--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4K00003 Date: 04/16/96 From: ERIC FERRON Time: 01:42am \/To: TERRY SMITH (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Car Audio? I bump into Terry trying to explain to Eric something about Re: Car Audio? TS> venues. +5/-20 wouldn't EF> Wow... a 25dB spread! Wouldn't that just sound HORRIBLE? TS> Yes, but not unusual. I'm sure you've noticed what some idiots do TS> with consumer Eq's with +/- 12 or 15 dB ranges. Some wannabe TS> pseudo-pros too. Yes, but there is nothing we can do against theses except to organize special teams that would go into every house and correct any such problems. Highly improbable! ;) EF> speaker could have BOTH thoses specs listed, but 40-16 +/- 1dB is a lot EF> more precise and less misleading than 20-20K +/-3dB!! TS> Few speakers really approach those specs over their coverage patterns TS> and in real space. High end electronics you might spec tighter. Pro TS> tape specs should be better than that, while consumer ones (including TS> corssover) might spec at -20 cutoff. Once again my discussion isn't about speakers that will output 40-16K +/- 1dB, but with the terminalogy and clarity of the specs themself! TS> But the B&K reps can have good stories. They try to make accurate TS> underwater transducers, ones with several hundred Khz high end, ones TS> with unlistenable amplitude capacity that don't distort, as well as TS> normal audio mics. Yes, and on the other hand we have Peavey, Yamaha and ... who produce microphones! Go figure... TS> 15-130 dBspl would be ideal IMHO. Occasionally I've even been in a EF> I would deal with 40-120 quite perfectly in most cases! TS> Most transducers distort enough at the high outputs so that I'd rather TS> be able to run them conservatively. You do want to be able to handle a TS> realistic cannon blast, alternately with gentle music, don't you? I wouldn't want to hold my ears in pain while listening to it! I was tracking this week-end in a small apartment with headphones. God it was loud, I took breaks every 15-20 minutes to make sure I wasn't over taxing my ears. I have two more weeks like that and can't wait for it to be over! TS> Sonalysts sound stage in Waterford, CT beats the Universal Studios TS> noise floor. (It's also able to offer military secure facilities, SGI TS> paint boxes, sound track composition, etc.). Also, one studio I built TS> if you turned off the mechanicals. I don't know why I asked where, probably because i wished I was there! Though I still be curious to see what kind of noise level we get in sensory deprivation booths! Eric,... ... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: XON/XOFF Information Service (1:12/159) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4M00000 Date: 04/17/96 From: RAY WILSON Time: 11:32pm \/To: TERRY SMITH (Read 2 times) Subj: Car Audio? On (04 Apr 96) Terry Smith wrote to Ray Wilson... TS> There is one serious aspect of car audio that is very much a pro TS> topic, for the same reason many studios have Aurotones as secondary TS> monitors. Your reply contains some valid information. However, a Ford Escort does not strike me as an ideal "listening room". Also, the main thing I'm trying to avoid is the debating that we've been seeing here. I'm not impressed by how many blocks away one is when I begin to hear the "thump, thump, thump". I hope the car audio buffs will limit their posts to those of the technical nature and spare the rest of us any "thump wars". Ray --- PPoint 1.98 * Origin: Great Kahuna's Point (1:2215/12.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4N00000 Date: 04/19/96 From: LEE JACKSON Time: 03:57am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: +4v vs -10v I have a question that might be sort of a dead giveaway as to my knowledge of electronics and how they relate to Pro Audio. Basically, I know next to nothing about electronics theory, other than what my old Radio Shack kits taught me when I was a kid. So, please bear with me. At our studio, we have a DAL Card D+. In the docs for the card, it mentions three possible settings for the input/output jacks: +4, -10, and "consumer line level." I have checked the docs for all of the other equipment in the studio, and have found nothing to guide me in setting up this aspect of the card. So, for now, the card sits on the default "consumer line level" setting. How, pray tell, can I determine the best setting for this card, short of going to night school and taking lab/lecture classes in electronics? What is the real difference between the three settings, and what is ideal as far as they are concerned? Thanks for any assistance you can offer. BTW, the mixer in use right now has no docs with it to assist me. It is soon to be replaced by a Mackie 1402-VLZ, which might help, but that is a month or two down the road. -Lee ... Conform, go crazy, or write music for games. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 * Origin: Hack Central Station * Garland, TX (1:124/9005.