--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5P00001 Date: 05/17/97 From: RAINER DE VRIES Time: 12:18am \/To: JOE KOTROCZO (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Any Experiences with Ultracurve by B00:18:0005/17/97 RdV>> I want to buy a new Equalizer, so I thought of Behringer's Ultracurve > Although I just used it twice, I think it is a wonderful device. Just take > PS: Versuchs auch mal in der TONTECHNIK.GER, da findest du einen Haufen Thaenx for this very guten Tip, 'caus it's much easier for me to write in my native language... Ciao Rainschn --- CrossPoint v3.1 R * Origin: (2:241/1135.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5P00002 Date: 05/16/97 From: BONNIE GOODWIN Time: 01:30pm \/To: MARV HUBBARD (Read 1 times) Subj: Dj equipment Hi Marv, -> Guess it was just the great sound eminating from the name tag that -> made so many studios use JBL's 4310, and 4312 monitors as first -> choice for mix downs. If we had a small piece of the money generated -> by the hits mixed with those babies over the years, the whole damn -> lot of us could retire to the Bahamas. Course, now ya gotta have a -> set of Genelecs to go with em, but they are still my first choice, -> cuz i can't swing the $55,000 price tag for the Genelecs i lust -> after.. We agree on this as well. While originally very much an Altec Lansing fan because I love horns and point sources clarity and coherence, the Genelec line is very nice stuff. I like the plug in a line level and feed it AC approach to monitoring systems. Get's rid of some nasty problems in engineering that most don't really need to go though to get quality and reliable monitoring systems. But like the Meyer HD-1 system, is quite pricy over the do it yourself approach. I became a JBL fan in the early '70's and have attended numerous seminars in CADP, Sound System Design that they have put on, and have followed their progress via the journals, and have considerable experience with many of the Harmon lines. Fine stuff, some of the best engineering and collaborative research (Crown Tecron), UREI signal processing and power amps, etc.) that make them a tough act to follow. BTW, I mentioned that I am a horn freak, I love their constant directivity series of horns, and the 4425-30-35 series of studio monitors with the "baby cheek" high horn, and their much larger "contractor" series when mated with the best of the drivers, are very difficult to beat for "in your faceness" and efficiency, yet not at all honky like some horns can get. Bonnie *:> --- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0249 * Origin: The Capitol City Gateway, Since Dec 1979, 916-381-8788 (1:203/909) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5P00003 Date: 05/16/97 From: BONNIE GOODWIN Time: 01:57pm \/To: PAUL DAVIS (Read 1 times) Subj: Dj equipment Hi Paul, I see we have clashed pretty good on that last go around. If I was overly harsh, apologies, but I too have been a working professional in this industry much longer than I care to admit to at this point! Like you I am capable of determining the needs of the install client, engineer a system that will meet those needs and install it to the satisfaction of the client. That is the bottom line in the install market. -> Nope. Does Denon sell big power amps???... Didn't know that was a requirement of your specification, that every piece of equipment be made by the same manufacturer. I pick and choose from ALL of the options available for a given piece of equipment. -> I would rather not get into brand names, but I do sell all the big -> names... There is a lot of really good stuff out there for the Pro, -> and name isn'yteverything.... Trust me on this one.. I am not trying -> to sell you ANYTHING... Believe me, I'm not stuck on a brand name at all. It's what gets the job done with the best sound at the cheapest price that drives me. But, understand that decades of experience with a company like JBL in using and engineering systems with the projects may give me a somewhat unique perspective as to just how good the Harmon International folks are at their best.. the entire group of companies that are engineering related and make complementary products that when combined in an properly engineered system have uncanny projection, clarity, intelligibility (when you're trying to get the Word of God across the local church sound system, you better have this one in mind). -> Look at the specs, see how road worthy it is... Then -> weight how much $$$$ vers how well it preforms (specs) look at the -> Power Amp, an try to see what you will be doing with it.. Add 25% -> head room and that is what you should buy... Most of the big boys -> have been around a long time... Buy a Power Amp that has been around -> and has been really well road tested. Roadability isn't a factor in a permenant install, how long it lasts and can take the heat while functioning perfectly is, as it is a part of the building at that point. Having toured for almost 10 years, I can appreaciate a well built power amplifier, including Crowns, Phase Linear, JBL, yada yada yada. HOW DOES IT SOUND? Isn't that important to you? I personally use a set of Klipsch 250As for one of the studio monitor sets as well as a live keyboard sound system speakers. Why? Because of all of the different systems that I auditioned, it sounded the best by far to my ears, and has never let me down. I didn't let price or brand name affect my personal choice. I bought them on the spot and haven't regretted it since. In high power situations I have a pair of large 18" subs, which hardly ever get pushed at all, because