--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCH00002 Date: 08/12/95 From: BILL MILLER Time: 01:15am \/To: TONY TANG (Read 4 times) Subj: Digital 8 track recorders Things seems to be settling down, so I'm ready to jump into digital. I'm prepared to buy a digital 8-track recorder yesterday, but I can't decide between the TASCAM DA-88 and the Alessis ADAT. I do professional radio production and dabble in recording music (I definately want to expand my studio into a public studio ASAP). Aside from the price differential, what the differences between the two? If you've used one or the other, which do you prefer and why? If only one of the formats survives 5 years from now, which one will it be? I anxiously await your feedback!!! --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: MercOpus * Internet FTP/Archie/News * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCI00000 Date: 08/13/95 From: TONY TANG Time: 12:39pm \/To: BILL MILLER (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: microphones BM> in addition. I've found the Electro Voice RE 20 to be an exceptional BM> microphone for the price, and superior to most professional broadcast BM> mikes. It typically lists for around $ 550.00. I got mine from Pro Thanks for the info. BTW, I'm purchasing a Mackie 32x8x2 for use with my 24-track ADAT system, and a question came up. I wasn't really satisfied with the answer my salesperson gave me -- couldn't really trust the guy. :) But the question is: Is it alright to take the unbalanced +4dBu direct outs from the channel strip into the balanced ELCO-style connector of the ADATs and come back from the alanced ELCO's into balanced +4dBu tape returns? If it's only an operating level issue, then I see no problem. However, I'm not sure if you can go from unbalanced to the balanced ELCO on the ADATs. The cold pins wouldn't be shorted in this instance with the shields. (Now that I think about it, I think it should be alright.) But let me know if you have an opinion. Thanks! --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: [FIDONET] Morph BBS, Wilmette, IL, 708-251-2307 - (1:115/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCI00001 Date: 08/13/95 From: TONY TANG Time: 01:22pm \/To: BILL MILLER (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Digital 8 track recorders BM> Things seems to be settling down, so I'm ready to jump into digital. BM> I'm prepared to buy a digital 8-track recorder yesterday, but I can't BM> decide between the TASCAM DA-88 and the Alessis ADAT. I do professional I think this question rates up there with 'What's the meaning of life?' :) But ever since the beginning I've been using the ADATs in my studio. I've definitely gone through some interesting moments with them during the past .5 years. I can only tell you about the DA88s from second-hand experience, magazine reviews, etc. The Alesis ADAT uses the SVHS format and runs at about 3x's normal video speed. Therefore, you get 40 minutes out of a 120 minute tape. The maximum time you'll get on one tape is 60 minutes if you use a T-180 tape. Because f the faster tape speed, it takes a longer time to fast forward and rewind. If you have the patience, then it shouldn't bother you that much. The DA88s use Hi8 tapes and give you about 108 minutes of recording time on a T120 tape. This is useful for extended live recording or scoring films (longer than 60 mins.). The DA88's tape speed is slower than the ADAT's, so the rewind/forward time is less. There's also a shuttle/job wheel on the remote controller for the DA88s -- not found on the ADATs. This may be useful for locating points on the tape. There's one thing about the DA88s that may shy some people away... it uses 4 stereo tape heads, similar to those found on TASCAM's DA-30 DAT machine, to record 8-channels of audio. This means that every time you record something on track 2, the information on track one is being read and re-written to the tape. You can see that there's potential or data loss here, but I haven't heard of any tragedies *yet*. Another useful feature of the DA88 is the recording frequency selector button -- 44.1kHz or 48kHz. The ADATs normally record at 48kHz, but you can vary it from about 39kHz to 50kHz -- it's almost impossible to know what frequency you're at in between unless you do some funky calculations. The ADATs also has a proprietary digital fiber optic cable that allows you to route a track from one machine to any track on another machine (with the BRC remote controller). The DA88's use a 25-pin cable which only allows you to bounce from one track on one machine to the same track on antoher machine. For example, you must bounce from track 1 on machine A to track 1 on machine B -- you can't go to track 8 on machine B. However, I must mention that you can buy a digital router (for extra $$$) which will route the data to any track like the ADATs. ADATs support ELCO-style balanced connections as well as unbalanced TS 1/4" connections. The DA88 