--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00007 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 02:42pm \/To: BLAKE BOWERS (Read 0 times) Subj: Ethics & Police Work -> How is my premise incorrect? If a fundamental part of a cop's job is -> exert force on people, why do all cops have at least three weapons ha -> from MR> -> -> their belt while on duty? MR> - MR> and 2 out of the 3 are defensive weapons. BB> Which would you consider to be an offensive weapon? I missed the orinigal so . . . There is no such thing as a defensive weapon. A weapon is only useful when it is actively used. Defensive items are passive and are designed to defeat offensive weapons. E.g. riot shields, helmets and body armor. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00008 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 02:46pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 0 times) Subj: Police Weapons Mike, please ask your sysop what you need to do to read your msg offline. Something is wrong because the original/quoted part of the msg is always in the middle of your reply. Makes things a little hard to read. MM> Rich, Departmental policy frequently dictates ammo usage MM> based on their experts. Officers may or may not agree. MM> MYFavorite was 000 Buck with many .32 caliber projectiles MM> headed downrange. Then again situational usage might at MM> times siggested a staggered loading. We ALL Have our MM> favorites and our RW> So you put a shotgun in the car with 2/3 of the rounds RW> 00 buck (even though #4 buck is better IMO) and the RW> rest the new slugs. MM> reasons. The goal is to be effective. 000 Buck is just too big. You can't get enough pellets into a shell (because of their size and the wasted space between them) to have an effective pattern at any range. They used to make a round that was a mix of #4 Buck with two or three 00 or 000 Buck. It was supposed to give you the pattern density of the #4 but still give you some long range ability. I don't think it flew very well. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00009 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 03:03pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 0 times) Subj: Radio Traffic MM> from other agencies. Unless you are REAL TIGHT with one who MM> is involved you might only suspect their availability. As a Have you ever heard of a freq hunter or freq hound? They are people who's hobby and passion in life is to find police freqs that aren't yet known. MM> matter of personal policy and integrity, IF I ever had these MM> freq numbers I would never have given them out and long go I MM> destroyed any mdocs containing said freqs. As a matter of And there are plenty of people who once they get this data spread it around. Back in the days of having 100+ BBS in every town you could always find one with a file containing them. Now days with the Inet the odds are you could just do a web search and find plenty of sites with the freqs. MM> info, to all, there are only certain freq ranges available MM> and new ways to maintain confidentiality are developed MM> constantly. PL tones are like riocks and new ranges brought MM> in when needed. You can't win this.K Remember when trunking first came out? It was sold as the be all and end all. It was going to allow cities to handle all the radio traffic they would ever have and do it on a few freqs. It was also going to make it impossible for the scanners to follow the traffic because it used a different freq every time the officer keyed up. Remember when scrambling came out? It was sold as the be all to end all, the police could have a completely secure comm system. Then there are the PL tones and the like. This is just like hacker-computer security and the virus makers-antivirus makers and the robber-cop contest. When ever the good guys come up with the 'perfect' system the bad guys are going to find some way around it. It is just a matter of time and money until someone will develop some way to defeat it. Technology is a double sword. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00010 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 03:19pm \/To: MARK RACIBORSKI (Read 0 times) Subj: LEGALITY OF COMMANDEERING -> Really, it takes a lot less braking then most people -> think to damage a rotor. You know how fast you can -> heat up something and how slow it takes to cool down. -> Going from 70 mph to 40 mph quickly a couple of times -> would have them close to smoking. MR> - MR> You've got some pretty crappy brakes if they smoke from MR> 70-40. I've come down from 90-0 in the Vette and not had a The Vett is also a high performance car. It probably has a little heavier duty braking system than my mini van or VW. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00011 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 03:34pm \/To: MARK RACIBORSKI (Read 0 times) Subj: Replacing Police Cars -> My POSSIBLE plan, I don't know if it would work, would -> require more money to be spent up front but over all -> the cost would be lower. -> -> Once you have gotten the new cars and the first run of -> parts the cost of the PM would be less than the "drive -> 'em till they die" system of a lot of cities. -> -> Remember: Freedom isn't Free! MR> - MR> My idea of the low rider truck fleet is a good one if you MR> could get the city to appove the purches of the truck and MR> the parts. and of course a place to have the converions A little off topic but since it is about an auto accident maybe not. Back about 9 years ago I worked with a guy (Randy something) who had a low rider. It was something. He had done just about every thing to get it as low as possible. He also had removed the top of the cab and replaced it with a removable hard top, changed the tail gate latch and hinges so it swung from the side rather than the top and had a stereo system that would shake the glasses off your face. He told me a story about him and his truck. One night after work he went to a party at friends apartment. The guy had told Randy that there were some speed bumps but not to worry because he went over them and his truck was even lower than Randy's (I don't see how that was possible but. . .). Randy got to the party w/o a problem but when he left the party around midnight he got lost. And if you haven't guessed yet he found a speed bump that was just a little bit taller than his truck's clearance. Can you say "high centered"? Now here he is lost in a apartment complex stuck on a speed bump and its after midnight. He was just about to start walking when a car came along. Luckily for him the driver was a nice guy and gave him a lift to his friends apartment. Once there several of guys rode over and lifted the truck enough so Randy could back off of it. Now the good part. About a week after he told me this story he went out and bought something (I didn't care so I don't remember what he said) so he could get the truck LOWER. MR> bed to be used for prisner transport. This truck would be MR> alot more stable than a SUV. ANd handle alot more like a And when you got three big drunks in it the frame would drag the pavement. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00012 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 03:49pm \/To: MARK RACIBORSKI (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: ALI RELASED -> Uzis have a cyclic rate 600rds/min -> MR> The Mini-Uzi has a cycle rate of 1200-1228RPM at 87 degrees Which with a 30 rd mag gives you 1.5 seconds of fire. Of which the first three might be near the target. MR> NEOSTEAD, it is a shotgun that fires in semi automatic, MR> holding 12 rounds in 2 over head tubes running parrellel to If I remember correctly the Neostead is(was) chambered for a two inch (2") shotgun shell. The American standards are 2 3/4" and 3". Using a nonstandard round is probably the biggest reason it never caught on. Of course you can find 2" shotgun shells. They will allow you to load more rounds into any American repeating shotgun than normal. I don't know about the safety of firing them though. Also can't you select to load from one tube or the other or from each tube alternately? This would allow you to load buckshot in one tube and slugs in the other and select which ever was needed. An interesting weapon but it had some problems that made it impractical (not the least of which was the upheaval in S.A.). Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00013 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 04:02pm \/To: MARK RACIBORSKI (Read 0 times) Subj: Police Cars MR> Well up coming is the Caddie SUV, The BMW SUV, the Poreche MR> SUV, and Dodge has a new muscle car coming out for 2001/2002 MR> to compete with the Mustang since by then the MR> Camaro/Firebird will have ceased production. I heard that Benz is coming out with a SUV and Ford is bring the T-bird back as a true sports coup. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00014 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 04:14pm \/To: BOB RUDOLPH (Read 0 times) Subj: WEAPONS RW> It would probably take an engineer familiar with the RW> weapon about 30 minutes to change a semi-auto to a RW> selective fire weapon. BR> I know lots of ways to do this, but most aren't engineered BR> by any means, and all they do is turn a good weapon into a BR> noisy, dangerous, and almost useless doorstop/paperweight. Not all of them. One of my hobbies is collecting firearms books and I have a couple on weapons conversion that are very well written and the conversion is a good engineering job. The even have mechanical drawings for any part that needs to be altered or made. The best, i.e. most interesting, is on how to convert the Remington 1100 to a selective fire shotgun. Why in the world would you want a full auto tubular mag shotgun? Unless you did the desperation reload it would take longer to reload than to fire. But this is about ideas people THOUGHT were good at the time. RW> The only reason that some one uses three round burst is RW> the fact that they either don't trust their ability to RW> hit the target in a vital area or don't trust the round BR> In principal, I agree - when you can control your tools. I thought most spec ops units had a lot more flexibility to choose their weapons than most. Why else do the use the MP5 when there are several other weapons that will do the same thing (9mm selective fire) a lot cheaper. BR> When they're issued, you use them. Folks around here get BR> into LOTS of trouble for using certain weapons as backups. I have been told that some departments forbid officers from carrying back up weapons. BR> In DC they eveh get crap for using handloads. Are you talking about department reloads or personal reloads? I can see why a dept wouldn't want to allow an officer to use his own home brew. Blown weapons, cracked frames and slides, and the like pop to mind but the biggest would be civil lawyers. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00015 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 04:28pm \/To: RICH GRIEBEL (Read 0 times) Subj: Commandeering RG> Actually the hardest part would be our uniform. Since we're RG> not Troopers, we get a "special" uniform that only one RG> manufacturer can make and isn't found anywhere else. You'd RG> figure they'd buy something off the rack, so to speak, but RG> no, we have to have a short sleeve shirt, special made to RG> the tune of $44 a hit, long sleeve at $64 a hit. At least RG> the pants are only $19 off the rack wash and wear slacks. And do you think the average person on the street could tell if I was wearing your $44 shirt on one that looked really close? Most people when they see a cop, even if they know what to look for, don't really see the uniform. -> Well how many did he finally find? RG> One, in 1972. RG> Thats why I've stayed out of the commandeering chatter, RG> very, very, rarely happens, so all the talk about who's RG> liable for what is a semi mute issue. Sure keeps the echo volume up though doesn't it? Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5I00016 Date: 05/12/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 04:34pm \/To: RICH GRIEBEL (Read 0 times) Subj: Legality of Commandeering -> One thing I found strange is the fact that steel tanks -> have a lower operating pressure than aluminum tanks. -> Less than half if memory serves me, 1180 psi for steel -> and 3000 psi. I haven't seen a steel tank in years so -> that number maybe wrong. RG> Essentially the same way the high pressure cylinders are RG> tested. And aluminum tanks are only good for certain gases RG> or gas combinations that react with a steel or lined steel They only thing I know for sure they are used for are compressed clean air. They might be used for NITROX but I have never dived with it so I can't say for sure. RG> tank. Haven't seen any real aluminum high pressure RG> cylinders though... Look at any SCUBA diver. He will have an AL tank with 3000 psi strapped on his back. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1)