504) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: FA300000 Date: 05/23/98 From: RELATIF TUINN Time: 01:48am \/To: MICHAEL TOWNSEND (Read 1 times) Subj: "whosoever".... - 2 Michael Townsend on ""whosoever".... - 2" with Brant Wells (26 Apr 98)... MT> In other words, your supposed "salvation" depends on you. MT> So there's only a CHANCE you MIGHT get to Heaven; MT> There's a VERY big CHANCE you'll go to Hell, where you justifiably MT> belong. Judge not lest ye be judged. It seems that when Brant arrives in hell you'll be there to greet him. Relatif Tuinn ... Do you really think that all the heat of all the Universe could really have been contained in something smaller than an atom at the time of the Big Bang? That must surely have been more magic than all the science fiction that was ever invented. - Laurie Appletoon (Evolution, 11/4/98) --- Spot 1.3a #1413 * Origin: 1+1=2 2+2=4 4+4=12 12+12=24 (2:254/305.666) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 120 BIBLE Ref: FA300001 Date: 05/23/98 From: RELATIF TUINN Time: 01:52am \/To: AUDREY LESCHINSKI (Read 1 times) Subj: Esau was Rejected Audrey Leschinski on "Esau was Rejected" with me (19 May 98)... MA>> Does God condemn the innocent? RT>> According to the bible, god condemned thousands of children of two RT>> years of age and under so that his child could be born. AL> God did not condemn these children -- MAN did! c/man/"a" man. AL> Herod's insecurities & AL> jealousy got the best of him, and it was his will that caused the AL> infantcide. And god, having prescience, knew that this would happen. He carried on regardless. ie. God forced Herod's hand. Relatif Tuinn ... No matter how often a foolish thing is repeated it is still a foolish thing! - Laurie Appletoon (Evolution, 8/2/98) --- Spot 1.3a #1413 * Origin: 10^2=100 11^2=121 12^2=144 13^2=224 (2:254/305.666)