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4Q00000 Date: 04/18/96 From: TERRY SMITH Time: 04:31pm \/To: ERIC FERRON (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Car Audio? TS> But the B&K reps can have good stories. They try to make accurate TS> underwater transducers, ones with several hundred Khz high end, ones TS> with unlistenable amplitude capacity that don't distort, as well as TS> normal audio mics. EF> Yes, and on the other hand we have Peavey, Yamaha and ... who produce EF> microphones! Go figure... One could outfit a 24 channel system with those MI grade mics for less than one pair of B&K's. The B&K's would actually be undesirable to someone who didn't want a mic that would simply convert to electron patterns the actual audio at its diaphragm. TS> Sonalysts sound stage in Waterford, CT beats the Universal Studios TS> noise floor. (It's also able to offer military EF> I don't know why I asked where, probably because i wished I was there! The air plenums alone for either sound stage would take more space than many entire small studios. The sound stages are isolated from bedrock and I-95 by suspension from a building exoskeleton, despite being set up so that 18 wheelers can be driven right inside. Outer doors seal with pneumatically inflated gaskets. Noise spec's are not met under one condition: when the exhaust blowers designed to dissipate massive pyro in 5-10 minutes are on. Terry --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Do it near resonance! (203)732-0575 Derby, CT (1:141/1275) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4Q00001 Date: 04/18/96 From: TERRY SMITH Time: 04:36pm \/To: RAY WILSON (Read 2 times) Subj: Car Audio? TS> There is one serious aspect of car audio that is very much a pro TS> topic, for the same reason many studios have Aurotones as secondary TS> monitors. RW> Your reply contains some valid information. However, a Ford RW> Escort does not strike me as an ideal "listening room". Also, RW> the car audio buffs will limit their posts to those of the RW> technical nature and spare the rest of us any "thump wars". I was hoping that such a topic would help the car folks better understand the distinction of pro's recognizing their market and addressing it, versus being consumers or consumer oriented business. Some of them have obviously never been in a real studio, of any of the several pro varieties (music or commercial recording, broadcast air or production, video/cine post, mastering, etc.). Terry --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Do it near resonance! (203)732-0575 Derby, CT (1:141/1275) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4Q00002 Date: 04/20/96 From: ALAN ALSOBROOK Time: 01:30am \/To: LEE JACKSON (Read 2 times) Subj: +4v vs -10v On 04-19-96 Lee Jackson wrote to All... LJ> mentions three possible settings for the input/output jacks: +4, -10, LJ> and "consumer line level." Now I'm confused, because I always refered to -10dbv as consumer line level. In any case, this has to do with the reference level of the card. +4dbV is a normal Pro line level, that means that all of the meters are on 0 at a level of +4dbv. This is the level that I run all of my studios at. By the way db is Decibels, and the v stands for voltage referenced. In days gone by they would refer to it as dbm, which stood for decibels ref to 1 milliwatt into a 600 ohm load. also in those days it was very important to make sure your source and load impeadences were correct. In todays world of Voltage referance were using low Z (impeadence) outputs with high Z inputs, thus the reason for referencing voltage as opposed to milliwatts. So to answer your question if your in a professional studio it should probably be set at +4, if your operating in a home studio -10 is more likely the propersetting. Quick hint if the jacks are RCA pin jacks use -10, if the're XLR or wire connections it's normally +4. But be aware most any studio can be set up either way. so it depends on how the studio is set up. If your the one setting up the studio I would suggest you get some assistance from someone familiar with properly leveling a studio, since it is VERY critical if you want quality output. That was the very short course.. Alan (Radio Engineer) ___ * OFFLINE 1.58 * We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company. --- Maximus 3.00 * Origin: Arcs & Sparks (904) 461-9687 St. Augustine Fl. (1:3620/16) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4Q00003 Date: 04/21/96 From: ABU HASNAT Time: 12:53am \/To: ANY DJS OUT THERE (Read 2 times) Subj: DJing Hey everybody, I am an amateur mobile DJ, y'know I do a couple of house parties and functions here and there. I would really appreciate if other DJs, amateur or professional, would get in touch to exchange info, advice or just chat, Hope ta hear from you soon, Abu. --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2h * Origin: The Diplomat BBS : 971-2-659913 (5:7411/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4Q00004 