--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00621 Date: 04/17/98 From: BOB RUDOLPH Time: 09:51am \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: choices in amerikka RB> So, a rich kid has the choice between his father paying for four years at RB> Duke RB> or his father paying for four years at Stanford. A poor kid has the RB> choice RB> between working a crappy job for 40 hours a week and working 40 hours a RB> week RB> and going to school at the same time, putting himself into debt. Is this RB> what RB> you mean by "different parameters"? Uhhh - you're ignoring MOST kids, who are middle class. I paid for every minute of scholing that I had (less, incidentally, thn you had probably) and I appreciated it because I had to go out and get it for myself. NOBODY is guaranteed a free ride (which appears to be what you want) - but some are lucky enough to have been born into more than others. If you WANT it, you can go out and GET it. I finished a 2 year degree when I was 37 - and am not the least bit angry at 'society' or 'racism' or 'classism' for having been born without the name 'Steve Forbes.' RB> As for me being a victim, no, I'm not. Why? Because instead of letting RB> these RB> forces degrade me as a human being, I've decided to FIGHT BACK against RB> them, RB> not try to work around them, not compromise my principles for them, not RB> try to RB> apologize for them (in other words, all the things YOU do). Most of your rant sounds like victim to me - decrying the fact that when you violate a law you get arrested, decrying the fact that folks expect you to work in order to get paid, decrying the fact that you can't deterime what everyone else gets to do with what is his because you don't like it. Shit, my 15 year old has a better handle on life and how to succeed than you do! --- AdeptXBBS v1.11z (FREEWare/2) * Origin: CopShop AdeptXBBS (1:261/3050) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00622 Date: 04/17/98 From: ALAN RACKMILL Time: 03:44pm \/To: BARBARA MCNAY (Read 0 times) Subj: Legality of Commandeering cars Barbara McNay wrote in a message to Tom Rightmer: > There are many times that high speed and all the stuff > you see in the movies > is not necessary. Chances are, the police officer > might even ask you to drive > and have you stop the car well out of danger. A > portion of this discussion > seems to indicate that police officers have no > compassion or understanding > for people with disabilities, and that would be > incorrect. I might not even BM> Something that needs to be said is that the great majority BM> of people are either helpful or neutral. However, there are BM> times when people's attempts at being helpful can be a BM> serious hazard to my safety. Take, for example, those doors BM> in commercial establishments which swing open when you push, BM> then are closed by a pneumatic closer. Ever become familiar BM> with one with a strong resistance to being pushed, then BM> almost fall to the floor one day when it had been adjusted BM> to much less resistance, unknown to you? Or yanked open, if BM> it's a solid restroom door, by somebody who just happened to BM> be leaving? If the distance is quite short and there are no BM> obstacles to my doing so, I often go into a place with my BM> cane. Often, people will see me coming, and hold the door BM> for me, which is all right. Negotiating such doors becomes BM> hazardous when people rush up behind me and push the door BM> open at the very moment when I am expecting, and *depending BM> upon* its resistance. People who rush up from the other BM> side and yank the door open at the critical moment present BM> the same hazard. I simply haven't the agility that most BM> people have to recover from the sudden loss of support. BM> There are other hazardous situations, but I think this BM> suffices to show that in spite of people's best intentions, BM> we with disabilities have to look out for ourselves. And that doesn't take into account those who will knock you over in their attempt to get in front of youso that they CAN hold the door open for you. Talk about the cure being worse than the disease. ;-)) Alan Team OS/2, Fidonet 1:107/101, ibmNET 40:4371/101, OS2NET 80:135/15 internet: alanrackmill@mindspring.com --- timEd/2 1.01 * Origin: The Maven's Roost * MAX/2 * WARP * v.34 1-908-821-4533 1:107/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00623 Date: 04/17/98 From: ALAN RACKMILL Time: 03:51pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 0 times) Subj: Legality of Commandeering Charles Hunter wrote in a message to Alan Rackmill: CH> Subject: Legality of Commandeering cars CH> AR>It thecop who wants to comandeer my car wants me top move any faster than >that, he is going to have to physically pull me from the car. >And I don't carte if he is chasing Attilla the Hun, that will bring about >nice law suit, and you know as well as I do that I would win. >Or Barbara. Or whoever it is done to. CH> Why is it that you assume that the officer would be that CH> insensitive to your situation? I don't assume that. I am merely going by the tone of the responses by some that the cop has the absolute right to comandeer your car regardless of any "extenuating" circumstances. Those responses did not take intoaccount any physical disabilities that the driver/owner of the car had, and sort of implied that they would be irrelevant in any case. Alan Team OS/2, Fidonet 1:107/101, ibmNET 40:4371/101, OS2NET 80:135/15 internet: alanrackmill@mindspring.com --- timEd/2 1.01 * Origin: The Maven's Roost * MAX/2 * WARP * v.34 1-908-821-4533 1:107/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00624 Date: 04/16/98 From: DAVE SMITH Time: 04:50pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: racism in amerikkka -=> Quoting Ryan Bagueros to Dave Smith <=- DS> Well Ryan, perhaps you can educate us all on racism and explain how DS> it is that all cops are racist. Your example always seems to involve DS> a white cop and a black male "victim". I am curious how a non racist RB> The point is not that all cops are racist. The point is that the RB> criminal justice system is institutionally racist. The noise coming from you certainly makes it sound like all cops are racist. From where I sit, it often seems like a lot of non whites have a serious disrespect for the law and law enforcement. Of course, a lot of whites share that disrespect. How about all the non white victims out there? What sort of racism do they have to deal with when they are victimized by their own kind? Some of the more broad minded representatives of various ethnic communities I have heard have tried to deal with the fact that their own communities are the primary victims of the crime. DS> FWIW.....I have heard a lot of racist remarks in my life, but the DS> most overtly racist act I have seen in the last few years was by a DS> Mexican toward a Black. Perhaps your hypothetical examples should DS> involve Hispanic cops and black males . RB> So because you can come up with one example of a minority being racist RB> against another minority, the entire concept of racism is invalidated? RB> Please. I don't run into a lot of Mexicans around here, and this guy came along with some invited friends. I am quite willing to admit that it a single incident, but he was far more rude to my black friend than I have ever seen anyone short of the type of red necked Bubba we see portrayed in movies. RB> The fact is that we live in a society run by white males, for hundreds f RB> years it has been this way, and because Bill Cosby is on your tv does RB> not mean it has gone away. If I refer to a white cop harrassing a black RB> person, it is at the very least metaphoric, if not an everyday RB> occurrence in real life. There is some truth to the suggestion that *we* live in a society where white males have acted responsibly enough to run and maintain a society. I might add that they seem to have done a pretty good job of it. Most of the white males in power now worked their way up the ranks in the days when women stayed home and looked after the family. A lot of women are working their way up the ladder too. Lots of people of various ethnic backgrounds are working their way up. There are lots of societies today that are not run by white males. Perhaps you might feel more enfranchised in one of them. Personally, I doubt it. My son lives in Africa and a good friend of mine has spent most of his life travelling around the world and has just returned from two years in Asia and the Middle East. From what I hear from those two, and which only onfirms information from other sources, North America is one of the least racist societies in the world. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: The Hunting Field - Welland, Ont. (905)735-9081 (1:247/600.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00625 Date: 04/16/98 From: DAVE SMITH Time: 05:04pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE -=> Quoting Ryan Bagueros to Bob Rudolph <=- BR> fact that black on black crime is the greatest threat to the BR> longevity of black youth. RB> No, poverty is the greatest threat to the longevity of black youth. Actually, I read somewhere that gun shots were pretty high on the list. There is a bit of a self perpetuating problem there. Poverty is used by some low lifes as an excuse to turn to crime. Enough people have lifted themselves out poverty and become successful to knock holes in that one. How much of that poverty is directly or indirectly related to high crime rates? How do you expect people to get good jobs in an inner city neighborhood when the area is so dangerous that no one wants to start a business there? ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: The Hunting Field - Welland, Ont. (905)735-9081 (1:247/600.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00626 Date: 04/16/98 From: DAVE SMITH Time: 05:13pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 0 times) Subj: counter culture -=> Quoting Ryan Bagueros to Rd Thompson <=- RB> Ah, now you are catching on. What do you think I'm talking about? So RB> how do you fix a culture of poverty that has been getting worse and RB> worse over the past 100 years? All of the symptoms of that poverty are RB> becoming more and more worse RB> - race and wealth stratification, crime, juvenile delinquency, RB> incarceration rates, infrastructure decline, police brutality. So how RB> do you solve it? How do you give economic justice to people? Why are we RB> looking at yet ANOTHER EXAMPLE of the failure of the american dream? I would suggest that one way of ensuring that it will continue is to blame the upper strata for all the problems of the others and starting a counter culture to glamorize disdain for law and order. Some of the more honest and open minded people in some ethnic communities have pointed to the people within their own communities. I might suggest that white society could probably do quite well without blacks, and blacks could probably do quite well without whites. If minorities buy into the values of the wealthier elements of the more advantaged layers of society, they would stand a better chance of getting ahead. FWIW... I came across some stats on the relative standards of living of various ethnic groups in Canada, and white males do not lead the pack. Average incomes for Chinese, Japanese, Jews and East Indians were all higher than for whites. Apparently, there is much more than just racism at issue here. