--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00000 Date: 04/05/98 From: PAUL HARNEY Time: 06:01am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: RULES The following are the official rules of the ASKACOP conference. The rules of this conference are a living document. They will change as we change and grow as we grow. I will always remain open to ideas echo participants have regarding the rules of this conference. These should be submitted to me via NETMAIL only at my FidoNet address 1:2630/221 or via one of my two Internet address, pharney@cjbbs.com or pharney@metronj.org. The moderators of this conference are: Paul Harney 1:2630/221 Moderator Tom Rightmer 1:385/20 Co-Modertor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. REAL names are preferred in this echo. If your BBS software will not allow you to change your name, then think about signing your real name to your messages. If you are using an pseudonym and a problem arises and I attempt to reach out for you but can not contact you due to the use of the pseudonym, your access may be forfeit. Please make sure your SysOp knows how to find you by your pseudonym. 2. No profanity. It is not required to make your point known. 3. No flames or inflammatory posts. Being topically controversial is one thing but when the line is crossed and controversial becomes a deliberate attempt to raise the sensitivity of others, warnings will be forth coming. Continued violations will get the violator's conference privileges revoked for a period of time suitable for the violation. This at the discretion of the Moderator. Personal attacks on fellow conference members are neither needed, sought, nor tolerated. 4. Personal disagreements will be taken to Netmail by participants. If Netmail is unavailable to the participants, the argument will be dropped. 5. Violations of conference rules will generate a polite response in the echo for a first offense. A second offense will, where possible, result in a NetMail warning being issued to the violator and the SysOp of the originating system. Further violations will result in potential loss of conference privileges, as determined by the moderator. System turn around, where applicable and recognizable, will be considered in such cases. Please be advised that there are certain Red Flag violations that fall under common sense guidelines that can get a user's access cut immediately, for instance the use of this echo to promote illegal activity, ie, the pandering of contraband like kiddie porn, etc. 6. Discussions are to remain within the topic of the conference. The moderator will be the sole judge of what is and is not on topic. Subjects that easily fall outside the realm of the topic, ie drug laws and fire arms topics WILL be kept to how they are DIRECTLY effected by ENFORCEMENT of the law. Please remember, LEO's are law enforcers, not law makers. The moderator will make all attempts to keep the conference open but if a string is declared off topic, all conference members are expected to concede the issue and take all additional commentary to NETMAIL. 7. Response to Moderators' messages will be made by NETMAIL only, response will not be made in the echo. Discussions dealing with the moderation of this conference are off topic within the conference itself. As stated above, I am open to discussions on the conference's rules [when done in netmail] and have already changed them more then once due to input from the conference's users, for instance, pseudonyms didn't use to be allowed in the conference. If you disagree with the rules in some way, and I find your presentation and reasons to be sound, it may very well happen again. TO ALL ASKACOP PARTICIPANTS: This conference is dedicated to the exchange of information between law enforcement professionals and the public they protect and serve. The current moderator of this conference is Paul Harney. I can be reached at 1:2630/321. However, the guy to call first is Tom Rightmer, at 1:385/20 as Tom is responsible for the day to day moderation of this conference. Policy is to try and maintain as open a conference as possible so as to allow for maximum exchange of information, while still maintaining the conference's topical integrity. Please assist in this endeavor by keeping your posts on topic and valuing the right of your fellow conference members to have an opinion, if not the opinion itself. If you have questions I or Tom am always available via Netmail to be of any assistance I can. If you want to introduce a topic you think is important but aren't sure as to its topicity, then NETMAIL me with your idea and we'll work on it together. I am also open to well thought out suggestions regarding the conference and how it might be improved. Rants though are appended to file >NULL. I very much consider this experiment in mutually beneficial communication to be a partnership we all have a stake in. Yours in that partnership, Paul H. Moderator --- Rise and be counted * Origin: (1:2630/321) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00001 Date: 04/05/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 02:49pm \/To: CAROL SHENKENBERGER (Read 1 times) Subj: On-Topic Request CS> My apologies Tom. I just outbounded a few but I'll be a good girl CS> now. (Ryan, use netmail if you desire to reply to any of them CS> please). xxcarol No apologies needed, I think that most of us have written a borderline or off-topic message from time to time. So, to keep this one on topic, Lawton, Oklahoma still has a law on about how you must hitch your horse if you park it in the downtown area. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Children have more need of models than of critics. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00002 Date: 04/05/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 02:49pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 1 times) Subj: Mail Distribution Problem RB> -!- FMail 1.22 ! Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO RB> (1:226/580.5) Ryan, I've been asked to post your origin line because some are not getting your messages. They see the replies to your messages, but they don't see your original messages. I think that I'm getting at least the majority of your messages here, but there is a broken mail link somewhere. I'm wondering if there is a distribution point along the way that doesn't handle points correctly. I'm fairly ill right now and spend a lot of time in bed, but I'll try to investigate the problem. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... How can you tell when you've run out of invisible ink? --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00003 Date: 04/05/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 03:17pm \/To: RYAN BAGUEROS (Read 1 times) Subj: Mail Distribution Problem Ryan, I should have retrieved kludge lines and other information to help find the problem, so I've gotten all of the information from my system at this time. I'll try to do some more with other systems and try to find out where your mail is being eaten. I would hope this to be a simple problem, like point handling, that can be fixed easily. Loss of mail is a very serious problem, as most mail movers have a great deal of pride in being almost perfect. I'll try to work on this some more and keep you informed. Your kludge lines and path information follows: @PID: Telegard 3.09.g1 @MSGID: 1:226/580.5 9d4cdbb7 @REPLY: 1:116/30.0 3523b2a6 -!- FMail 1.22 ! Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) @SEEN-BY: 13/13 25 102/125 735 105/103 330 107/453 109/263 120/228 @SEEN-BY: 123/4 138/146 139/630 157/586 201/505 209/7211 226/10 @SEEN-BY: 226/580 600 830 234/100 239/1 260/10 261/1137 3090 @SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/160 279/14 320/119 334/204 @SEEN-BY: 341/130 385/4 20 100 396/1 2433/225 2604/104 2624/306 @SEEN-BY: 2625/111 3601/15 3615/7 @PATH: 226/580 10 600 270/101 385/100 Now to keep this message on topic: Adultery is still a felony in the State of Oklahoma, NO KIDDING! --- Telegard v3.09.g1 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00004 Date: 04/05/98 From: ALAN RACKMILL Time: 07:06pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance Charles Hunter wrote in a message to Alan Rackmill: CH> While that is probably good advice; it is not always the CH> best strategy under certain circumstances. AR>Out of curiosity, what circumstances would that be? CH> One example: You are stopped by an officer who discovers CH> that you are carrying a concealed firearm. Do you keep your CH> mouth shut and go to jail; or do you show your permit CH> assuming you are carrying within the terms of your concealed CH> weapons permit? Should have figured you would come up with something like that. Alan Team OS/2, Fidonet 1:107/101, ibmNET 40:4371/101, OS2NET 80:135/15 internet: alanrackmill@mindspring.com --- timEd/2 1.01 * Origin: The Maven's Roost * MAX/2 * WARP * v.34 1-908-821-4533 1:107/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00005 Date: 04/06/98 From: LAWANDA TAYLOR Time: 11:34am \/To: DON BOX (Read 1 times) Subj: TRAVELLERSIN SC -> RB> Yeah, well you watch 20/20 for your news, and I'll just talk to my -> RB> friends who _are_ travellers, ok? -> Ryan... you just screwed yersef! And he did it AGAIN! How many times does this make? LaWanda --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Solar Quest Online - Omaha, Ne - (402) 341-4951 (1:285/85) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00006 Date: 04/05/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 10:30am \/To: GLENN VERMETTE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: police brutality Quoting Glenn Vermette from a message to Ryan Bagueros GV> You are an example of true ignornace in this area I'm afraid. The GV> police, out of all profession, are probably THEE MOST scrutinized GV> when it comes to issues like this. Most, if not all, areas have more GV> checks and balances in place, and more avenues of public complaint, No, Glenn, I think that your parroting of the official government line is pretty unconvincing. To begin