I go for a balanced frequency response, an accurate one, not a disco exaggerated curve like the famed smiley face curves. The point is, if it don't sound good, whether it is the supposedly best equipment ever designed or the cheapest K-Mart stereo system, then don't bother, and don't let something cheap that sounds good disuade you from a possible purchase, but beware that the cheaper component is cheaper for SOME reason other than sound quality, like you get to buy a new one every other week or so. I don't think that we are really too far from each other, but you have yet to mention just what you might believe would be easily as good as JBL in a system. Please drop a few names that you believe are compriable or superior to JBL product at a cheaper price. Bonnie *:> --- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0249 * Origin: The Capitol City Gateway, Since Dec 1979, 916-381-8788 (1:203/909) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5P00004 Date: 05/16/97 From: BONNIE GOODWIN Time: 12:47pm \/To: JOE KOTROCZO (Read 1 times) Subj: Ping Pong! Bonnie *:> --- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0249 * Origin: The Capitol City Gateway, Since Dec 1979, 916-381-8788 (1:203/909) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5P00005 Date: 05/16/97 From: BONNIE GOODWIN Time: 01:17pm \/To: NANCY WOOD (Read 1 times) Subj: price of tea in China Hi Nancy! Sorry it has taken so long to get back to your interesting message about the Country end of things. I've recently been playing music much more including some local pub and for organizations in a '60's band with two other women (lead vocalist/Rythym guitar/percussion/harmonicas and bass with backups and some lead vocal) and two guys (lead guitar with some lead/backing vocals/and drummers). I'm about as musically active as I've been in quite a while, until getting ready to strike at the pub gig after a fairly good opening with a new three piece ensemble (me on keys, other two guys mostly on guitars and vocals doing originals). Anyway, while reaching over the front of the lighting console to bring up the lights on the stage so we could see something, I hit a patch of spilled beer on the floor and went down taking out my left knee. That and a hard disk crash on the computer I use the most for telecommunications left me incommunicado. I've elso been getting documentation and stuff together for consideration for a teaching position locally in recording technology, which sounds like a fun job... About concert tickets.. and the price of tea in China.. It seems to me that unions shouldn't be blamed for that, while I'm not really privy to the workings at someplace like Bill Graham Productions or others, I have worked enough of their shows to know that with few exceptions everyone there is working their prospective butts off to get the show ready to go one, and at the end get everything stuffed into trucks before 4 hours is up. The labor cost is a small percentage of the overall cost of the productions is a large part of it, the increasingly complex sound, lighting, large screen video projectors equipment, Varilite, laser, F/X, staging, etc. that is increasing the ticket prices and forcing more and more shows into larger and hopefully more profitable venues. The country market has some shows that are the equal to the razzle and dazzle of the rock markets... contrast Reba with KISS as an example, Reba's sound system was the equal of most any sound system I've ever seen, her staging was almost Broadway like at times, both had about the same number of trucks at the loading docks. Complexity of the install being of a similar scope. Then too, it's what the market will handle... U-2 is getting $37 @ seat for this tour, I know inflation has gotten worse, but I saw the Beatles for $5 when I young (went with my grandmother). Sorry, I'll wait for the cable special! Talk soon, Nancy! Bonnie *:> --- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0249 * Origin: The Capitol City Gateway, Since Dec 1979, 916-381-8788 (1:203/909) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5P00006 Date: 05/17/97 From: NANCY WOOD Time: 01:01pm \/To: BONNIE GOODWIN (Read 1 times) Subj: price of tea in China BG> about the Country end of things. I've recently been playing BG> music much BG> more including some local pub and for organizations in a '60's BG> band BG> with two other women (lead vocalist/Rythym BG> guitar/percussion/harmonicas and bass with backups and some BG> lead vocal) BG> and two guys (lead guitar with some lead/backing vocals/and BG> drummers). That sounds (in my Arte Johnson voice) "vewy Interesting"! BG> and vocals doing originals). Anyway, while reaching over the BG> front of BG> the lighting console to bring up the lights on the stage so we BG> could see BG> something, I hit a patch of spilled beer on the floor and went BG> down BG> taking out my left knee. That and a hard disk crash on the BG> computer I BG> use the most for telecommunications left me incommunicado. I read the short 'disclaimer' on these two events. Something about doing the "Clinton" shuffle! I'm glad to see ya back in here! BG> consideration for a teaching position locally in recording BG> technology, BG> which sounds like a fun job... If'n it's what you want, "GO Bonnie!" BG> About concert tickets.. and the price of tea in China.. It BG> seems to me that unions shouldn't be blamed for that, while I'm not eally BG> privy to the workings at someplace like Bill Graham Productions or BG> others, I have worked enough of their shows to know that with few BG> exceptions everyone there is working