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: The Hunting Field - Welland, Ont. (905)735-9081 (1:247/600.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00627 Date: 04/17/98 From: CAROL SHENKENBERGER Time: 03:05pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Gang answer On the local radio today, was an incentive. Seems there is a place called 'Bakers Street' and a gang has formed about it. They call themselves the 'Bakers Street Gang' or something like that. City council is about to change the name of the street, to Pansy Street. Gotta love it! Doesnt really fix the problem, but at least the residents will get a break! xxcarol --- Telegard v3.09.b16 * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS Norfolk VA 757-486-3057 28.8 Dual (1:275/100) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00628 Date: 04/19/98 From: STEVEN KRUETZMANN Time: 04:20pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Help! I NEED HELP!!! I need to speak or email a police officer. It *HAS* to be off the record, between myself and him. I need to talk to him about a problem of mine, which is a problem of my brothers. If anyone out there is a police officer, please email me at steven-oliver.kruetzmann@ablelink.org. Thanks, Steve PS: I'm serious about this. I don't need any jokers, by any means at all..... ... A feature is a bug with seniority. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: The Horizon Bulletin Board 905-855-7934 (1:250/348) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00629 Date: 04/20/98 From: DAVE SMITH Time: 04:57pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE -=> Quoting Ryan Bagueros to Bob Rudolph <=- BR> No, it isn't - it's more as if a guy had the tools, and knew of the BR> jobs, and you agreed to work for him for a certain rate. CHOICES BR> again. YOU agreed to therate - if you think it isn't enough, that BR> isn't HIS fault, it's YOURS for agreeing to his terms. RB> Once again, you nitpicked my story instead of getting to the heart of RB> the issue. Because when you get to the heart of the issue, you realize RB> that what you are talking about is a bunch of guys doing work, with RB> one of them doing the I don't think he was nitpicking. Au contraire mon amie, his comments lie at the very heart of the issue. I think you were the one who missed the point. It may seem to you that the boss is a slacker, but there are obviously some issues that you seem to have overlooked, like the fact that he has something invested in the business which you don't, the tools and vehicles. The time that he spends on the phone while you are working is most likely spent lining up the next jobs so that you will have something to work at when you finish that one. Every manufacturing job has a variety of jobs. All of them are important, and just because the guys on the production line are the only people touching the product does not mean that the others are not providing an essential service to that production. From your stance on this, I would be inclined to suggest that you success in the working world, or lack thereof, is more a function of your lack of understanding in how to get ahead in the system. If you were willing to invest in the tools and vehicles and do the work to start a business and drum up customers, you'd soon be in a position to face the hassles of running a business and have envious employees running you down behind your back too. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: The Hunting Field - Welland, Ont. (905)735-9081 (1:247/600.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F5G00630 Date: 04/21/98 From: RD THOMPSON Time: 02:46pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Disorderly Conduct Hi Tom, as you were just saying about Re: Disorderly Conduct.... TR> I'm going to take this opportunity to pleasantly request that you TR> get many of your messages back on topic for this conference. This TR> message was on topic. Many of your messages belong in social TR> government class, not in a law enforcement echo. This echo is not TR> devoted to classism, racism, sexism, poverty, non-poverty, TR> communes, other forms of government, etc. This echo is devoted to TR> citizens asking law enforcement officers questions about the law TR> and law enforcement. Many of the resulting discussions are TR> perfectly on-topic. Many of your messages belong in an echo like TR> civil liberties. I find many of your messages quite interesting and TR> have enjoyed many of them, but many of them are off-topic TR> completely for this echo. As a result, I am requesting that you TR> keep your messages on-topic for this echo. Tom, I second that. I would love to see Ryan over on the CIVLIB echo. RD sandman@azstarnet.com http://www.azstarnet.com/~sandman A well-educated Congress being necessary for the governing of a free state, the right of the people to read and write books shall not be infringed. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: DPSystem:4285 OS2-WARPED 520-290-8418 USR V.e+ (1:300/105)