--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00057 Date: 03/07/98 From: SCOTT MCQUILKIN Time: 07:17pm \/To: RICH GRIEBEL (Read 1 times) Subj: Police Recruits Rich Griebel said to Scott Mcquilkin About: Police Recruits Dated: 03-06-98 22:02hrs * D.A.R.E., Is Life! -> -> Charles Hunter said to Rich Griebel -> Dated: 03-03-98 07:05hrs * D.A.R.E., Is Life! -> RG>Surprisingly there seems to be a problem finding applicants that can -> >pass the exhaustive background investigation too... -> CH> The fact that the investigation is exhaustive is a good thing. -> Yes..it is. -> Charles Hunter would never pass! RG> I have no doubt Mr. Hunter would probably pass such a background... Hmmm, Lets see... I'll send you all my personal Info via eMAIL and you can check me out, ok? I challenge Mr Hunter to do the same. _ Professional Security Agent <=> Commissioned State of Ohio; Notary Public eMAIL: s.charles@neopc.org -*- P.O. Box 1523 * Elyria, Ohio 44036-1523 --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] * Origin: NorthEast Ohio PC User Group BBS (1:157/427) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00058 Date: 03/07/98 From: JOHN F DAVIS Time: 06:58pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance TR>I agree that some of the schools go overboard, but you have to remember that TR>school policy is not the law. Yes I know that School Policy is not the law.. Unless you happen to be inside the school.... Then it is the law (Well, not legally, but still it has the force of law) Laws, however are subject to review of the people. PEOPLE can take over, If a law is passed which is BAD, then the PEOPLE have the power to do something about it (Pettition to place the issue on the ballot and vote it into oblivion) However Schools are free to make their own policy. At the wim of thier board, With little, if any, public interference. The Pubilc, in many cases NEVER KNOWS. And the only recourse is to vote for differeent appliccants in the next school board elections. TR> Schools are attempting to address some very TR>difficult problems, and most of the administrators are completely outside TR>their area of expertise. Now there we have agreement TR>The primary problem of a school should be to teach TR>children, not deal with guns, dope, and to the death conflicts. Some chool TR>districts consult with people who know what they are doing, and some just TR>jump in with what sounds like it might work. Please keep in mind two TR>beginning points: 1) school policy is not public law; 2) the police nforce TR>public law, not school policy. Again we have agreement... However within the school bounds, and on the school property the policies of the school have the force of law. In fact, I've witnessed schools who extend that power beyond their boundries. To public lands patrolled by the police. (This I have witnessed with my own eyes) As to police officers working the schools... Well the police can enforce the public LAW within the school. And sometimes it's a "School Cop" who is empowered with the authority to enforce School "law" (note quotes around "law" please) and sometimes it's a real cop who "moonlights" as a school cop (Big plan of a looser here in Detroit was to rent all the police out as "rent-a-cops" during their off hours, That's part of the reason she was a looser when the ballots were counted) And yes, that can cause confusion However the types who would suspend a student, WITHOUT TRIAL OR PROOF (note evidence is not the same as proof) for passing out drugs, when said drug is a genuine, untainted, sugar cube, They need to be 1: castrated 2: Dismissed from any posistion of power higher than Ditch Digger TR>The intentions of school officials in dealing with drugs on campass are good I agree the Intentions are good. So's the sales pitch BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THEM MAKE SURE THAT THE DRUGS ARE REALLY DRUGS In the story I told (Refered to above) there were no drugs, Not even so much as an asprin tablet. Just sugar, Pure sugar, Like the very well named Life-saver's candy. Pure sugar with a hint of flavor added. No LSD, No Crack. No Mary Jane, No Horse, No Snow. Just sugar. * SLMR 2.1a * Intellect has its limits while stupidity knows no bounds --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.03H1 * Origin: The Chessplayer's Forum (313)386-7054 (1:2410/278) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00059 Date: 03/07/98 From: JOHN F DAVIS Time: 06:58pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerancet-he tablet MM>Yup and a piece of hard candy could be used in enforcing the "counterfeit su MM>nce">g Well... In the case of the Gluco-Tab... A piece of hard candy is not a counterfeit substance... It's a genuine recommended alternative "medication" (Since it contains the same, basic, ingreadents, Just a bit more flavor) But yes... I get your point. * SLMR 2.1a * The four food groups:Fast, Frozen, Instant and Chocolate. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.03H1 * Origin: The Chessplayer's Forum (313)386-7054 (1:2410/278) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00060 Date: 03/08/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 08:48am \/To: SCOTT MCQUILKIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Police Recruits SM> Hmmm, Lets see... I'll send you all my personal Info via eMAIL and you > can check me out, ok? SM> I challenge Mr Hunter to do the same. 1. You assume that anyone cares about your "personal info". 2. You are trying to trade peanuts for gold. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Watch where you go...remember where you've been... --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Services www.airpower.com 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00061 Date: 03/08/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 11:03am \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 1 times) Subj: STREET PEOPLE RT> Do you find that street people tend to feel that they have a _right_ RT> to a bit more latitude to "borrow" because of their plight? I've seen quite a bit of the "dumpster diving", as Don puts it. Some of the addicts will do anything for their next fix, to include armed robbery, but some of the street people appear to be honest. Maybe those folks have me snowed. It doesn't take long for the officers to know which street people steal and commit crimes. RT> I have a tad of a problem here. I'm not uncharitable... not at all, RT> but when someone _chooses_ to live a particular lifestyle, it behooves RT> him to _support_ that lifestyle. I think maybe that is what Charles RT> meant by "responsibility". Charles clarified that in another message, he was talking about responsibility to family. I realize that both of us are still talking about the person who lives on the street by choice, and that does make a difference. Don pointed out that some of the family situations were so bad that he could understand the choice of the street. I think that Don pointed out a large variety of reasons and conditions that would put someone on the street, and many by choice. There are some street people in my city that seldom ever cause anyone a problem, and there are others who cause daily problems. There are lots of ways to become unpopular fairly quickly (i.e. scaring customers, using sidewalks as restrooms, panhandling, etc.). I like to live and let live whenever possible. I offer information about shelter, food, and other forms of assistance. I might also add that some street people become very good sources of information for serious criminal offenses. I have very mixed emotions about street people because of the vast assortment of reasons for their plight, as Don pointed out. I would still be one of those who would try to help someone who really didn't deserve much help. I certainly understand the thoughts of others. I might add that I help with food, clothes, and not their booze or dope. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Shoplifters with the runs always take Clepto Bismol. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00062 Date: 03/08/98 From: PAUL HARNEY Time: 06:01am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: RULES The following are the official rules of the ASKACOP conference. The rules of this conference are a living document. They will change as we change and grow as we grow. I will always remain open to ideas echo participants have regarding the rules of this conference. These should be submitted to me via NETMAIL only at my FidoNet address 1:2630/221 or via one of my two Internet address, pharney@cjbbs.com or pharney@metronj.org. The moderators of this conference are: Paul Harney 1:2630/221 Moderator Tom Rightmer 1:385/20 Co-Modertor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. REAL names are preferred in this echo. If your BBS software will not allow you to change your name, then think about signing your real name to your messages. If you are using an pseudonym and a problem arises and I attempt to reach out for you but can not contact you due to the use of the pseudonym, your access may be forfeit. Please make sure your SysOp knows how to find you by your pseudonym. 2. No profanity. It is not required to make your point known. 3. No flames or inflammatory posts. Being topically controversial is one thing but when the line is crossed and controversial becomes a deliberate attempt to raise the sensitivity of others, warnings will be forth coming. Continued violations will get the violator's conference privileges revoked for a period of time suitable for the violation. This at the discretion of the Moderator. Personal attacks on fellow conference members are neither needed, sought, nor tolerated. 4. Personal disagreements will be taken to Netmail by participants. If Netmail is unavailable to the participants, the argument will be dropped. 5. Violations of conference rules will generate a polite response in the echo for a first offense. A second offense will, where possible, result in a NetMail warning being issued to the violator and the SysOp of the originating system. Further violations will result in potential loss of conference privileges, as determined by the moderator. System turn around, where applicable and recognizable, will be considered in such cases. Please be advised that there are certain Red Flag violations that fall under common sense guidelines that can get a user's access cut immediately, for instance the use of this echo to promote illegal activity, ie, the pandering of contraband like kiddie porn, etc. 6. Discussions are to remain within the topic of the conference. The moderator will be the sole judge of what is and is not on topic. Subjects that easily fall outside the realm of the topic, ie drug laws and fire arms topics WILL be kept to how they are DIRECTLY effected by ENFORCEMENT of the law. Please remember, LEO's are law enforcers, not law makers. The moderator will make all attempts to keep the conference open but if a string is declared off topic, all conference members are expected to concede the issue and take all additional commentary to NETMAIL. 