--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFS00005 Date: 11/22/97 From: WL-SKI Time: 12:04am \/To: DORIS DIGNARD (Read 1 times) Subj: Soil JG>>soil is sooo hard and clayey that not many of veggies did good this year, CG>>I would think that in general sand and vegetable matter were good bets. DD> Can you use the sand that builders use? I thought that this was a type of silica...clue me in here. Sand *is* silica... (but not all silica is sand :) Most of us settle for builder's sand (or play sand, which can usualy be bought by the bag). Actually, good soil contains not only humus and sand (or something to hold everything apart, like Gypsum), but also, clay! Each serves it's own purpose (the humus holds the particles apart , keeping things light, and absorbent; the sand keeps the particles from sticking together too much, and allows for free exchange of air [not *air pockets*, but soil must be able to breathe] and water; and the clay keeps it all from being washed, blown, or carried away, and holds it all together) and each is important to the over-all performance of the soil. There are other constituents, as well, but these are the main ones. So, each is important in it's own right. The goal is to achieve a nice, friable mix... not too tight, not too loose. Just 'working' the soil will improve it greatly. In fact, if there have not been gardens where you are wishing to work, *that* may be the biggest problem... If you will just begin to turn that soil over, you will begin to win your battle... and if you are experiencing winter, you can enjoy *it* (winter weather) doing half your work *for* you, as the freezing and thawing, snow, rain, ... (you know that normal *winter* stuff that seems to go along with "winter weather" :) is better than a dozen hoes at work! So, go ahead and turn that future garden 'spot' over, adding what you will, and let ol'Man Winter barrel on through! Your ground will be the better for it (and so will your aching muscles & back! :) cheers, WL Sakowski --- * Origin: gn3.gratisnet.com (1:170/302.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFS00006 Date: 11/22/97 From: WL-SKI Time: 12:14am \/To: DORIS DIGNARD (Read 1 times) Subj: Soil CG>> And potatoes. They are supposed to be great at conditioning soil. DD> Chris has mentioned potatoes...I expect that he can't mean "growing" them in clay. Your best DD> potatoes come in a more sandy soil...(I think). Any under-the-ground crop must have a friable (or loose type) soil in order to "make". I have eaten many a potato that was grown in an (ever-growing) hay pile... But, I have grown them in poor soil and then just turned it all under (and looked forward to maybe finding a few hardy volunteers, in the turning process...) Most certainly, the "vines" that are turned under *do* act as great "conditioning"! cheers, WL Sakowski --- * Origin: gn3.gratisnet.com (1:170/302.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFS00007 Date: 11/22/97 From: WL-SKI Time: 12:21am \/To: DORIS DIGNARD (Read 1 times) Subj: Soil JG>>soil is sooo hard and clayey that not many of veggiesdid good this year, CG>>I would think that in general sand and vegetable matterwere good bets. DD> Can you use the sand that builders use? I thought that this was a type of silica...clue me in here. Sand *is* silica (but, not all silica is sand :) ... and builder's sand is what most of us must settle for. Not all sand is 'sharp', but the idea is to try to stay away from the really fine stuff, as it doesn't go as far, nor does it 'cut through' the clay as well. Sand really doesn't keep those clay particles *apart*, so when the sand washes through, it is gone and your clay particles are free to stick to one another, once again. If you will work some organic matter (preferably *already* composted), this will help to hold those particles apart. Just working the soil is helpful, as, in the process, you *will* be working (whatever) organic matter that is present on the surface down into the subsoil. But, the process will be shortened considerably, if you purposely add organic matter. Good soil contains *all* three ingredients... organic matter (compost, [leaf mold, which is lighter than compost]) sand, *and* clay. And, depending on *what* you're planting, you need to ammend, accordingly. In Oklahoma, (in the areas that *I've* attempted to garden, :) we have a great need to add, not only sand, but humus. (And, if you've spent any time at all here, you already *know* that the reason we have so little humus is that the *wind* blows it all to Kansas and Nebraska! :) Anyway,... We can add copious amounts of humus, but, without adding sand (or Gypsum, which is a superior soil conditioner), we just end up with even stickier(when wet), tighter(when dry), "gumbo", as it is called here. So, it is helpful and important, to turn it, adding whichever ingredient is needed. Also, the last thing to go into a bed, here, is *mulch*! This will help to keep it from all having to be done... completely all over again! cheers, WL Sakowski --- * Origin: gn3.gratisnet.com (1:170/302.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFS00008 Date: 11/22/97 From: CHRISTOPHER GREAVES Time: 05:50pm \/To: BARBARA HAZEN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Soil CG> exchange cantelope coffee and/or jam ..... BH>Did you grow the coffee or buy it? What kind of jam? I make coffee-substitute out of canteloupe and pumpkin seeds. A quaint after-dinner beverage for those who don't want to drink coffee. I make my own jam and give it away. Most any fruit that is in season. Nectarine, peach and plum, marmalade, and so on. I often do a mixture. I made some "Nectartarine" this year - a blend of nectarines and tart apples. BH>dried it in doing nothing. If you still have it I'll bring my hand-grinder I purchased out of Rochester earlier this year and show you how to make mint tea .... BH>the small area so am looking for vegs that do not take up much room and BH>are easy to work with. I am blind so I need plants that are distinct BH>enough for me to tell them apart. This is important since my husband It seems that climbing vegetables, such as concurbits (pumpkins, cucumber etc) and beans would be ideal for several reasons: 1) they can be trained vertically 2) once off the ground, weeds don't reach them, so anything that is more than three inches away from the stake is a weed. (keep your nephew indoors during *this* operation!) 