--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00030 Date: 05/11/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 07:03pm \/To: DAVE SMITH (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: White Collar Crimes Quoting Dave Smith from a message to Ryan Bagueros DS> If you asked my neighbours if the police should go after white collar DS> criminals or after violent criminals, I can guarantee that they would DS> place the violent criminals higher in priority. People consider white DS> collar crime to be relatively victimless, not entirely. Some see it DS> as a crime against nonentities rather than crime against individuals. Again, we are not talking about violent crimes vs. non-violent crimes. There are plenty of victimless crimes that mostly affect the lower classes: drugs, prostitution, etc. DS> I don't think he said that crimes committed by the poor are more DS> violent or that his argument rests on that. No, but that is what you said. (quoted above) So, a construction company who has something worked out with the city to overprice them, giving a kickback to their contact at the city department and keeping a nice chunk for themselves, straight out of the taxpayer's pockets, DOESN'T hurt the public. But someone who sells marijuana out of their house to a circle of 10 or 20 friends IS hurting the public. The argument doesn't wash. The police are supposed to enforce ALL the laws in an objective manner. But for some reason, there is a disproportionate amount of minorities and lower class people in prison. You keep grasping at straws trying to explain WHY - Tom says its because they are stupid, you say its because all the crimes they are arrested for are violent, you both say that its just because they are naturally more criminal. But unless you've got a really good case to back that up with - and you obviously don't - the initial assumptions are racist and classist, and reveal the only true rationalization for such realities. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00031 Date: 05/11/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 07:10pm \/To: DON BOX (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: COP BASHING Quoting Don Box from a message to Ryan Bagueros DB> That's all it takes for an average worker to lose their job, home, DB> probably wife and family, and even tick-off the dog. Thirty days, for DB> an original offense which wasn't even a crime. Traffic tickets used DB> to be considered misdemeanors but they were decriminalized because DB> criminals have rights and all kinds of ways to fight back, whereas if Yes, excellent point. First I must commend you on the excellent subversion of the ticket system - which is quite obviously a money-making scheme. But, yes, this is what I mean when I say that the system is classist ... you take two people, one who makes $100,000/yr and one who makes $10,000/yr, and give them both a minor drug charge - 30 days in jail and/or $100/fine. In fact, let them have been caught in a car. So they each lose their license, get the fine, and get 10 days in jail. The rich guy pays the $100 out of pocket, drives his wife's Lexus and hopes he doesn't get caught, and serve the 10 days without any problem. Or maybe they get a "prominent member of the community" thing and end up not spending any time in jail. Then you take the other person, who will probably lose their job, can't find another one very easily without their car, which is now impounded and they can't afford to get it out. And on top of that, they've spent the night in jail because they couldn't afford bail and they can't even afford the $100 fine. So now this person is really messed up and essentially they life has completely crumbled and they have to start all over again. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00032 Date: 05/11/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 07:18pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Undercover Cops Quoting Tom Rightmer from a message to Ryan Bagueros TR> been smoking something. Only the criminal element would have a need TR> or a desire to easily identify undercover cops. This, of course, TR> could put them in extreme danger, but you wouldn't care about that, TR> would you? This message just causes more doubt in my mind about who TR> you really are and what you represe Well allow me to educate you a little. The Columbus Police Department has an intelligence bureau. Does your department? Here are some of the things the undercover cops in Columbus have worked on via the intelligence bureau: - in the late 60's, early 70's, they illegally wiretapped the local NAACP and Urban League. In later testimony, officers admitted that they weren't looking for anything "truthful." - a report the bureau made in 84-85 on youth street gangs was later discredited as being filled with lies and exaggerations. Officers who were subpeoned testified that they supervisors requested this to justify their budget and make the program look good. - the bureau spied on non-violent abortion protesters in the late 80's, many of them homemakers - two undercovers monitored a protest on the Chinese government's treatment of student rebels in the late 80's - in 1989, formal charges against the bureau brought by members of city council accused them of spying on "elected officials, black leaders, student leaders and community activists." This information is courtesy of the Columbus Dispatch, December 14, 1996. So quite a few people besides the 'common criminal' has need to be aware of undercover activity. Oh, but wait, this kind of thing doesn't happen in Tom Rightmer's World... --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00033 Date: 05/11/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 07:26pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Cop Bashing Quoting Tom Rightmer from a message to Ryan Bagueros TR> demonization and glorification, which tag would you use. You've TR> already said that demonizing them is wrong, so what should our TR> thoughts about criminals be? Please pick a tag, old wise one. Realism. Like the post I put up quoting PRISON ABOLITION, what you see are four fearless cops chasing down the incorrigible, dirty, scummy villain who is endangering people's lives. What you don't see is that kid being dehumanized in juvenile by stupid racist prison guards, only to be forever looked down upon by supposed forgiving, understanding Christians like you when they get out, scarred, hardened, unemployable, etc. Possibly a victim of rape or a hate crime while in prison. TR> will have fun with what I am about to say, so have your fun. There TR> are a large number of ministers in my family, and the rest of my TR> family are strong Christians. From your previous messages, I would TR> negative from your perspective. From my perspective, I would consider TR> my family as decent Christian people who try to obey the law. Ryan, Again, I must illustrate the hypocrisy involved with a Christian who endorses strict retribution for criminal acts. Did Jesus walk amongst the thieves and homeless and prostitutes and treat them as his brother/sister? YES. Did Jesus sit in his suburban Christian home, smugly thinking about how law-abiding he was and how scummy all those bums in prison are? NO. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00034 Date: 05/11/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 07:28pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Corporate Crime Quoting Tom Rightmer from a message to Ryan Bagueros TR> cost a ton of money. You forgot about all the lawyers, cpa's, TR> accountants, additional equipment, additional manpower, additional TR> prisons, additional prison staff, and other costly items that would TR> be needed to put corporate crime out of business. One nasty little I see. So in other words, you are saying that cops have to target the poor because it is too expensive to prosecute the rich? So in other words, the rich are above the law, because the cops just can't afford it? And yet the FOP lobbies for billions of dollars to fight the drug war. Interesting. Now how again are you going to say this isn't classist?! --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00035 Date: 05/11/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 07:30pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: CCW Quoting Tom Rightmer from a message to Rich Willbanks TR> Get real, the prison system is a revolving door, and many have proven TR> that they are career criminals over and over again. They don't TR> release criminals from prison because they no longer represent a TR> threat to society. They release them because of prison over-crowding, TR> prison caps, and sentences served. This has nothing to do with TR> whether they still represent a threat to society of not. You and I So what you are saying is that if someone commits a crime, serves their time in jail/prison as payback to the community, and is then released ... they are STILL a criminal and should STILL have restrictions upon them as such? Not to mention that de facto stigma in trying to get a job, etc. For a cop, you have some really distorted ideas about the Constitution. Surprise surprise. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00036 Date: 05/11/98 From: GUY DISTAFFEN Time: 02:25pm \/To: MARK RACIBORSKI (Read 0 times) Subj: Thank You! On 05-10-98 Mark Raciborski wrote to Lawanda Taylor... -> you do, you do for us... behind every badge is a heart! Keep up -> good work and above all... stay safe! -> For those of you who aren't aware... May 10-16 is National Law -> Enforcement week! My family and I would like to take this opportunit -> to "Thank" each and every one of you for a job well done! You may no -> think you make a difference, but you do! And you must continue to -> believe in what you're doing because many of us know that everything -> you do, you do for us... behind every badge is a heart! Keep up the -> good work and above all... stay safe!- MR> Well not behing EVERY badge. ANd under most hats is a arrogant little MR> pea brain. Boy, I bet the police must love you in your neighborhood. Do you treat everyone this way? My personal experience with the police has allowed me to have a lot of gratitude for their services and a lot of respect for the work and effort they put out. I, also, highly respect them for the crap they have to put up with from some people. Guy ___ * OFFLINE 1.58 * Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Shack TOO * Mike Ward - Sysop * (716)288-5848 (1:2613/150) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00037 Date: 05/12/98 From: RD THOMPSON Time: 05:28pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: ALI RELASED Hi Charles, as you were just saying about Re: ALI RELASED.... CH> RW> MR> min. Uzis are like 900. These are just rough guess from CH> RW> CH> RW> I think you are close here. I have never dealt with CH> RW> one so I'm not sure. CH> CH> RT>Uzis have a cyclic rate 600rds/min CH> CH> Oops. Excuse me. I thought I was in the askacop echo........not CH> firearms. You are correct. To bring it on-topic, we are trying to let the officers know what they are up against. :^) RD sandman@azstarnet.com http://www.azstarnet.com/~sandman A well-educated Congress being necessary for the governing of a free state, the right of the people to read and write books shall not be infringed. ___ X KWQ/2 1.2i X Pain.....your body's way of saying "Hey, don't do that!" --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: DPSystem:4285 OS2-WARPED 520-290-8418 USR V.e+ (1:300/105) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00038 Date: 05/12/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 10:21pm \/To: RICH GRIEBEL (Read 0 times) Subj: Replacing Police Cars RG> I've got a connection at Chevrolet, I'll give them a shout and see RG> whats up. Last I heard, GM wasn't in the restoration business. It'd be RG> interesting to see what all they would do to restore the car to "new" RG> condition. Thanks, I think that many officers in the echo might be interested in this, as all departments fight money problems and getting equipment replaced. If this was a first class restoration that made the car completely safe, I think it would be logical and cost effective. Thanks. Tom ... DANGER DANGER Computer store ahead...hide wallet. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5H00039 Date: 05/12/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 10:21pm \/To: RD THOMPSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Cop Killer Bullets RT> The Black Rhinos were supposed to have RT> titanium bullets coated with teflon to penetrate ballistic vests. It RT> turned out to be a complete hoax. The person who 'designed and RT> manufactured' the bullets was an anti-gunner who got caught with his RT> pants down. He was asked to demonstrate his claims (I saw brief RT> coverage of this on CNN a couple of years back) and his house of cards RT> came tumbling down when he could not show it was a manufacturable RT> bullet. The reason there was no test on the bullets to assuage the RT> police is that bullets of this type to be manufactured did not exist. RT> How can one prove a negative? I remember the discussions that we had in FOP meetings about this subject. At that time, we lacked any information to the contrary from the NRA. We looked at the available information which did not include any disclaimer from the NRA. If the NRA had simply said this is a hoax, there is no so-called cop-killer bullet, and we would not fight for a round like this, the cops would have thought differently about the matter. The news I read from the NRA indicated they would fight a ban on any ammunition, regardless of what it would do or not do. In the absence of opposing arguments, you can imagine the thoughts of most cops, hype or not. Many cops had a final thought of, "If the NRA supports the distribution of ammunition which appeared to have no value except to kill cops, we would not support that stance and cancel our membership." Regardless of hype or not, the NRA made a serious error in advertising their disregard for the lives and concerns of many law enforcement members. A powerful and huge NRA organization fought a battle to make a non-existent bullet legal if this is actually what happened. Regardless, their stance indicated a lack of regard for the lives of many of their members whether the bullet existed or not. This stance would be unacceptable to many police officers for obvious reasons. If I bought the hype, I guess the NRA did too, as they expended tremendous resourses to keep a so-called cop killer bullet legal. Regardless, there is a serious problem with this picture for those who put their lives on the line every day. My two cents worth. Tom ... It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere! --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20)