their prospective butts off to get BG> the show ready to go one, and at the end get everything stuffed into BG> trucks before 4 hours is up. That was my thinking and knowledge as well. I knew from having done sound work for club concerts how quickly everything goes up and comes down (I'd like to see that lady that was complaining about the costs try to do anything required of stagehands within the time frame. I tried to give her an idea of what all was involved in the costs of Reba's show, as well as a couple she had mentioned like Kathy Mattea's show (one in San Jose versus one in San Diego). She claimed the cheaper cost of the tickets in San Jose was because it was a 'non-union' show, while the one in San Diego used union workers. After all was said and done, I think I made my point... cause she started saying "This is totally off-topic" - after all, she was complaining about the costs of her COUNTRY music tickets now versus what they used to be. As for the tear-outs, keep those costs to "4-hour minimums!" Been there done it, got the t-shirt! BG> The labor cost is a small percentage of the overall cost of BG> the productions is a large part of it, the increasingly complex BG> sound, lighting, large screen video projectors equipment, Varilite, BG> laser, F/X, staging, etc. that is increasing the ticket prices and orcing BG> more and more shows into larger and hopefully more profitable venues. You're talking to the choir on this... I explained 'more complex stages, video, laser, sound, lighting and all the other hardware involved as well as promotors and musicians demands for higher wages made for larger 'and more profitable venues'. Also the statement "what the local market can support" was also put in the statement. BG> The country market has some shows that are the equal to the BG> razzle and dazzle of the rock markets... contrast Reba with KISS as an BG> example, Reba's sound system was the equal of most any sound system I've BG> ever seen, her staging was almost Broadway like at times, both had BG> about the same number of trucks at the loading docks. Complexity of the And this year's tour with Brooks and Dunn is supposed to be even more 'pricey' from what I've heard. Course that's getting 3 birds with one stone BG> Then too, it's what the market will handle.. I think I remember saying that! BG> U-2 is getting $37 @ seat for this tour, I know inflation has BG> gotten worse, but I saw the Beatles for $5 when I young (went with my BG> grandmother). Sorry, I'll wait for the cable special! I went to see folks when I was young that my parents thought 5-8 dollars was "too much". I'd hate to be raising one now, when 35-50 is much more the norm. Me too! Plus I'd rather see the performer a little closer than : 1)sitting in floor seats even 4 rows from stage and not being able to see the performer for all the folks standing in front of me 2) sitting in a seat further back or all the way in the crow's nest, and not be able to see the performer *EXCEPT* for on a wide screen monitor (what's the difference than watching on tv at home - the cost of the ticket, and the roar of the crowd!). Like you said, "I'lll wait for the cable special" and put my money toward cd's of my choice and a new entertainment center! The only comment I could really give her was compare "your job and benefits to what IATSE/stagehands get" (on a monetary level alone). Then she dropped the thread. Nancy --- FMail 1.02 * Origin: Electronic Avenue * San Antonio, TX * 210-333-0060 (1:387/510) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5P00007 Date: 05/17/97 From: MARV HUBBARD Time: 08:05pm \/To: BONNIE GOODWIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Dj equipment Hello Bonnie! Friday May 16 1997 13:30, Bonnie Goodwin wrote to Marv Hubbard: BG> Hi Marv, ->> Guess it was just the great sound eminating from the name tag that ->> made so many studios use JBL's 4310, and 4312 monitors as first BG> We agree on this as well. While originally very much an Altec Lansing BG> fan because I love horns and point sources clarity and coherence, the Not to tell my age or anything like that, but for live jobs, the Voice's are still my first choice. Totally outdated, and cumbersome, but they have still an ambience about them that hasn't been duped by anyone yet. BG> Genelec line is very nice stuff. I like the plug in a line level and BG> feed it AC approach to monitoring systems. Get's rid of some nasty Only have gotten to hear em once, and not in a really good listening environment, but still very impressive. Just got a set of JBL's new entry level powered stuff in the other day. Sure hope they discontinue it before they do any real damage to their reputation.. BG> problems in engineering that most don't really need to go though to BG> get quality and reliable monitoring systems. But like the Meyer BG> HD-1 system, is quite pricy over the do it yourself approach. Pricy, yes, but still high on my want list, right after the new Neave Board.. BG> I became a JBL fan in the early '70's and have attended numerous BG> seminars in CADP, Sound System Design that they have put on, and have I always have been, and will always be in love with their pro line. It is just plain always there for you, and does just exactly what they claim it will, and what you have come to expect it to. Just about the only line of anything out there (with a couple of obvious exceptions) that exceeds the specs they stamp on that overpriced name tag of their's. I've still got a set of 4310's that i have had for at least 15 years, that have been abused in almost every way imaginable, and have had to be repaired