--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3L00018 Date: 03/16/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 09:18pm \/To: KENT ANDERSON (Read 1 times) Subj: Zero Tolerance KA>For example, I often have a single drink when we eat dinner out. Even >though my breath would undoubdtedly smell like alcohol if I were >stopped, the fact that we have zero tolerance for DUI doesn't bother >me a bit. I am certain I would pass the breath test and field sobriety >tests. Whether there were zero tolerance or not, I would hope the >stopping officer would make certain that someone he stopped was NOT >legally DUI. I know what you mean; but WHAT IF you were visiting in Denver, Colorado (or some higher altitude) would you be so cavalier in assuming that the drink would not render you intoxicated? The higher you go, the quicker and harder the alcohol affects you. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * On the cutting edge of software evolution. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Services www.airpower.com 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3L00019 Date: 03/16/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 09:39pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 1 times) Subj: Misdemeanor Arrests MM> Basics are the same buut the devil is in the details. After working MM> in literally dozens of jurusdiction and at leasr 6 states, I can MM> assure you that the practices,policies , and laws are not MM> interchangeable. Basics are similar, but implementatiob practices MM> vary greatly. In your jurisdiction are pc arrest on misdemeanors by le MM> permitted without warrant? They are here. examples abound. non leo MM> citizen arrests here are minimally constrained, and there is little or MM> no difference between l Please see my previous message. I realize there are differences, but here we are talking about bare bone basics. Maybe the terms aren't clear because semantics between jurisdictions, so I'll try to clarify. We are talking about a misdemeanor arrest on a violation not committed in the presence of the officer. Now, let's get rid of any confusing terms. You either have a citizen affiant who is willing to serve in the prosecution, or you have very limited exceptions where an officer can make a misdemeanor arrest not committed in his presence without the citizen affiant. In answer to your question, misdemeanor arrests are allowed in Oklahoma without a warrant. I think that I already listed the circumstances, but I'll list them again, maybe without the terms which might tend to confuse matters. In Oklahoma, here are the ways a misdemeanor arrest can be made: 1) with a warrant; 2) offense committed in the presence of an officer; 3) by citizen's arrest and/or citizen affiant committed as a witness for the prosecution (requires reasonable grounds and corroboration for custody or submittal for a warrant); 4) Exceptions which do not require a citizen or commission in the presence of the officer (i.e. radio communications of a traffic violation from one officer to another officer, domestic abuse with injury within the last 4 hours and reasonable grounds you have the person who committed the assault, and other very limited exceptions). I think the key to the discussion, probably in all jurisdictions, is whether or not you have a citizen affiant/complainant who is willing to serve as a witness for the prosecution and formally commit themselves. If you take the citizen affiant/complainant completely out of the picture and the offense was not committed in the presence of an officer, options for the officer are very limited unless the case is a listed exception. In all jurisdictions, you could take the discussion MUCH further by comparing custody and non-custody arrest situations. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Twenty-four hour banking: I just don't have time for it. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3M00000 Date: 03/16/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 06:56pm \/To: DON BOX (Read 1 times) Subj: STREET PEOPLE BR> The worst kind of junkie is a power junkie. There are money BR> junkies, sex junkies, drug junkies, and then those who get off on DB> Yep! I call them "control freaks." Unfortunately they seem DB> to excel in areas of power. Military, police, social DB> administration, academics and medicine. Hum. . .ever notice WHO is in favor of zero tolerance? DB> Ok, I think I'm gonna go hide now... the big fan just got DB> turned on! :) ME TOO!!!!! Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3M00001 Date: 03/16/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 07:00pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance TR> misdemeanor criminal offenses that have to be committed in TR> the presence of a police officer before the officer can file RW>Hum. . .so if I commit a misdemeanor in front of 30 >people I can get away with it as long as none of them >are a cop? WOW!! You and I both know that's a load of >fecal matter. If a teacher sees a crime and reports it >to the cop the cop HAS to take action. CH> Rich, there ARE distinctions in the law between misdemeanors CH> and felonies. In Tom's state it may very well be that CH> criminal prosecutions are handled in the manner he states; Don't take this wrong but as I tell the wife; "Yes, dear. . .I know dear. . .yes, dear. . " Jezzzes leave one lousy smiley face off a msg and see what happens. . . Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3M00002 Date: 03/16/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 07:06pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 1 times) Subj: Teenage Smoking MM> No choice in ZT is as you said no choice. MM> zDo you think a leo stopped for traffic violation in a zt MM> crackdown will be handled he same as a civilian? Depends. If the IAB, or what ever you call it ran a couple of stings and put a few cops out to dry for letting someone 'slide' if he had a badge then sure. In a real life, nope. The same way I'd bet a kid of city leader wouldn't be treated the same way as a 'welfare kid'. