--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00831 Date: 04/29/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 02:30pm \/To: GUY DISTAFFEN (Read 0 times) Subj: Gang Turf GD> If the gang members are loitering on a street corner and GD> selling drugs out in the open, then call the police. The GD> police can take all the information over the phone, and GD> they won't do anything to you. GD> The gang members won't know that it was you, who called the GD> police, either. There is no danger from the gang members, GD> when you remain anonymous. Don't bet on it. I have never checked but I'm willing to bet that the phone records of the police and 911 are public records covered by the FOIA. If so all the gang would have to do is spend $10 or so to get a copy and check the address (which pop up automatically in most police and all E-911 phone systems) of the callers and see which one if any are from "their" turf. Would be fairly cheap insurance for them. AFAIK, the only way around this is to use a cell phone. As of now, but soon to change, 911 systems can't give the address of cell phones. The bad guys would have to do a reverse search on each phone number to find the address. Of course with a computer that takes about 2 seconds. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00832 Date: 04/29/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 02:41pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 0 times) Subj: Let's Cut the Bull RB> So, let's set it straight for once and for all. Let's get RB> the FACTS straight, because from my point of view, most of RB> you are less interested in the facts here, and just RB> disregard what I am saying as a lie or fabrication. The facts aren't (by me) in question for the most part. Its the conclusions you draw from the facts. Here's a fact and a conclusion. FACT: Ice cream sales increase when the mean outside temperature goes up. CONCLUSION: Higher ice cream sales cause higher mean outside temperatures. Now the fact is correct, it can be proven by looking at the amount of ice cream sold per day or month and the mean temperature of that day or month. But the conclusion is wrong. RB> Contention: Law enforcement in the United States is RB> institutionally corrupt, aimed primarily against RB> minorities, the lower classes and political dissidents. This is a conclusion which I will argue is not supported buy the facts you site. RB> (1) In nearly every aspect of law enforcement, minorities RB> and the poor are disproportionately affected. Black men are Only if you look at "low" or non-white collar crime. Over 70% of the people arrested and/or convicted of embezzlement, insider trading, etc. are white. Using your conclusion law enforcement in relation to white collar crime is racist because there are very few blacks arrested for it. RB> incarcerated at a rate 8 times that of white men, even RB> though they are clearly a minority in the general Which has nothing to do with law enforcement. Incarceration is out of the hands of the cops, its up to the judge or jury. If two people are arrested for and found guilty of the same crime one could be locked up and the other given "community service". The arresting officer has very little, if any at all, say in this. RB> population. Blacks are 4 times as likely to be arrested for RB> drugs, even though whites use drugs at the same rate or But the proportion of drug DEALERS is different. It has been shown time and time again that most white middle class people don't buy their drugs from another white middle class person. When they do buy from a WMCP it is not done on a street corner "market" but usually in a car or house. RB> jailed at least once before the age of 35. Blacks are 10 RB> times more likely to be shot at by police than whites are. Because currently the majority of violent crime is committed in the "black" neighborhoods. In the past three months there have been about five multiple shootings in Nashville and in all five all the victims AND shooters have been black. AFAIK, of the 20+ people shot in Nashville none of them have been white. Is that the fault of the police? I don't want to get into what is the reason for it only the fact that the police are not to blame. RB> While this does not suggest that all cops are racists, it RB> shows that there is an institutionalized racism that RB> permeates the nation's police departments. [Sources: Report Here is another bad conclusion. What if I said that is shows that blacks are unable to control themselves or genically inclined to commit crimes? Then you would be screaming that I'm a racist but I could back up the statement with the same facts you are using to say that the law enforcement community is racist. RB> (2) The FBI, with co-operation of state and local police RB> departments, has operated an illegal program nicknamed RB> COINTELPRO, or Counter-Intelligence Division, or CID. The RB> target of this program has been primarily black social RB> activists conducting legal political dissent, but many other RB> groups of people have been targeted also. The scope of this Yes they have but as you point out they did not focus exclusively on blacks so your argument falls flat. For one