--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00029 Date: 04/08/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 07:56pm \/To: RICH WILLBANKS (Read 0 times) Subj: Zero Tolerance RW> I missed read the msg, actually I combined two msg by accident RW> and the second had a personal insult which I contributed to you. RW> I want to take this time to apologize, to say I'm sorry because RW> you have never been anything but a gentleman (even when you are RW> wrong ) during our debates. No apology necessary, I understand. Just to keep this message on topic, there seems to be a law that ruins just about everything. Peeping Toms No person shall trespass upon the property or premises of another with the intent to peer or peep into the window or door of the dwelling. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Windows would be better with curtains. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00030 Date: 04/08/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:53am \/To: RICH WILLBANKS (Read 0 times) Subj: Teenage Smoking CH> Not neccessarily. Possesion of the weapon without more does CH> not constitute a crime, unless of course it was determined RW>Having a firearm in the passenger compartment of a car >is a crime in several states. In some states a >misdemeanor in others I do believe it is a felony. You are missing the point. If by reason of a permit or law you are authorized to carry that weapon, it's not a violation of law. CH> to be stolen. Finding you in possession of a weapon, the CH> first thing that an officer has to do is determine whether CH> or not you have a permit or other justification to have RW>In some places (e.g.; D.C., Chicago) that isn't true. >The first thing he does is place you under arrest for >illegally carrying a weapon. The Constitution is suspended in D.C., Chicago? There are lot's of people in those jurisdictions who are authorized to have firearms under those circumstances. The officer STILL has to determine that there is probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed before he can make a valid arrest. CH> that weapon. He can do that by asking you if you have a CH> permit or by a simple records check. Probable cause, Rich. RW>PC is set by the fact that an illegal act has been >committed. How does he determine that an illegal act has been committed? Merely finding a weapon does not constitute probable cause in and of itself unless you are stupid enough to withold the information that you are authorized to possess/carry the weapon. There was a case in Pennsylvania that was a case in point. Officer stopped a vehicle, observed a firearm. Occupant did NOT have a permit for the weapon and when asked by the officer if he had a CCW permit he refused to answer invoking his fifth amendment right. The officer WITHOUT checking state records to determine if the man had a permit arrested him for a weapons violation and seized the weapon. The Supreme Court reversed the conviction on the basis that since the officer had not checked to see if the man had a permit; and since the defendant had remained silent as was his right, the officer had no probable cause. RW>Isn't the driver of the car responsible for what is in >the car? If you find two pounds of cocaine in the >trunk you usually arrest the driver. CH> Sometimes. Sometimes the owner of the vehicle depending on CH> the circumstances of the case. RW>In very few cases would the driver, assuming that he is >the only adult in the car, not be arrested. You are missing the point. Merely finding a weapon or drugs in a car in and of itself does not always constitute probable cause for arrest. A gun does not, when it is not determined that the person does not have a permit. A pound of cocaine does not when it is being transported by a person authorized by law to possess and transport same. Now, keep in mind that the threshold for probable cause does not require proof beyond a doubt but DOES require a reasonable belief that a crime has been committed and that the subject person committed it. RW>So you are saying that you have never seen a case where >the case never should have been prosecuted, for what >ever reason, just because the DA wanted to make >political points? Sure.......but that's the exception to the rule. RW>HUH? You have no problem with giving orders to shoot >someone even though he is posing no immediate threat? I don't have a problem with your viewpoint on that particular issue. CH> It went to federal court pursuant to federal statute. RW>The feds only got interested when the state decided to >take action. That is the part that should make you go >hum. . . There is a federal law that says anytime a federal officer is the subject of a prosecution for acts committed while performing his duty, that officer has the right to have the case removed to a federal court. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Doing my part to preserve order in the universe --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00031 Date: 04/08/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:54am \/To: RICH WILLBANKS (Read 0 times) Subj: zero tolerance RW>Yes, I'm paranoid but I have read a lot of history and >found that anytime a government starts hiding its >actions and restricting its people "for their own >protection" things tends to get nasty for those being >protected. I agree. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Dreams move on if you wait too long. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00032 Date: 04/08/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:57am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Disorderly Conduct TR>It's not just the yelling of "FIRE" in a crowded theatre that can get you in >trouble. I thought I would quote a typical ordinance that deals with matters Yes; but you can still yell "Movie" in a Firehouse. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Failure is never fatal and success is never final. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00033 Date: 04/08/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:58am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Disturbing Funerals TR>Here is yet another example of a limitation of free speech. TR>No person shall willfully disturb, interrupt or disquiet any assemblage of >people who have met for the purpose of any funeral, or obstruct or detain an >person engaged in accompanying any funeral to a place of burial. TR>Just something else I thought you might find interesting, just another >example of common sense. And, maybe the law recognizing the constitutional right of "freedom of Religion"? CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * For a big surprise, try pressing ALT+H right now. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00034 Date: 04/08/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:59am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Disturbing The Peace TR> 4. Lewdly exposing one's person, or private parts thereof, in an > public place or in any place where there are present other > persons to be offended or annoyed thereby; That one's been changed Tom. Presently the rule is "more than once". CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Forget everything, as one day everything will forget you. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00035 Date: 04/08/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 09:03am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Self Citizen's Arrest TR>You are not allowed any visitors, but you may talk to yourself. >Conjugal visits are not permitted. Wouldn't that constitute "cruel and unusual punishment", Tom? CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Forget living well. The best revenge is revenge. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00036 Date: 04/08/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 09:05am \/To: RICH WILLBANKS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE RW>weapon. I seem to remember that a LEO told me that he >had spent more time training with his baton then he had >with his sidearm back when he was a cadet. Common sense would tell you that there are a lot more occassions and techniques to use a baton than a gun. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Give every man thine ear, but few thy voice. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00037 Date: 04/08/98 From: GLENN VERMETTE Time: 01:52pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Obedience To Orders Of Police And Fi13:52:1504/08/98 *** Quoting Tom Rightmer to All *** TR> No person shall fail to heed a reasonable order of a police TR> officer or TR> firefighter while such officer is in the discharge of an official TR> duty in TR> maintaining the public safety or welfare. TR> TR> This is just another example of an ordinance which would allow the TR> commandeering of a vehicle for police use. It actually allows a TR> wide range of TR> required assistance. I thought you might find this interesting. Yeah, but it never ceases to amaze me on the number of mental midgets that want a debate on this when the crap is hitting the fan on the street. And then people wonder why force is sometimes necessary.....sigh... --- * Origin: The Smell Of Bacon II (1:340/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4E00038 Date: 04/09/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 12:39am \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 0 times) Subj: sick in bed MM> Have you heard the song that goes "I get knocked down, I get back up" MM> My daughter listens to it all the time by some group called MM> jumbawumba... Most good cops hgav the survival intinct in their MM> psyche. Yes, I think that I've heard that song. I've been knocked down twice since December, but I think I have it whipped now. I may even be back at work in the next 2 or 3 weeks, God willing. I do have a different perspective on life now, and I've changed many of my priorities. There's something about two potentially fatal illnesses that changes the way you think. Tom ... Time slows if you're on the outside of the bathroom door. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20)