on the other hand, has unbalanced RCA connectors (not really professional-like) and a D-sub 25-pin +4dBu balanced connector. I should also mention that the Alesis BRC (Big Remote Control) offers control of up to 16 ADATs totalling 128 tracks. It also offers MIDI timecode sync/gen, SMPTE sync/gen, video sync, and 48kHz sync/gen. The TASCAM RC848 remote controller offers control of 48 tracks, plus the jog/shuttle wheel. t doesn't provide all the sync capabilities of the BRC. The SY-88 is an add-on board you slip into your master DA88 machine to provide SMPTE timecode sync/gen, video sync, and Sony 9-pin RS-422 interface so you can control your DA88s from your video edit controller. I should mention that the Alesis AI-2 interface provides RS-422 control for the ADATs as well. Personally I feel the Hi8 format is the wiser choice (maybe because I've only worked with SVHS). If you're going to go with Hi8, I would definitely look into Sony's new 8-track digital recorder -- not sure of the model number. It looks very similar to the DA88, but I hear it has XLR connectors in the back. It may have some other improvements over the DA88. If you're going to go ith SVHS, you might want to take a look at the FOSTEX 8-track recorder. It has some more built-in features that the Alesis ADATs don't, but you can always find those in the BRC. All the Hi8 recorders are of course compatible with the other Hi8 recorders, and all the SVHS recorders are compatible with the other SVHS recorders. For radio applications, I would think that a jog/shuttle wheel is important (therefore you should buy into the Hi8 format). Then again, it's more cost-effective to purchase an ADAT since they recently went down in retail price. I should also mention the Alesis Worldwide Network. I'm not sure exactly what that is, but somehow Alesis owners communicate and exchange knowledge/tapes that way. So there you have it. :) --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: [FIDONET] Morph BBS, Wilmette, IL, 708-251-2307 - (1:115/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCJ00000 Date: 08/12/95 From: RICHARD GREANEY Time: 11:27pm \/To: TONY TANG (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Surround sound TT> I'm interested in the theory behind surround sound. In fact, I would TT> like to use it in an upcoming project. Where could I get a hold of a TT> surround sound encoder, and at about what cost? Does it merely take TT> four channels of audio and phase shift them into two audio tracks? *L* Front *R* * * * * + - - + * * * * * * ***Left*********Right*** Rear Well this is the setup I use on my stereo to give me a "surround" sound It may not be Dolby (TM) but it is apparently supposed to be the same. I also use an amp on the rear channels, since the signal is weak. This system works by cancelling the like charges across the two positives to give the rear channel the sounds that are NOT in the centre of the recording. There is no encoding involved, although a randomizer is used to record songs in this way, to make sounds appear everywhere. The thing to remember with this system is that no sound can every be heard in only one speaker, and that it is not possible to make the rears work independently. As for Dolby Pro-logic, I have no idea. THis involves a centre channel, and seems to put only the bass and treble signals into the front left and right speakers. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11 --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0457 * Origin: InfoComm BBS * +64-6-354-0245 * 3 Lines * 28.8k V.34* (3:771/580) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCJ00001 Date: 08/12/95 From: RICHARD GREANEY Time: 11:27pm \/To: TONY TANG (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: voice over mike TT> I'm planning on doing a lot of narration tracks for a documentary, and TT> I would like a few opinions on which mike I might want to try. Here TT> are the mikes I have to work with: TT> **************** TT> Shure Beta 58 TT> Sennheiser MD421 TT> AKG C1000S TT> AKG C391B "Blue Line" Ok From general opinion, the most widely used microphone worldwide would be the Shure SM 58. That would be MY choice. They have excellent reproduction of the treble frequencies, while also giving you very defined bass. TT> Also, I'm probably going to pick up a pop-filter. I've never really TT> used one very much. How effective is it? Does it eliminate all pops? TT> or just suppress some of them? No they don't eliminate them totally. You still have to watch the "p's" and "b's". I've been recording a narrated seminar recently, and found that pop filters DID eliminate SOME of the problems, but certainly not all. One of the singles from Nirvana unplugged starts with Kurt Cobain saying "We 'P'assed along...." and even there, he has trouble witht the P. It's quite obvious. You just have to aim away from the microphone, but you get used to it eventually. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11 --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0457 * Origin: InfoComm BBS * +64-6-354-0245 * 3 Lines * 28.8k V.34* (3:771/580) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCJ00002 Date: 08/14/95 From: RAY WILSON Time: 12:45pm \/To: JEFF OLSON (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: This echo Jeff Olson wrote in a message to Ray Wilson: JO> I'll be one of the first to say, "Congratulations" Thanks.... I think. ;) JO> BTW, If you can give me a straight answer without JO> getting in trouble as to why Mark left.. I really don't know the answer to that. JO> Why is everyone leaving? Legal B.S. It seems as though everyone is threatening to sue everyone else. It also seems as though some nets have gotten quite "political". Take a peek in Z1_Backbone. Best Regards, Ray --- timEd-B9 * Origin: The Recovery Room * Akron Ohio's 12 Step BBS (1:2215/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCJ00003 Date: 08/14/95 From: RAY WILSON Time: 12:48pm \/To: JON ROSE (Read 4 times) Subj: This echo Jon Rose wrote in a message to Ray Wilson: JR> Lurk mode still on... I suspect we'll see a drop-off in traffic. I really don't know how much mail was actually gated from other nets. Best Regards, Ray --- timEd-B9 * Origin: The Recovery Room * Akron Ohio's 12 Step BBS (1:2215/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCK00000 Date: 08/13/95 From: TONY TANG Time: 01:22pm \/To: BILL MILLER (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Digital 8 track recor BM> Things seems to be settling down, so I'm ready to jump into digital. BM> I'm prepared to buy a digital 8-track recorder yesterday, but I can't BM> decide between the TASCAM DA-88 and the Alessis ADAT. I do professional I think this question rates up there with 'What's the meaning of life?' :) But ever since the beginning I've been using the ADATs in my studio. I've definitely gone through some interesting moments with them during the past .5 years. I can only tell you about the DA88s from second-hand experience, magazine reviews, etc. The Alesis ADAT uses the SVHS format and runs at about 3x's normal video speed. Therefore, you get 40 minutes out of a 120 minute tape. The maximum time you'll get on one tape is 60 minutes if you use a T-180 tape. Because f the faster tape speed, it takes a longer time to fast forward and rewind. If you have the patience, then it shouldn't bother you that much. The DA88s use Hi8 tapes and give you about 108 minutes of recording time on a T120 tape. This is useful for extended live recording or scoring films (longer than 60 mins.). The DA88's tape speed is slower than the ADAT's, so the rewind/forward time is less. There's also a shuttle/job wheel on the remote controller for the DA88s -- not found on the ADATs. This may be useful for locating points on the tape. There's one thing about the DA88s that may shy some people away... it uses 4 stereo tape heads, similar to those found on TASCAM's DA-30 DAT machine, to record 8-channels of audio. This means that every time you record something on track 2, the information on track one is being read and re-written to the tape. You can see that there's potential or data loss here, but I haven't heard of any tragedies *yet*. Another useful feature of the DA88 is the recording frequency selector button -- 44.1kHz or 48kHz. The ADATs normally record at 48kHz, but you can vary it from about 39kHz to 50kHz -- it's almost impossible to know what frequency you're at in --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/25 (08-11-95 17: * Origin: The Contrails BBS Dallas/Ft.Worth, TX 817-571-3424 (1:130/83) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCK00001 Date: 08/15/95 From: TONY TANG Time: 01:38pm \/To: RICHARD GREANEY (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Surround sound RG> *L* Front *R* RG> * * * * RG> + - - + RG> * * RG> * * RG> * * RG> ***Left*********Right*** RG> Rear RG> RG> Well this is the setup I use on my stereo to give me a "surround" RG> sound What type of encoding would give the ability to control four independent udio channels for surround sound? --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: [FIDONET] Morph BBS, Wilmette, IL, 708-251-2307 - (1:115/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 200 PRO AUDIO Ref: CCK00002 Date: 08/15/95 From: TONY TANG Time: 01:41pm \/To: RICHARD GREANEY (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: voice over mike RG> Ok From general opinion, the most widely used microphone worldwide would be RG> the Shure SM 58. That would be MY choice. They have excellent eproduction RG> of the treble frequencies, while also giving you very defined bass. Hmm. I would have to disagree with the 'defined bass.' The 58's start dropping out around 55-60 Hz. The results I've gotten were just plain muddy. Of course this was with a bass guitar. :) With male voices, they should be alright. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: [FIDONET] Morph BBS, Wilmette, IL, 708-251-2307 - (1:115/251)