with, let's give ourselves some context: we are talking about a justice system where: a) money is most often the most important factor, i.e. whoever has the better lawyer wins the case, which means that a rich person will always have a much better chance of getting "justice" ... guilty or not. b) there is a recent history of state-sponsored racism, which upheld blatantly racist laws and enforced in the streets by racist cops (this was probably even your generation). As with most anything, doing away with the most obvious symptoms rarely gets to the root of the problem. This is supported by the disparate numbers of poor people in prison (both white & black), the disparate numbers of black people in prison, as well as the frustrations of the black community in general. (in other words, unless you _are_ black and poor, how dare you say what is happening and what is not happening TO THEM?) c) there is an even more recent history of organized and illegal framings, set-ups, spying, and harrassment by federal law enforcement in co-operation with state and local police. Anyone may request documentation of this through the Freedom of Information Act, although it is probably more convenient just to look for it on the web. Even though the government claims that this "ended," common sense and the fact that people targeted by this program are still in prison (including death row) leads one to believe otherwise. Now, there's our context. GV> Brutality is not a problem, at least not in the area I live in. The GV> cops just don't go out and see some guy walking down the street and GV> say, "Hey George, let'sget out and beat the crap out of that guy". GV> It just doesn't happen my friend! However, you likely see it that I think the key point there is "not in the area I live in." Because it does not occur right outside your house does NOT mean it does not go on! How far do you think the system would go on if every police abuse was on public display for everyone to see? And, your naivete about violence is pretty amazing. It has been shown time and time again that power fuels violence. What makes so many people commit rape in times of war in a foreign country, when they would probably never rape someone living here and going to a normal job? Why are there so many documented instances of police abuse in all different countries throughout history? Why are there so many instances of police abuse just in this country? Why do you think that the police are as "scrutinized" as they are? To blindly accept that every time someone says they were abused by a cop, or harassed by a cop, or whatever, they are just lying or to always give presumption to the cop is the real ignorance here. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00007 Date: 04/05/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 10:34am \/To: GLENN VERMETTE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE Quoting Glenn Vermette from a message to Ryan Bagueros GV> Ahhhhh....say no more! Should have guessed it from the GV> beinging...now I know where all your ignorance comes from...why GV> didn't you just tell us from the beginning that you're connected to GV> some radical. moron group...would have saved everyone a ton of time. GV> Now that I know, it's not longer worth my effort to respond to Yes, it comes from a long tradition of radical groups who have moronically pushed for an end to legal racism, oppressive and dangerous working conditions and child labor, systemic/legal sexism. Everyone thinks those movements were good AFTER the fact, never wanting to associate themselves with it as its happening. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F4B00008 Date: 04/05/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 10:39am \/To: BOB RUDOLPH (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE Quoting Bob Rudolph from a message to Ryan Bagueros BR> But I AM openminded - I'm just not a sap. When someone starts with BR> 'more equitable economic system' what follows 95% of the time is a BR> thinly disguised plea or plan to take more from me if I happen to be BR> successful - not because I don't deserve the return on my sweat I can understand that because those are the two options that are pushed in the mainstream media and academia. You either have more capitalism, or wealth redistribution. Anyone smart about their money can figure that one out: less taxes is the way to go. But there is a whole other movement out there that is not only ignored but actively discouraged which stands for an end to oppression both by money and the government. I don't expect you to work for anyone else, I don't want to either - but that is EXACTLY what we do right now. We work to make profit, not to make what we need. And we don't work to make ourselves profit, we work to make the boss profit, and the boss's boss profit, etc etc. I'm just saying that there IS another alternative, and if you haven't heard about all the people working to do something about it, I can understand why. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5)