Date: 04/20/96 From: TONY TANG Time: 11:30am \/To: LEE JACKSON (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: +4v vs -10v *** Quoting Lee Jackson from a message to All *** LJ> At our studio, we have a DAL Card D+. In the docs for the card, it LJ> mentions three possible settings for the input/output jacks: +4, LJ> -10, and "consumer line level." I have checked the docs for all of LJ> the other equipment in the studio, and have found nothing to guide me LJ> in setting up this aspect of the card. So, for now, the card sits on LJ> the default "consumer line level" setting. The only way to properly match the output level is to examine your inputs on your mixer. If they are +4, then set the card to +4... same goes for -10. I doubt your mixer would have "consumer line level inputs." The Mackies have +4 inputs. --- * Origin: Morph BBS, Wilmette, IL, 847-251-2307 - (1:115/25) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4Q00005 Date: 04/20/96 From: CHRIS BAUGH Time: 01:26am \/To: LEE JACKSON (Read 2 times) Subj: +4v vs -10v LJ> mentions three possible settings for the input/output jacks: +4, -10, LJ> and "consumer line level." I have checked the docs for all of the Professional equipment such as a high-end mixer or multitrack recorder is likely to use +4. This means that the electrical signal (which represents sound waves) is 4 decibels more intense than a standard reference level. (A decibel is a handy unit of comparison between two levels.) The advantage of sending a signal at +4 is that it takes a tremendous amount of noise on the line to interfere with this strong signal. Mid-level equipment such as a cassette multitrack or mini-mixer may more likely use the -10 level, which is less resistance to noise because the audio signal is so much fainter. And consumer line level is designed for hooking up a consumer grade cassette deck, CD player, etc. LJ> How, pray tell, can I determine the best setting for this card, short Start by picking the +4 setting and turning your source equipment (whatever you've plugged in to the card) to a low level. Gradually turn up the level of the source equipment. If the card records and plays back a good quality signal, you're set. You shouldn't need to crank up the input level controls on the card too much. This will help keep your noise level down. If you aren't pleased with the results, go to the -10 setting and try again. Finally, try the consumer level setting. A large plume of smoke indicates a wrong setting, but fortunately it's very unlikely! The most common side effect to picking the wrong setting will simply be a very obvious, grating distortion on everything, or an extremely faint, noisy, distant sounding signal. If you don't get those side effects, you should be fine. LJ> is soon to be replaced by a Mackie 1402-VLZ, which might help, but Mackie's documentation is very thorough, and you could probably call them for help as well on figuring which connections and settings will best go along with their equipment. --- PPoint 1.98 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: D4Q00006 Date: 04/20/96 From: RICHARD WEBB Time: 02:54am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: Hunting full-time gig ======================================================================== Forwarded here by Richard Webb (1:283/525.5) ======================================================================== Area: MUSICIAN'S_SERVICES Date: 20 Apr 96 02:49:26 Public From: Richard Webb To: All Subject: keyboardist/recording engineer hunting work ======================================================================== Hello everyone, I'm a professional keyboardist, play all major styles of modern music, and am hunting a full-time gig. Will travel or relocate. I have over 20 years professional experience. Would be interested in a position as studio engineer also. I've been working in that field since about 1978 off and on. I live in the boondocks here in Southern Iowa, and am doing the part-time thing with two different bands now, but it doesn't keep the wolf away from the door very well. Contact me via this echo, netmail at origin below, or phone voice at (319) 753-6456. If you'd like to hear some samples of my work, contact me and I"ll get you a tape. If you've got the capability to play midi files, and would like to hear some samples of my work, call the IOwa Midi BBs at (515) 262-1370, (Fidonet 1:290/8.) and download a files list. YOu'll find a wide variety of styles represented there. I have samples of my work both engineering for a couple of studios, as well as plenty of session work I've been involved in, plus a few live basement tapes. Am definitely seeking work out of this area, as it's a sinkhole for this business. Would like to relocate somewhere, or find a position where I"m not going to have to do this again within 6 months to 5 years . Richard Webb -+- PPoint 2.00 + Origin: Electric Spider Productions (1:283/525.5) --- PPoint 2.00 * Origin: Electric Spider Productions (1:283/525.5)