--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00005 Date: 03/12/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 11:06pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE MM>awaiting sentencing on appeal. It is a sad and attrocious fact that absolut >power corrupts. The best we can do is clean it up when we find it in such Mike, it's been my experience that when you have bad apples such as you describe, the good officers quickly isolate themselves from the bad. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Forget everything, as one day everything will forget you. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Services www.airpower.com 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00006 Date: 03/13/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:00am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: School Policies TR>Double jeopardy is the trying of a person twice for the same offense. The ke >word here is, "trying". All you are talking about above is punishment from >two different entities, and that is not double jeopardy or a violation of th >Constitution. In my family, there might be a third punishment, parking the >car for a week. Let me give you a more severe example. The police atch >little Johnny at school with a pound of marijuana. Little Johnny is kicked >out of school by the school and charged with Possession With Intent To >Distribute Marijuana by the police. The criminal case will be heard or >"tried" in public court. Being kicked out of school will have nothing to o >with the criminal case. Tom, your assessment as stated above, is correct. However just so nobody gets draws the wrong general conclusion, I would point out that the Fifth Amendment does protect from multiple punishments for the same offense. That is to say that once you have been sentenced, you cannot usually be called back and given a more onerous sentence for that offense. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Forget living well. The best revenge is revenge. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Services www.airpower.com 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00007 Date: 03/13/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:11am \/To: RICH WILLBANKS (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance TR> misdemeanor criminal offenses that have to be committed in TR> the presence of a police officer before the officer can file RW>Hum. . .so if I commit a misdemeanor in front of 30 >people I can get away with it as long as none of them >are a cop? WOW!! You and I both know that's a load of >fecal matter. If a teacher sees a crime and reports it >to the cop the cop HAS to take action. Rich, there ARE distinctions in the law between misdemeanors and felonies. In Tom's state it may very well be that criminal prosecutions are handled in the manner he states; and in view of his rank, I would assume that his statement on the procedure is correct. It may have to do with whether prosecutions have to go through a grand jury indictment or a criminal information process. Also, can you imagine how many misdemeanor arrests an officer would HAVE to make on "information received" rather than personal observation if your theory were correct? An entire department could very quickly become bogged down in paperwork and proceedings for misdemeanors they did not see committed. In your suggested scenario, there is nothing stopping that teacher from making a citizen arrest or visiting the prosecutors office to initiate a criminal complaint. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Give every man thine ear, but few thy voice. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Services www.airpower.com 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00008 Date: 03/13/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:14am \/To: JOHN F DAVIS (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance JF>School rule: NO UNWANTED SEXUAL CONTACT (never mind the question of >"is a kiss ALWAYS sexual contact for the moment) JF>The young lady in the story freely admitted that she asked the boy to >kiss her. IN SO MANY WORDS JF>Yet he was still suspended for "unwanted sexual contact" JF>This is an example of a rule and a school board, way off the deep end. A parent always has the option of invoking the jurisdiction of a court to intervene in such matters to prevent injustice. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Glory is fleeting but obscurity is forever. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Services www.airpower.com 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00009 Date: 03/13/98 From: SEANETTE BLAYLOCK Time: 04:02am \/To: RICH WILLBANKS (Read 1 times) Subj: I'm BAAACK!!!! :-) Rich: SB> BTW, I just found out recently that, while a Ford Tempo DOES SB> have a quite generously sized trunk relative to the size of SB> the car, the trunk is NOT big enough to park a Saturn in it, SB> especially at 40+ mph. :-) Seanette RW> Isn't this the third or fourth car you've broken? :-). I've totaled a couple myself, but that was back in 1992. From then until now, cars have only been given up due to mechanical problems. Of course, having the car compressed to at least 13" shorter than Ford intended it to be, after the other driver failed to see a white car with brake lights in use on a clear sunny afternoon [both cars facing north], might well constitute mechanical problems. :-) Seanette ... Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 * Origin: Salata * Redondo Beach, CA * 310-543-0439 33.6k (1:102/125) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00010 Date: 03/12/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 07:42am \/To: DON BOX (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE Quoting Don Box from a message to Tom Rightmer DB> I wasn't directing the responsibility issue specifically at you, Tom. DB> Its just that every time I hear that word, its usually coming from DB> someone attempting toforce their values upon someone else. DB> Responsibility, to me, is a two way street. The (our) system demands I find that most people who preach about personal responsibility and self-reliance are the same ones who went to college on dad's bill, never held a job, etc etc. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00011 Date: 03/13/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 07:58am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE Quoting Tom Rightmer from a message to Ryan Bagueros TR> This was a message to Don Box. Don and I have been on opposing sides TR> of several discussions. Just why do you think I would have a desire TR> to patronize Don? If I disagree with Don, I've done so openly and Well, first of all, you weren't being patronizing to Don, you were being patronizing to the general population, specifically those who have met your definition of "street people" ... TR> or a drug addict, that is your problem and your expense. Ryan, ARE TR> YOU SAYING THAT WORKING PEOPLE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO SUPPORT TR> SOMEONE'S ALCOHOL OR DRUG HABIT? If not, you'll probably have a tough Well, if you want to go further, what I would really say is that there should be no such system where some people who slave their life away at work while others cannot even get a job, all for the benefit of a very few select individuals. Otherwise, hell yes, give the bum some change. TR> Ryan, tell us everything you know about alcoholism in the police TR> profession and where you got your information. In the same reply, TR> please tell us what this has to do with an obligation for a police TR> officer to buy alcohol or dope for a street person. I don't have a Well, it was basically an irony; here you are calling for the police to haul off panhandlers who want to spend money on (gasp!) beer, when the police who are these great working heroes have the exact same problems. First of all, cops are overwhelmingly white with a working or middle class background. Perhaps because most employment psychology tests do not care about finding racist or classist tendencies (see Jennifer Nislow, How to Find Psychologically Sound Recruits, 14 Law Enforcement News 268, 1988), police are found to have exhibited these qualities (racism & classism), see Bayley & Mendelsohn, Minorities and the Police Confrontation in America 145 (1969). Arthur Neiderhoffer's 1967 employment-psychological study identified police officers as "cynical, authoritarian, rigid, aggressive, punitive, impulsive risk takers, racially prejudiced, emotionally maladjusted, and lacking in self confidence." Furthermore, cops as a group experience high divorce rates, and they are disproportionately represnted in spousal and child abuse (see, Zamora, The SF Exam, Apr 4, 1994, pA2 and Phillips, The Record, Jan. 14, 1994, D1, or even Dauler, NY Times, Jan. 17, 1993, pM1). You can read about the alcoholism problem of cops in the Courier-Journal, Jan. 6, 1991, Denial Allows Officers' Drinking to Worsen, p1A. You might also want to check out the comprehensive "The Myth of the Good Cop and the Inadequacy of Fourth Amendment Remedies for Black Men: Contrasting Presumptions of Innocence and Guilt," Robin K. Magee, Capital University Law Review, Volume 23, 1994. It basically shreds the idea that society (and the courts) should presume that cops are somehow better equipped to deal with social problems given the poor training and poor education they have, and that the type of person who would become a cop does so with abuse of power in mind. I'll let you catch up a little on that one. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00012 Date: 03/13/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 08:04am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: STREET PEOPLE Quoting Tom Rightmer from a message to Ryan Bagueros TR> equation? This is why I will not hand money to a panhandler. I've TR> taken many to buy food, and it didn't take long with some of them to TR> find out that is not whatthey had in mind. I would have to be honest TR> and say that I have a lot more respect for those who ask for work TR> before they ask for the handout. Do you have a term worse than TR> "classist" for someone with this opinion? It's probably a little late So, am I thinking that you think it is okay to be "classist"? Do you think it is okay to be racist? Most people expressing classist viewpoints also have some good racist ones, too, since poverty is racist in this country. One goes along with the other. The point is that in a capitalist society, which the U$A is, there necessarily _must_ be an underclass, a poor class, an unemployed class, a low-wage earning class, all the way up to whatever you are, and all the way up to whatever bill gates is. Its like a lottery: there isn't enough of everything because the rich horde it all, so someone has to end up being the bum. You should be thanking your lucky stars it wasn't you. Unless you are still convinced that everything you got in life is 100% earned, and that privilege or status or your parent's money didn't help you get what you have. You are being patronizing because you want to give away your money, but only when you can dictate what it will be spent on. Why not just give them some money and forget about it? Why even find out what they spend it on? If you lived in the freezing cold winter and slept on the sidewalk, wouldn't you want to get drunk now and then? TR> echo is in any position to patronizeanyone else. That term usually TR> refers to a person using someone for some sort of gain. I don't know No, patronizing means condescending. You think you can make decisions for other people and tell them what is a good and bad thing to do. Buy a hamburger, good. Buy a beer, bad. When, it seems, if you haven't ever been homeless or exceedingly poor, how the hell would you know? --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00013 Date: 03/13/98 From: RYAN BAGUEROS Time: 08:07am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Caught You OooOOooh! You *caught* me! Quoting Tom Rightmer from a message to Ryan Bagueros TR> to live and let live whenever possible. I offer information about TR> shelter, food, and other forms of assistance. I might also add that TR> some street people become very good sources of information for TR> the thoughts of others. I might add that I help with food, clothes, TR> I think that Don pointed out a large variety of reasons and TR> conditions that would put someone on the street, and many by choice. TR> There are some street people inmy city that seldom ever cause anyone TR> a problem, and there are others who cause daily problems. There are TR> lots of ways to become unpopular fairly quickly (i.e. scaring Look! My quoter did it again! Wow, I'm getting really good at this editing thing. The board you're on runs Telegard, why not ask the sysop why this might be before you start posting crap ... ask him about the nature of Telegard's quoting feature. And open mouth, and insert foot. --- FMail 1.22 * Origin: #thepublicistoblame#.subversivetelecom.OHiO (1:226/580.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3I00014 Date: 03/13/98 From: MIKE MCCANN Time: 09:33am \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance My point is simple, common sense doesn't rule in ZT yjr way the rules are written is the way they are enforced. Now we get to the meat: --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: UltraTech - Nashville, TN (615)356-0453 {V.34/V.FC} (1:116/30)