thing they did the same thing to the KKK, the ANP which are in no way black organizations. The government/law enforcement also rounded up and locked away thousands of American citizens for no other reason than their ethnic background. But surprise these were not blacks but Asians in the 1940's. RB> (3) There is widespread dissatisfaction with police RB> activities in poor, ethnic neighborhoods. While the mass Is this because the police are arresting too many people or too few? Is the crime rate too high or too low? Are they dissatisfied with the fact that there are drug dealers on the street corner and they can not walk to and from the bus stop w/o being mugged once a month? RB> These are my three main arguments. Any one of them will RB> stand alone as proof of RB> widespread police corruption. I have presented the facts. I RB> can present more. The question is: can anyone else on this RB> echo? Again you HAVE presented the FACTS and they can't be argued (at least the numbers). The only thing is you are making bad assumptions and conclusions. As I stated above I could use theses facts to "prove" several conclusions. I could be say that they show that living in a poor neighborhood causes you to commit crimes. Or that blacks are more prone to crime. Or poor neighborhoods are so crime ridden that the police can not keep up. Or the more money you make the less prone to be a criminal you are. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00833 Date: 04/30/98 From: KENT ANDERSON Time: 06:32am \/To: CHRISTOPHER COYNE (Read 0 times) Subj: Peace In The Echo -=> Quoting Christopher Coyne to Tom Rightmer <=- TR> CH> I had a snake try to bite me once, (not calling Chris a Snake); and I TR> CH> forgave the snake.................. but I don't travel in his TR> CH> neighborhood because I'm sure he'll still try to strike again. I CC> Tom, please do something about Charles and his unwarremted CC> attack. For one, he really provoked ME to enter the flame war, not CC> the other way around. I have not flamed him since. Please do CC> something about him. This proves what I was talking about. CC> Peace. Christopher, Charles has been in my twit filter for over two years. Don't you have one? It'll make him disappear forever if he posts as Charles Hunter. Kent, --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: Rendezvous!! 8gigs_20000files_500echoareas 512-303-1324 (1:382/92) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00834 Date: 04/30/98 From: BOB RUDOLPH Time: 09:39am \/To: RICH WILLBANKS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: ALI RELASED RW> BR> Absent proper training they are hard to use well - but I RW> A full auto HANDGUN would be IMPOSSIBLE to use well. RW> If the weight was low enough to make it firable one RW> handed (hence the term HANDgun) the rate of fire would RW> be so high the recoil would make it uncontrollable. To RW> reduce the rate of fire the slide would have to be so RW> heavy to make it to heavy to carry. I've never used one, so I don't know. The Glock design seems to be easier to shoot well than my Dad's 1911 - something about barrel placement relative to hand location and torque moment about the axis of the barrel pivot point or attach point. ANYTHING can be learned - but whether it's worth it I can't say. RW> BR> seriously doubg they'd be built if there weren't a RW> BR> perceived need, in the form of a market. Around here, all RW> They were designed and produced at the request of the RW> pentagon. Like a lot of weapon designs it was thought RW> up by someone who didn't really know what he was doing. RW> It was thought that the special ops types could use it. RW> Needless to say NOBODY wanted it. The Swiss cops use it for something - Glock takes its orders other places than the Pentagon. Now Beretta might've done smething for the Pentagon since they got the military business, but I doubt Glock cares much what those domes nt. RW> BR> we have for on-duty is 17 and 19, with a few folks that have RW> BR> bought their own 26 (which I intend to do as soon as I run RW> BR> across the dougn without something breaking that costs a RW> I know that feeling. I've been trying to save up for a RW> nice stainless steel 4" double action 45 Long Colt RW> revolver. But so far it has turned into a new washer RW> and then into a new water heater then into an ER visit RW> now it has turned into a dental work for the wife and RW> daughter. Been there done all of that - new transmission in one car, new motherboard for one computer, laser printer because one daughter is ding lots of writing, another car because we have too many drivers - about 20 26's in just that.... --- AdeptXBBS v1.11z (FREEWare/2) * Origin: CopShop AdeptXBBS (1:261/3050) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00835 Date: 04/29/98 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 10:42pm \/To: MARK RACIBORSKI (Read 0 times) Subj: Let's Cut the Bull MR>Wow all that really? Perhaps if you showed the other side of the MR>statics they'd make since. If blacks are in jail 8 times more then MR>whites its because they are comiting 8 times more crimes, as for why MR>they are shot more often by police, Thats because they dont drop MR>their weapon when they are hopelessly surrounded but have this crazy MR>idea that becuase they may have killed a few people around their MR>neighboorhood with their little 9mm they can take on a whole police MR>forced armmed with .45s and shotguns. That is the most RACIST, IGNORANT...AND horribly spelt diatribe I've EVER seen. It is an example of bigotry at it's worst...and stupidity at it's best. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: ELLIOTT'S BBS ORANGEVALE, CA 916-988-0954 (1:203/721.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00836 Date: 04/29/98 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 10:42pm \/To: MARK RACIBORSKI (Read 0 times) Subj: Young Blacks MR>well if you wernt so blind with the idea of everyone hating blacks MR>you'd realize that the person that preys on them the most is them MR>selves. If YOU would look at WHY that is...you might get a clue. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: ELLIOTT'S BBS ORANGEVALE, CA 916-988-0954 (1:203/721.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00837 Date: 04/29/98 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 10:43pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 0 times) Subj: Let's Cut the Bull RB>Contention: Law enforcement in the United States is institutionally RB>corrupt, aimed primarily against minorities, the lower classes and RB>political dissidents. I agree with you. I'm here, I agree, and I will listen. Authoritarianism, blind obedience, and a near slave-master mentality is ripe in this echo. Not ALL of us are blind. And, I'd suspect that there are actually cops on here that don't believe in being racist. Perhaps a few of those actually aren't. I'm sorry to say that I am somewhat new..and haven't seen alot of your posts...because I was debating till I was blue in the face against the bigotry of the stealer's of cars (the commandeering thread). And it was a silly and but VERY telling thread about some peoples idea that people not being free is a good idea. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: ELLIOTT'S BBS ORANGEVALE, CA 916-988-0954 (1:203/721.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00838 Date: 04/29/98 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 10:43pm \/To: DON BOX (Read 0 times) Subj: POLICE BRUTALITY DB>Sometimes it deserves all the media hype. We just had two Ventura DB>County CHP's charged with all sorts of things... starting with DB>kidnapping, assualt under color of authority, etc etc. DB>Seems they took a dislike to the homeless around their beat and DB>focused on one particular individual relentlessly. They'd literally DB>"collect" him, drive him to God only knows where and drop him off in DB>the middle of nowhere. On occasion they'd even Mace him, apparently DB>for practise. This was numerous times... I mean like more times than DB>I can count on all my fingers. DB>In fairness, I don't have all the particulars but the media played DB>it, big time, for a couple of days. They're now in the process of DB>being fired and DA's looking at mulitple charges. Other than that, DB>that's all I know. DB>Never thought CHP would allow even one of those in their ranks, much DB>less two. Hey, after Rodney King...and even the Fed cop things of Ruby Ridge and Waco..the obvious is seen. Hey, even the TV show "Cops" shows the dogs being sicked on hand cuffed people...so they can get a taste. It's scary. What's scarier is that some people can actually say it's not a problem. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: ELLIOTT'S BBS ORANGEVALE, CA 916-988-0954 (1:203/721.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00839 Date: 04/29/98 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 10:48pm \/To: GUY DISTAFFEN (Read 0 times) Subj: Legality of Commandeerin GD>It is impossible to follow a car, on foot. Unless you are in L.A. traffic during rush hour. THINK FIRST, answer later. :-P --- CMPQwk #1.42 * Origin: Cyber Bytes BBS * Antelope, Ca * (916) 334-1449 (1:203/127) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00840 Date: 04/30/98 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 12:33pm \/To: RD THOMPSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Legality of Commandeerin RT>Hi Steve, as you were just saying about Legality of Commandeering.... RT>SK> CH>The constitution (the source of your rights) does NOT RT>SK> CH>guarantee that your property will not be seized or RT>SK> CH>commandeered. It ONLY guarantees that your property will NOT RT>SK> be taken without just compensation. RT>SK> Please post that part in it's entirety. I'd sure like to see RT>SK> it...considering it doesn't exist. RT>Try the Just Compensation clause of the Fifth Amendment: RT>".....nor shall private property be taken for public use without just RT>compensation." But then, a cop taking a car isn't taking it for public use. This clause has to do with eminent domain (you know, a freeway being built through your property or such), not commandeering of vehicles. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* UNREGISTERED HANDGUN COPY --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: ELLIOTT'S BBS ORANGEVALE, CA 916-988-0954 (1:203/721.0)