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3M00003 Date: 03/16/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 07:14pm \/To: RICH GRIEBEL (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance -> I'm not saying that there are not officers who would rush to the -> conclusion that you were in possession of illegal drugs. However, -> absent some other indication that you were in such possession and faced -> with a reasonable claim that they are legal drugs authorized by a -> prescription I would have one big hole in my probable cause if I didn't -> check out your story. Now if you just sit there and invoke the fifth -> amendment.......that's a different story. RG> I've dealt with several truck drivers that have prescription RG> drugs all mixed together in a bottle. Our radio operators RG> have access to a PDR, and 24hr numbers they can call for RG> most pharmaceutical chains. If all else fails we start Back in the old days these might have been a lot of use now days not much. It wasn't that long ago you could call a pharmacist and tell him the color and shape of a pill and he could tell what it was, heck some pills had their brand name stamped on them. Now days you get a scrip fill today and the pills may be green hexagons but when you get it refilled next month the pills might be red 'caplets' and the next time the pills might be capsules. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3M00004 Date: 03/16/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 07:25pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: Zero Tolerance RW>Which is selective enforcement, which is saying that >you are willing to let people commit crimes in areas >but not in others. CH> But it's not selective for the sake of being selective. CH> Usually in law enforcement zt is invoked for an area that CH> has serious problems and needs cleaning up. Ah, but tell that to the civil rights people who point out that all your ZT areas are minority or low income areas. RW>Sure they do. If you catch two people doing the same >thing in two different places you treat them the both >the same. Not let a 16 y.o. kid driving the BMW in the >neighborhood where the houses cost a minimum of >$500,000 off with a "you've been a bad boy" speech when >you find a 'roach' in his car but if it is a 16 y.o. >kid walking down an ally in a public housing area with >a roach in his sock you toss him in the back of the CH> You posit and interesting example, Rich; but that is not the CH> intent of zt operations. How many time have you heard about how a lot the drug buyers are 'outsiders' who come in to the "bad neighborhoods" just to get drugs? So lets say a city councilman's kid is caught in his $60,000 BMW in your ZT area. Now is he going to get the ZT treatment that Joe Smuck in his $8,000 Yugo gets? RW>flashlight. Why if this is a DUI road block? Seems to >me like it is nothing more than a police check point >where they are searching me and my car for any >violations of the law. CH> Any officer stopping your vehicle is going to be concerned CH> about his safety. Obviously, if you had a 12 guage shotgun CH> on the seat next to you it would be important that he be CH> aware of that. Moreover, the officer has an obligation to Hum. . .I guess they think maybe I'm Plasticman and they should make sure I don't have that shotgun on the rear floorboard behind the driver's seat. I can see the argument but when the courts have ruled that the officer can search the passenger compartment even if the driver is out side of the car for the officer's "safety" it starts getting really thin. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3M00005 Date: 03/16/98 From: RICH GRIEBEL Time: 10:10pm \/To: DON BOX (Read 1 times) Subj: STREET PEOPLE -> MSGID: 1:102/836.0 8C1C0BB5 -> TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 94-0079 -> MM> Socities norms are simple. Laws are passed by society to do away -> MM> with what you seem to accuse me and other officers of, . We are -> MM> the people society has chosen to enforce the laws they create in -> MM> an impartial and fair way. Sorry Don, but from a LE view the -> MM> homeless ARE problems that cause problems dealt with dauly in a -> MM> myriad of circumstances -> Why is it Seattle has a large homeless (tramp, bum, hobo, etc) -> population without the massive problems other areas seem to have. -> Yes, there's societal problems but they're over on Cathedral Hill, -> another part of town. You do see the indigent walking around, even -> sitting on public benches. You don't see them sleeping under downtown -> underpasses and public parks. Whoa, you've not been watching the news. In the past 6 months Seattle and the surrounding communities have had two widely publicized murders committed by "street people". Over the past 2 years communities have passed a series of laws prohibiting aggressive pan handling after a history of assaults by pan handlers. The vandalism and damage done to private and public property is also on the rise. Seattle in the past had a passive response to the homeless and it has risen up and bit them in the butt. Rather then taking proactive steps, they ignored the problem making it a haven for the homeless. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Kendra Communications, Everett WA (1:343/304) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3M00006 Date: 03/16/98 From: RICH GRIEBEL Time: 10:15pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 1 times) Subj: STREET PEOPLEiseattle -> MSGID: 1:116/30.0 350d4f80 -> REPLY: 1:102/836.0 8C1C0BB5 -> Seattle is a Northern state with consistent bad/rainy weather. My -> aunt lives in tacoma and I have never even desired to visit. Mike... Seattle on the Puget Sound in the State of Washington. It's constant rainy weather is a myth (it was sunny and 60 today) and is a pleasant area to live in (Seattle proper is crime ridden and expensive, but the surrounding burbs are nice) --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Kendra Communications, Everett WA (1:343/304) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3M00007 Date: 03/09/98 From: EARL NEWSOM Time: 12:50pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: Roll Call TR> EN> We have been married for a wonderful twenty-five.....months. She is TR> EN> gift from God. If you ever get down this way (just North of Dallas) TR> EN> I'll buy you a bowl of chili and we can tell tales to each other. TR> EN> I'll even tell you how a man from Galilee changed my life. TR>My wife and I both are OKIES, and we've been married 25 years, this month. I TR>appreciate those gifts from God, and we know that man from Galilee. We ave TR>relatives who live in Dallas, and I might take you up on the bowl of chili TR>one of these days. Take care. My e-mail addresses are: newsom@popi.net and enewsom@juno.com. Drop me a line and I will give you my phone and address. Have not been keeping up with the echo as family problems (death of step-mother in early Feb. and my father fell two weeks ago and was on the floor for 40 hours before he was found.....so I have been out of town for nearly two weeks). Naturally your wife is welcome to join us in a bowl of chili. The Ole Sarge OLXWin 1.00b Support your local medical examiner - die strangely. --- ProBoard v2.16 [Reg] * Origin: Computer Connection BBS <> Irving, TX USA (1:124/7008)