3) they (climbers, not nephews) tend to have ditinctly rougher leaves, I think. BH>Anyway, I digress. Drop me a line and I will look for and at my mint. Ok I'll bite. If you are blind, how are you going to look at your mint? Also, before we get tossed out of here and into another conference (grin!) what reader are you using? I played around with a couple for a friend here in Toronto, then drove down to Atlanta to obtain lots of demo disks of other systems. I could make copies of those diskettes for you if you are interested. christopher.greaves@ablelink.org www.interlog.com/~cgreaves * 1st 2.00b #6263 * Don't Brake! --- PCBoard (R) v15.3 (OS/2) 5 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFS00009 Date: 11/22/97 From: DORIS DIGNARD Time: 09:24pm \/To: CHRISTOPHER GREAVES (Read 1 times) Subj: Soil DD>When we wanted sand to add to our soil, we went to the beach and loaded CG>The OCEAN beach? Wouldn't that be terribly saline salt? Oh sure, Chris.....KEW BEACH!!!! Doris Dignard dorisdignard@better.net doris.dignard@capcanada.com * 1st 2.00 #9125 * Celts never die...they just have harp failure. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3 (OS/2) 5 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFS00010 Date: 11/22/97 From: DORIS DIGNARD Time: 09:26pm \/To: CHRISTOPHER GREAVES (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Soil DD>.............................. This is probably a different problem so DD>you can now ignore me....:) CG>OK, but do me a favour and next time put the disclaimer at the >TOP of the message (grin!) NEVER!!!!!!!! Doris Dignard dorisdignard@better.net doris.dignard@capcanada.com * 1st 2.00 #9125 * Hippies never die...they just go to pot. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3 (OS/2) 5 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFS00011 Date: 11/22/97 From: DORIS DIGNARD Time: 09:33pm \/To: ROB PRINGLE (Read 1 times) Subj: Soil DD>Can you use the sand that builders use? I thought that this was a type DD>of silica...clue me in here. RP> No, NEVER! I have to try and find an article I read not long ago on > the various types of sand. Some are absolutely not suitable for > plants, and builder's sand was at the top of that list. Thanks for that...I hope Chris Greaves reads this....Nyah Nyah Nyah, Chris. Doris Dignard dorisdignard@better.net doris.dignard@capcanada.com * 1st 2.00 #9125 * Insanity is inherited, you get it from your children. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3 (OS/2) 5 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFS00012 Date: 11/21/97 From: DEBBIE FORD Time: 7:28 am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Knobby Trees Does anyone know anything about "knobby trees"? If so I would appreciate all of the information on them that I can get. I don't know the proper name for them. I need to know the type of temperatures that they can handle, for one thing. We received this one from my father in-law for a wedding present in Oct. I am worried about the frost that we receive here and the amount of rain that we get. The parent tree is in Long Beach California...so it is warmer and drier there than it is here in northern Calif. To help you know tree I am talking about, I will try to describe the parent tree. First you prune it back hard every year, this will form Knobby like things on the tree.....They look quite interesting..They can become very large... Debbie Ford Ford@syix.com ... Whoever is happy will make others happy too. --- DLG Pro v1.16 * Origin: ShadowFire_Amiga Honcut, Ca. (1:119/699) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFT00000 Date: 11/23/97 From: CHRISTOPHER GREAVES Time: 09:14am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: A second use .... It seems overly ambitious to ask people to eliminate wasteful practices overnight; ecological management is a process, not an act. However, (OPINION mode locked on) it seems to me that *everyone* on the planet could perform a simple evaluation on every object we use or touch: "Have I used this thing twice?" Porceleian coffee mugs are OK. We use, rinse and reuse until next Christmas time. Metal knives and spoons likewise. Many of us wash and re-use plastic food or milk bags, either for soup storage or for potting soil, or as batchers for computer cables .... Candle wax can be melted, clarified and reused, if not by us, then by a hobbyist. So here's the challenge: Start examining all things you use or touch, or better yet, nag yourself each time you head to a garbage pail or waste basket. "This thing that I'm about to throw away, have I used it twice?" If the answer is yes, go in peace. If the answer is no, set the thing on the kitchen counter and leave it there for a day where it will annoy the bejasus out of you. If you still can't find a second use, (just a second use, not a third or a fourth), reply to me here and I'll come up with something! In summary, the purpose of this exercise is to get people thinking. The key to using materials over and over again is that vital second use. Without the second use, there can be no third or fourth use. christopher.greaves@ablelink.org www.interlog.com/~cgreaves * 1st 2.00b #6263 * Don't Brake! --- PCBoard (R) v15.3 (OS/2) 5 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 208 HOME & GARDEN Ref: EFT00001 Date: 11/23/97 From: CHRISTOPHER GREAVES Time: 08:41am \/To: DORIS DIGNARD (Read 1 times) Subj: Soil > plants, and builder's sand was at the top of that list. DD>Thanks for that...I hope Chris Greaves reads this....Nyah Nyah Nyah, I didn't, but I'll reply anyway: What *is* it about builder's sand that plants don't like? Is it the size of the grains? The shape of the grains? Is there some additive (quicklime?) Is it the price? In making concrete for small projects, I've used washed sand from the ground (yup, the yellow sand from the yellow-sandplain), sand from the roadside culverts, almost anywhere. If ordinary sand works for builders, why doesn't builders sand work for gardeners? christopher.greaves@ablelink.org www.interlog.com/~cgreaves * 1st 2.00b #6263 * Don't Brake! --- PCBoard (R) v15.3 (OS/2) 5 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710)