--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC200000 Date: 08/01/96 From: LAWRENCE GARVIN Time: 11:55am \/To: MIKE BILOW (Read 1 times) Subj: WARP Connect -> WIN95. Mike Bilow said in a message to Lawrence Garvin: MB> Absolutely not, although it was Novell's fault. Formally, MB> 802.3 is a *hardware* standard that defines the raw Ethernet MB> frame. Novell just threw IPX over it using raw frames MB> originally, assuming that no one would ever run anything except MB> IPX on the same wire. On the other hand, 802.2 is a *software* MB> standard that provides for protocol identifiers, so it allows MB> straightforward operation of multiple protocols on the same MB> wire. MB> In other words, Novell's "802.3" frame type is not really a MB> protocol, but is the lack of any protocol. Under the MB> circumstances, Novell's migration of IPX to 802.2 with a proper MB> protocol identifier was the best they could do to fix a stupid MB> mistake that should not have been made in the first place. Thankyou for the clarification. I was not aware of those subtle differences. lawrence@garvin.hd.co.harris.tx.us --- * Origin: The Health Center * Houston, Texas (1:106/2223) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC200001 Date: 08/01/96 From: BOB HOLIDAY Time: 07:25pm \/To: JOHN HENTSCH (Read 1 times) Subj: Wanted: Lantastic for OS/2 Hello John! Wednesday July 31 1996 20:56, John Hentsch wrote to All: JH> I'm looking to buy a copy of Lantastic for OS/2. Send me netmail, or internet e-mail. I have a copy that is unregistered (manuals..etc), that I'm no longer using. Let's make a deal. Bob 1:120/125 Bob3508@aol.com r.holiday@worldnet.att.net ... Anyone can get lost in a fog, but @TOFIRST@ creates his own. --- JMail-G 2.80d * Origin: Living in interesting times (FIDONET 1:120/125) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC200002 Date: 08/01/96 From: GEORGE FLIGER Time: 07:44am \/To: LAWRENCE GARVIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: WARP Connect -> WIN95. On 30 Jul 96 05:56pm, Lawrence Garvin wrote to Henk Abma: LG> Effectively enabling only the 802.2 support, which is the LG> default frame type for Netware 3.x and later. Dontcha just love LG> that MPTS documentation. HA> So why does the software let you support all frame types, if HA> you only can succeed by picking the right one... LG> Ran into the same problem, Henk. OS/2 IPX uses the -first- LG> listed frame type as the one to try to find the initial server. LG> Try reordering the frame types so that the frame type -you- are LG> using is listed first. LG> Probably this goes back to the age of OS/2. It was -NETWARE- LG> who decided to screw the system up and switch to 802.2 frame LG> types, when the rest of the world has been using 802.3 for IPX LG> and Ethernet_II for TCP all the time. The problem is easily solved by simply binding multiple protocols at the server. That way, it doesn't matter what protocol is set as default in OS/2's MPTS. It will find the servers because they (the servers) support all the protocols you plan on using. There is a bit of overhead from adding in additional bound protocols on the server but I've found that it's insignificant. George ... Brevity is the soul of lingerie. --- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P BT003 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Bradenton, Fl * 941-745-5677 * (1:137/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC300000 Date: 08/02/96 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 11:16pm \/To: CHRIS WOLCOTT (Read 1 times) Subj: 802.2 Question Chris Wolcott wrote in a message to Mike Bilow: CW> When I setup OS/2 here at work, the connection to the AS/400 CW> (SNA) requires an 802.2 protocol. From what I've read here, CW> 802.2 is an Ethernet protocol. Does that mean SNA uses the CW> same frames as Ethernet? Running the same frames does not CW> make it Ethernet, does it? (We're not running ANY Ethernet CW> to the AS/400, just Twin-Ax and Token-Ring.) IEEE 802.2 is a software standard that defines the logical format of a frame. IEEE 802.3 is a hardware standard that defines the operation of a CSMA/CD network such as Ethernet. IEEE 802.5 is a hardware standard that defines the operation of a token ring network such as SNA. You can use 802.2 frames and protocols above either 802.3 or 802.5 networks. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC300001 Date: 08/02/96 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 11:20pm \/To: CHRIS WOLCOTT (Read 1 times) Subj: Multi-Protocols Chris Wolcott wrote in a message to George Fliger: CW> I tried to load TCP/IP, NetBEUI and NetBEUI over TCP/IP, but CW> the setup wants a seperate card for the 'second' NetBeui. I CW> am experimenting with TCP/IP, with am aim to convert to it. CW> Until then, I need the IPX, NetBIOS and 802.2 (SNA) also. CW> Can I have all on one physical card, or do I need to bite CW> the bullet and add a second card (and line to the phone CW> room....) to get this to work? Will loading NetBEUI over CW> TCP/IP also allow normal NetBEUI traffic? No, you only need one card. NDIS (and thus MPTS) speaks in terms of a "logical board," which is not the same thing as a physical board. The notion of a logical board is just a convention to keep straight what is linked to what in the PROTOCOL.INI file. CW> Also, at a computer show here a vendor of a NETBIOS DNS said CW> even NetBIOS over TCP/IP can not be routed because the CW> router can't see into the TCP/IP packet to get the CW> destination address from the NetBIOS frame. I thought that CW> was the whole idea of running NetBIOS thru TCP/IP? Did I CW> understand him correctly? Isn't the TCP/IP header built CW> with the appropriate address already in it? The person you spoke with was simply wrong. NetBIOS is fully encapsulated inside TCP/IP when using "TCPBEUI," and therefore is fully routeable as would be any other IP frame. What is difficult is setting up the map so that frames for certain NetBIOS nodes go to particular IP addresses, but that's a configuration and administration issue. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC300002 Date: 07/31/96 From: TOM BROWN Time: 11:54pm \/To: JEFF DUNLOP (Read 1 times) Subj: Warp Server as TCP/IP ro Hi Jeff: JD> Is it possible for a Warp Server to act as a TCP/IP router using a JD> dialup connection on the server? I don't see how to get past the JD> allocated IP address that's assigned by the ISP. What you need is IP Masquerading. Basically, an application can map a bunch of IP addresses into one address by doing some juggling at the session level. The end result is a bunch of nodes all look like the same machine to the outside world. The draw back is that it is difficult to allow the outside world back in. Lynix does this for free and has done so for some time. The only OS/2 based product that I know of which does this is a beta version of the IN-JOY dialer. While it is called a dialer, it is a serious PPP/dialer implementation (http://www.belle.dk/~bj/dialer.html). Bjarne Jensen, author of IN-JOY, is even talking about dial on demand, which would allow you to make a connection only when someone requires one. It sounds like a full release of this dialer is quite imminent. Best wishes, Tom tom.brown@swp.com * KWQ/2 1.2g * Klingon Prime Directive: If it moves, shoot it. --- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro * Origin: The Green Zone (1:140/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC300003 Date: 08/02/96 From: MIKE BILOW Time: 06:59pm \/To: GEORGE FLIGER (Read 1 times) Subj: WARP Connect -> WIN95. George Fliger wrote in a message to Lawrence Garvin: LG> Probably this goes back to the age of OS/2. It was -NETWARE- LG> who decided to screw the system up and switch to 802.2 frame LG> types, when the rest of the world has been using 802.3 for IPX LG> and Ethernet_II for TCP all the time. GF> The problem is easily solved by simply binding multiple GF> protocols at the server. That way, it doesn't matter what GF> protocol is set as default in OS/2's MPTS. It will find the GF> servers because they (the servers) support all the protocols GF> you plan on using. I don't recommend this except for temporary transition. There are inherent problems with using raw frames, which Novell calls the 802.3 frame type, that can cause interference with other legitimate protocols on the wire. The use of a real protocol with a real protocol identifier, which Novell calls the 802.2 frame type, is far superior and more robust. You might not notice the difference in a pure Novell IPX environment unless you had need for the workstations to communicate directly (as in Doom), but serious problems result from using the "802.3 frame type" if SNA or any other major 802.2 frame type with a non-IPX protocol identifier is present. GF> There is a bit of overhead from adding in additional bound GF> protocols on the server but I've found that it's insignificant. I agree that the overhead of binding multiple frame types to IPX on a Novell server is insignificant, but this has nothing to do with why it is a bad dea. -- Mike --- * Origin: N1BEE BBS +1 401 944 8498 V.34/V.FC/V.32bis/HST16.8 (1:323/107) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC300004 Date: 08/02/96 From: CHRIS WOLCOTT Time: 02:21pm \/To: MIKE BILOW (Read 1 times) Subj: 802.2 Question When I setup OS/2 here at work, the connection to the AS/400 (SNA) requires an 802.2 protocol. From what I've read here, 802.2 is an Ethernet protocol. Does that mean SNA uses the same frames as Ethernet? Running the same frames does not make it Ethernet, does it? (We're not running ANY Ethernet to the AS/400, just Twin-Ax and Token-Ring.) --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The OUTER LIMITS: Another BBS proudly running OS/2 WARP! (1:3612/250) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC300005 Date: 08/02/96 From: CHRIS WOLCOTT Time: 02:30pm \/To: MACK NETHKIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Warp Server as TCP/IP router? So, your saying a PROXY server is what you need to do a virtual-ip setup on my side of the gateway? (IE: I use made up IPs on my side and a PROXY server will translate them into valid IPs on the INet side and back again?) --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The OUTER LIMITS: Another BBS proudly running OS/2 WARP! (1:3612/250) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 207 OS2 LAN Ref: DC300006 Date: 08/02/96 From: CHRIS WOLCOTT Time: 02:33pm \/To: GEORGE FLIGER (Read 1 times) Subj: Multi-Protocols I tried to load TCP/IP, NetBEUI and NetBEUI over TCP/IP, but the setup wants a seperate card for the 'second' NetBeui. I am experimenting with TCP/IP, with am aim to convert to it. Until then, I need the IPX, NetBIOS and 802.2 (SNA) also. Can I have all on one physical card, or do I need to bite the bullet and add a second card (and line to the phone room....) to get this to work? Will loading NetBEUI over TCP/IP also allow normal NetBEUI traffic? Also, at a computer show here a vendor of a NETBIOS DNS said even NetBIOS over TCP/IP can not be routed because the router can't see into the TCP/IP packet to get the destination address from the NetBIOS frame. I thought that was the whole idea of running NetBIOS thru TCP/IP? Did I understand him correctly? Isn't the TCP/IP header built with the appropriate address already in it? --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The OUTER LIMITS: Another BBS proudly running OS/2 WARP! (1:3612/250)