7. Response to Moderators' messages will be made by NETMAIL only, response will not be made in the echo. Discussions dealing with the moderation of this conference are off topic within the conference itself. As stated above, I am open to discussions on the conference's rules [when done in netmail] and have already changed them more then once due to input from the conference's users, for instance, pseudonyms didn't use to be allowed in the conference. If you disagree with the rules in some way, and I find your presentation and reasons to be sound, it may very well happen again. TO ALL ASKACOP PARTICIPANTS: This conference is dedicated to the exchange of information between law enforcement professionals and the public they protect and serve. The current moderator of this conference is Paul Harney. I can be reached at 1:2630/321. However, the guy to call first is Tom Rightmer, at 1:385/20 as Tom is responsible for the day to day moderation of this conference. Policy is to try and maintain as open a conference as possible so as to allow for maximum exchange of information, while still maintaining the conference's topical integrity. Please assist in this endeavor by keeping your posts on topic and valuing the right of your fellow conference members to have an opinion, if not the opinion itself. If you have questions I or Tom am always available via Netmail to be of any assistance I can. If you want to introduce a topic you think is important but aren't sure as to its topicity, then NETMAIL me with your idea and we'll work on it together. I am also open to well thought out suggestions regarding the conference and how it might be improved. Rants though are appended to file >NULL. I very much consider this experiment in mutually beneficial communication to be a partnership we all have a stake in. Yours in that partnership, Paul H. Moderator --- Rise and be counted * Origin: (1:2630/321) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00063 Date: 03/08/98 From: JOHN F DAVIS Time: 12:12pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance CH>You make assumptions that might be accurate when you are talking of CH>yourself. However who is to say that some malicious student might CH>substitute something else for sugar? That is the schools concern. The lab is to say.... My complaint is not that they took action, But that they took action WITHOUT PROOF. Now sending the student to the principal's office UNDER ESCORT, may well have been the right thing to do, Perhaps even suspending him pending the outcome of testing on the sugar tablet (It was just what it claimed to be) But giving him a displinary suspension for violation of the ZERO DRUGS policy of the school......... Well... Let me put it differently..... Let's say I'm driving down the road and you stop me... You happen to notice a bag of white powder on the seat beside me so you take some action, INcluding confisicating the white powder. No do you jump right to the convicting me for possession of heroin or do you test the powdered egg white I just bought at the........ Well you get the idea (That is how I buy powdered egg white, IN very small amouments at the bulk food store, I use it to make "Glue" for gingebread houses) It could also be sugar, Flour, or any of a number of white powders Thus, You don't jump stright to the judge. You test the substance, And when the lab says "Egg White", Since I haven't attempted to pass it off as anything else, you apologize. This is NOT what the school did. They never submitted the suspected "drug" to the lab, so we will never know what's in it, unless we trust the boy who brought it in to the school. But they did treat him exactly like a CONVICTED felon.. Without trial Without proof and without the commission of a crime by other than themselves. That is my complaint. In the real world the police have to prove their case In the School world the gesteapho has no such requirement. * SLMR 2.1a * The birds have bills too, but they keep on singing!!! --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.03H1 * Origin: The Chessplayer's Forum (313)386-7054 (1:2410/278) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00064 Date: 03/08/98 From: RICH GRIEBEL Time: 09:48am \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: Police Recruits -> MSGID: 1:273/408@fidonet.org e2e03d89 -> RG>I just spent another week at the Academy renewing my Federal Hazmat -> >credentials. Got to view these Cadets for another week, perhaps our -> >exhaustive background wasn't exhaustive enough. We were almost -> shot... -> That's not a bad background investigation...........that's just -> poor aim. We were behind and below the range in a "safe" zone working on a cargo tank when we heard two ricochets. The first one hit the back of the tank, the second hit a fence post. There may have been more, but we didn't hang around to find out. Seems one of the Cadets, when doing a close in drill, fired three shots high, which struck a tree and were deflected down. Seems I can still run as fast as I did in the Academy training. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Kendra Communications, Everett WA (1:343/304) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3E00065 Date: 03/08/98 From: RICH GRIEBEL Time: 09:55am \/To: SCOTT MCQUILKIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Police Recruits -> MSGID: 1:157/427 00156fad -> Rich Griebel said to Scott Mcquilkin -> About: Police Recruits -> Dated: 03-06-98 22:02hrs * D.A.R.E., Is Life! -> -> -> Charles Hunter said to Rich Griebel -> -> Dated: 03-03-98 07:05hrs * D.A.R.E., Is Life! -> -> RG>Surprisingly there seems to be a problem finding applicants -> that can -> >pass the exhaustive background investigation too... -> -> CH> The fact that the investigation is exhaustive is a good thing. -> -> Yes..it is. -> -> Charles Hunter would never pass! -> RG> I have no doubt Mr. Hunter would probably pass such a background... -> Hmmm, Lets see... I'll send you all my personal Info via eMAIL and you -> can check me out, ok? -> I challenge Mr Hunter to do the same. First of all, I don't do backgrounds. Second, if you want to go through the background, apply to the Washington State Patrol to be a Trooper, go through all four phases of the testing which takes about 8 months. Also, before I go sending my personal information over the Internet, I'd be sure the person I'm sending it too isn't going to use it to my detriment. A smart person could use the information you sent me to really screw up your life. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Kendra Communications, Everett WA (1:343/304)