once, because some clutz stuck his finger through the tweeter in one of em. Still remained quite acruate, even with the hole in the tweeter. BG> engineering and collaborative research (Crown Tecron), UREI signal BG> processing and power amps, etc.) that make them a tough act to follow. Still running mine with an OOOLLLLDDDDD Crown dc300 amp. and loving it. I did order in a new Carver when i got the new set of 4312's a couple years ago, but went right back to the old Crown. Only way to describe it is "Just plain Sweet". Some things are really hard to improve on when you get your hands on a good one.. BG> BTW, I mentioned that I am a horn freak, I love their constant BG> directivity series of horns, and the 4425-30-35 series of studio Guess we have to part company here, at least to a litle extent. Tried out a set of 4425's here, and they just didn't fit into our environment. A tad brittle, and nothing we could do would mello em out in our contol room. Only even remotely bad experience i have ever had with anything JBL makes, and in their defence, when we moved em into one of the live rooms, they were very nice. It would have taken too much restructuring to make em viable for the control room monitors.. BG> monitors with the "baby cheek" high horn, and their much larger BG> "contractor" series when mated with the best of the drivers, are very BG> difficult to beat for "in your faceness" and efficiency, yet not at BG> all honky like some horns can get. You just said all there was to say right there. When i hear people talking about their Peavey, or Carvin, or such other systems, and talk about how tight and on cue they are, ya just have to remember, they most likely haven't heard a JBL equipped system to have anything to compare it to, bight your tongue, and walk away.. Almost makes my day as much as a while back when someone mentioned that the only thing they would use a Sure sm58 for was to drive nails. Wonder if he realizes that some of the Top Studios in the world still have occasion to use a 58 on some peoples vocals. There are still some applications where they outshine even a $12,500 pair of MK-12's. Marv Hubbard ... TAGLINE A $300.00 Picture tube will protect a 10 cent fuse by blowing first. --- GoldED/2 3.00.Alpha1 UNREG * Origin: The Enterprise 2 Gig 28.8K OS/2 Warp (1:303/4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5P00008 Date: 05/17/97 From: MARV HUBBARD Time: 08:41pm \/To: BONNIE GOODWIN (Read 1 times) Subj: price of tea in China Hello Bonnie! Friday May 16 1997 13:17, Bonnie Goodwin wrote to Nancy Wood: BG> I've elso been getting documentation and stuff together for BG> consideration for a teaching position locally in recording technology, BG> which sounds like a fun job... You wil most likely really enjoy this one after you get it off and running. I do one here for the local college, only in reverse. They have a great course on the recording, and studio equipment aspect of things, but totally left out anything to do with what it should sound like when they are done with it. We take em all the way from the basics on sound, up through setting up and tuning a concert style system, and getting it to "Sound Right", effects, compressors, etc. etc., so they can take it back to the studio, and know what they are trying to acheive when they are finished with a project. You never saw so many of your prize Smily Faces as when you fisrt turn em loose with the EQ. After 8 weeks of 2 hours twice a week, they actually (or at least some of them) learn how an EQ is supposed to function. Marv Hubbard ... TAGLINE You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You'll learn a lot today. --- GoldED/2 3.00.Alpha1 UNREG * Origin: The Enterprise 2 Gig 28.8K OS/2 Warp (1:303/4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5S00000 Date: 05/20/97 From: PAUL DAVIS Time: 08:19am \/To: BONNIE GOODWIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Dj equipment Hello Bonnie! Friday May 16 1997 13:57, Bonnie Goodwin wrote to Paul Davis: BG> I see we have clashed pretty good on that last go around. If I was BG> overly harsh, apologies, but I too have been a working professional in BG> this industry much longer than I care to admit to at this point! No biggie... I love to hear the flip side of the coin. BG> HOW DOES IT SOUND? Isn't that important to you? I personally use a set BG> of Klipsch 250As for one of the studio monitor sets as well as a live BG> keyboard sound system speakers. Why? Because of all of the different BG> systems that I auditioned, it sounded the best by far to my ears, and BG> has never let me down. I didn't let price or brand name affect my BG> personal choice. I bought them on the spot and haven't regretted it BG> since. In high power situations I have a pair of large 18" subs, which BG> hardly ever get pushed at all, because I go for a balanced frequency BG> response, an accurate one, not a disco exaggerated curve like the famed BG> smiley face curves. Bonnie, we are talking about DJ equipment for a beginner, remember? Paul --- FreeMail/GoldED 2.41+ * Origin: Celtic's Online (541)995-3471 Harrisburg,OR {SupraFax288} (1:152/48) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: E5S00001 Date: 05/21/97 From: BONNIE GOODWIN Time: 01:10pm \/To: PAUL DAVIS (Read 1 times) Subj: Dj equipment Hi Paul! -> BG> HOW DOES IT SOUND? Isn't that important to you? -> Bonnie, we are talking about DJ equipment for a beginner, remember? Guess I'll rest my case on that one. Bonnie *:> --- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0249 * Origin: The Capitol City Gateway, Since Dec 1979, 916-381-8788 (1:203/909)