--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00009 Date: 04/06/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 11:47pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE RB> Why do you think its a bell curve (which is what you're RB> describing)? It isn't - RB> about 1% of the wealthiest people own about 80% of the RB> world's wealth. Hardly a RB> bell curve. The problem is you are looking at WORLD wealth. That becomes a statistical trick. Like this; Do you know the city with the most millionaires? Tokyo. But most families living in Tokyo live in apartments/condominiums that a single person in the US would find crowded. The reason that there are so many millionaires is the fact that real estate prices shot up so fast. People who owned even the smallest dwelling suddenly found that it was worth over a million dollars(US). Now does that dwelling offer more then the apartment you rent for $XXX.XX or the $XX,XXX.XX house? Does that person really control a million dollars worth of wealth? You have to look at money as nothing more a commodity to be bought and sold. If I have a watch that I like and don't want to sell but you offer me $500 for it and I sell it. Lets say that you decided that you hate the watch and try to sell it but I don't really want it back but when I go down to $10 I buy it. Now is it a $500 watch or a $10 watch? Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00010 Date: 04/07/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 12:02am \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: working class folks RB> What is my alternative? As I've said, a social system that RB> does not have money. RB> Where has it worked? Spontaneously, there are a million RB> examples of people functioning as a civil society without RB> money. Historically, I can refer you to the decentralized RB> sandinistas, or israeli communes, or chiapas in mexico, or RB> spain in the 30's, etc etc. Neither of which work w/o money. The barter system only works in a local area. Man learned very early that there had to be some thing that could be carried a long distance w/o dying or spoiling but be worth trading. Its hard to trade thirty chickens to the blacksmith for repairing your signal tree when he already has fifty chickens. You'd wind up having to find something he thinks is worth the labor he put into the tree then try to trade for it with who ever owned it. If you currency is set at two chickens per dollar you could give him fifteen dollars. He could take it who ever had what he wanted and give it to them. Then when they wanted thirty chickens they could give it to you. RB> can get rich off many more people's labor. NEED will always RB> be a far better motivator than greed RB> anyday - and far more equitable. Need is what drives greed. W/o a market (a need) there is no need to produce something and no way to make money. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00011 Date: 04/07/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 12:15am \/To: RD THOMPSON (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE RB> GV> cop isn't going to shoot them if it becomes necessary? Apparently RB> GV> some do....which just amazes the heck out of me!! RB> RB> Yeah, they should realize that with the standard training a cop RB> gets, they aren't really that mentally equipped to handle a firearm RB> in a high-stress situation. RT> Do you think that you are? If yes, why and if no, how can RT> you judge? From the contact I've had with police officers I have to agree some what. A lot of officers spend more time being taught how to not sexually harass someone then on how to use their weapon. I seem to remember that a LEO told me that he had spent more time training with his baton then he had with his sidearm back when he was a cadet. Stress firing is a lot harder then qualification firing. Ask anyone who has ever had to fire at another person. And when there is incoming fire it gets even harder. There are several good books and video tapes on the subject out there. Of course there are a lot of BAD books and tapes out there. Anyway it takes a lot of training to operate under this type of stress. If you check into shootings (or accidents) one of the things you will find is a lot of "I don't remember. . ." or "I just did . . ." That's because you don't have time to think you only have time to react. If you don't have the training you don't react correctly. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00012 Date: 04/07/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 01:08pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 1 times) Subj: Self Citizen's Arrest Basics: It is your civic duty to report a crime to the police. You also have the right and responsibility to make a citizen's arrest. Thus, if you commit the crime, it would save tax dollars if you would make a Citizen's Self-Arrest. 1) Please obtain the proper forms from your local police department. 2) Fill in all of the blanks, if possible. 3) State the crime for which you are arresting yourself. 4) Paste a recent photo of yourself to the forms. If you don't have a recent photo, draw a rough sketch of yourself on a separate sheet of paper. 5) Read the following statement to yourself: "I am under arrest. I have a right to remain silent. Anything I say can and will be used against me in a court of law. I have the right to talk to a lawyer and have him/her present with me while I question myself. If I cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to represent me, if I wish one, before I question myself. If I decide to make a statement, I may stop at any time. Further Instructions: Do not leave your house. If you are not home now, go home immediately. Put any firearms or other potential weapons out of reach. Remove your belt and shoelaces. If others are present at your home, send them away. You are not allowed any visitors, but you may talk to yourself. Conjugal visits are not permitted. Consumption of alcohol or use of any other non-prescription drugs is not permitted. Do not attempt an escape, use all reasonable force to stop yourself. Report any escape attempts promptly, by phone, to the local police. Do not disturb any evidence present in your home. Remain in your home until the police arrive. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Batteries not included. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00013 Date: 04/07/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 01:08pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Disorderly Conduct It's not just the yelling of "FIRE" in a crowded theatre that can get you in trouble. I thought I would quote a typical ordinance that deals with matters such as this, just as a matter of interest. I might add that laws such as these have been on the books for many years in most jurisdictions. A person shall be guilty of disorderly conduct if, with the intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, alarm or recklessly creating the risk thereof he: 1) Acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another whereby any person is placed in fear of safety of his life, limb or health; 2) Acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another whereby the property of any person is placed in danger of being destroyed or damaged; 3) Endangers the lawful pursuits of another by acts of violence, angry threats and abusive conduct; 4) Jostles or crowds or pushes any person in any public place; 5) Uses "fighting words" directed toward any person and thus creates a turmoil; 6) Causes, provokes or engages in any fight, brawl or riotous conduct so as to endanger the life, limb, health or property of another; or 7) By acts of violence interferes with another's pursuit of a lawful occupation. I think you will find the above content to be very common in most jurisdictions. I thought you might find it interesting. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... ...I stand in awe. ( I hope I can get it off my shoes!) --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00014 Date: 04/07/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 01:08pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Disturbing The Peace Here are some other examples other than yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre that you might find interesting. Again, these have been on the books for a very long time, and most jurisdictions have an almost identical law. A. It is unlawful to disturb or alarm the peace of another or others by doing any of the acts set out in subsection B of this section. B. Disturbing the peace is the doing of any of the following in such a manner as would foreseeably alarm or disturb the peace of another or others: 1. Using obscene, offensive, abusive, profane, vulgar, threatening, violent or insulting language or conduct; 2. Appearing in an intoxicated condition; 3. Engaging in a fistic encounter; 4. Lewdly exposing one's person, or private parts thereof, in any public place or in any place where there are present other persons to be offended or annoyed thereby; 5. Pointing any pistol or any other deadly weapon whether loaded or not at any other person or persons either in anger or otherwise; 6. Holding an unlawful assembly of two (2) or more persons, including being assembled together and acting in concert, to do any unlawful act against the peace or to the terror of others or preparing for or moving toward such acts, or otherwise assembly unlawfully or riotously; 7. Interrupting any lawful assembly of people by making noise, by rude, indecent or improper behavior, by profane, improper or loud language, or in any other manner, either within the place of assembly or within hearing distance thereof; 8. Obstructing the free passage of pedestrians or vehicles on a street, right-of-way or sidewalk, or other public place; 9. Obstructing, molesting or interfering with any person lawfully in a public place; 10. Making unnecessarily loud, offensive noises; 11. Disturbing any congregation or assembly of persons meeting for religious worship by making noise, by rude, indecent or improper behavior, by profane, improper or loud language, or in any other manner, either within the place or worship or within hearing distance thereof; or 12. Committing any other act in such a manner calculated as to unreasonably disturb, interfere or alarm the public or the comfort and repose of any person. C. Whenever any police officer shall, in the exercise of reasonable judgment, decide that the presence of any person in any public place is causing any of the conditions enumerated in Subsection B herein, he may, if he deems it necessary for the preservation of the public peace and safety, order that person to leave that place; and any who shall refuse to leave after being ordered to do so by a police officer shall be guilty of a violation of this section. D. This section shall not apply to peaceful picketing, public speaking or other lawful expressions of opinion not in contravention of other laws. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... **FLASH** Eveready Bunny arrested, charged with battery. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00015 Date: 04/07/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 01:08pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Disturbing Funerals Here is yet another example of a limitation of free speech. No person shall willfully disturb, interrupt or disquiet any assemblage of people who have met for the purpose of any funeral, or obstruct or detain any person engaged in accompanying any funeral to a place of burial. Just something else I thought you might find interesting, just another example of common sense. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Devoted to the study of cat bathing as a martial art. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00016 Date: 04/07/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 01:08pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Citizens' Duty To Assist It is the duty of all persons in the city when called upon by any police officer to promptly aid and assist him in the execution of his duties. Court decisions arising from ordinances such as this allow the commandeering of vehicles and many other forms of assistance. I thought you might find this interesting. There are many other ordinances and statutes which support the same conclusions. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Innuendo = Italian suppository --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00017 Date: 04/07/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 01:08pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Obedience To Orders Of Police And Firefi13:08:4304/07/98 No person shall fail to heed a reasonable order of a police officer or firefighter while such officer is in the discharge of an official duty in maintaining the public safety or welfare. This is just another example of an ordinance which would allow the commandeering of a vehicle for police use. It actually allows a wide range of required assistance. I thought you might find this interesting. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Simplified Crime Bill: It's illegal to be a criminal. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4C00018 Date: 04/07/98 From: MIKE MCCANN Time: 09:52am \/To: LAWANDA TAYLOR (Read 1 times) Subj: TRAVELLERSIN SChow many? --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: UltraTech - Nashville, TN (615)356-0453 {V.34/V.FC} (1:116/30)