--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F2V00014 Date: 02/25/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 10:08pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 2 times) Subj: Progress MM> I was somewhat MM> surprised when I had to furnish not only my weapon but the vehicle MM> and insurance. Things have come a long way. I was very lucky compared to you. All I had to provide was the weapon. I got used uniforms and a very used police unit. Believe it or not, there are still places where the officer provides the car and the insurance. There is a lot of progress in many places, but there are many cities and towns that are close to broke, and they simply have to do the best they can. I've known officers who worked in situations like this and didn't complain, mainly because of the way the people treated them. One friend was given a place to stay and never had to worry about where his next meal came from. He worked for the town about 8 years and never complained about the 24/7 on call and almost non-existent salary. He was single though and loved it. You were married, and I understand why you couldn't afford it. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... Join Taglines Anonymous. We can help. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F2V00015 Date: 02/25/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 10:08pm \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 2 times) Subj: Humane Society MM> I have had several "regulars" that would "turn thwemselves in" for MM> crimes that they not only didn'y commit, but in fact never happened at MM> all. All for a cup of coffee or a few moments heat either in a MM> building or vehicle. Our society, in general, has taken care of dogs and cats fairly well. One way or another, most places find a way to treat people with some degree of humanity, even the ones who some may feel don't deserve much help. Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... California raisins murdered! Cereal killer suspected. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F2V00016 Date: 02/25/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 10:08pm \/To: STEVE AMBROSINI (Read 2 times) Subj: USE OF THIS ECHO SA> Well, this all depends on which side of the badge you are on. A few SA> months ago, I brought this conference on and gave access to my callers. SA> They didn't like the "Cops good, everyone else bad" attitudes. Some SA> LEOs here even came down very harsh on one of my callers. She sent me SA> a copy of the post. At fiest I thought it was a joke, then I realized SA> it was the old Officers VS Civilians attitude that seems to be so SA> prevelent int he field of law enforcement. I wouldn't have a clue regarding which message you might be talking about, but it might not even be a LEO who wrote the message. There have been several fairly heated discussions in this echo between non-LEOs. I really don't see much of the attitude here that you are talking about. I've seen the reverse of what you are talking about several times that finally resulted in a blunt reply. Did your caller provide you with copies of her messages that may have prompted the reply, or did you make some assumptions and jump to some conclusions? Tom Rightmer - A Victims' Rights Advocate ... If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F2V00017 Date: 02/26/98 From: CHARLES HUNTER Time: 12:26am \/To: MIKE MCCANN (Read 2 times) Subj: zero tolerance MM>Charles, for some reason I have seen some of your messages several times. I've begun to stutter, Mike. CHARLES HUNTER * 1st 2.00 #9124 * Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!!! --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0671 * Origin: AirPower Services www.airpower.com 610-259-2193 (1:273/408) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F2V00018 Date: 02/25/98 From: DON BOX Time: 06:16am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 2 times) Subj: THE NORM TR> DB> I might be a social renegade, and have even been accused of TR> being an DB> Anarchist (kinda like the term) but still believe in TR> the basics. TR> I think there are too many people who are comfortable, floating TR> along in the norm, and many of them don't even think very often. TR> Then along comes a guy like you who makes them think. Thanks Tom. To be honest, I kinda like floating along and being comfortable, though one can not say I'm definately in the "norm." My object IS to make people think, and hopefully evaluate their own perspective. Especially LEO, we're becoming a splintered society and focusing entirely on "sin laws" whereas the common person has no true right to even make decisions of a personal nature. Just to stir up some controversy: I noticed today while browsing the online San Francisco Chronicle the State of California is resurrecting some of the old statutory rape laws. Myself, being a child of the 60's, don't understand what the uproar is. Kids are "dooing it" for the most part, and have done so since the beginning of time. In Californa a 17 year old boy and his 16 year old girlfriend caught with their pants down will mean jail time for the boy... she 16/he 19 and he goes into the felony tank. Great! Can you imagine tossing an otherwise good kid into Chino or San Quentin for the crime of SEX... wonder what he'd be like when he got out? Fair for society? Naaaaa... but the legal system generates income from it! DB --- * RM 1.31 3089 * According to the Weather Channel, Hell just froze over... --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Computer One BBS (818) 763-0678 - bbsinfo@comp1.com (1:102/836.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3300000 Date: 02/26/98 From: RICH GRIEBEL Time: 08:02pm \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 1 times) Subj: RE: Felony Vehicle Stops On Feb 23, 1998 10:41am, RON TAYLOR wrote to RICH GRIEBEL: RG>>Common sense is extremely difficult to quantify and identify. RT> Common sense is usually pretty uncommon. :) I just got back from three days at the Academy. While there I got to observe about 25 new recruits going through some basic training before their sent to field assignments as Cadets. Either I'm getting old and cynical or they're getting younger, lack common sense and good judgement. I only hope we can beat it into them in the field before they go on to the Academy for Trooper training. ... Kendra.com - Internet for $14.95 a month --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Kendra Communications, Everett WA (1:343/304) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3300001 Date: 02/26/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 02:00pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: Teenage Smoking TR> I wrote an opinion on this violation to our Chief of Police. TR> I agree this is a serious health problem for teenagers, but TR> I don't believe that we should be using already stretched TR> police resources in dealing with this. It is my opinion this TR> matter should be handled by parents, not the police. If we TR> have any spare resources from time to time, I think they Wait a minute, Tom. Aren't you the one who is all for Zero Tolerance? If its against the law for teenagers to smoke shouldn't the cop on the street arrest every teenager he finds smoking? After Zero Tolerance means enforcing all the laws all the time. The cops should stop everyone they see smoking that doesn't look old enough and demand proof of age. No proof and off they go to jail until they can prove they are over age. See what I mean about turning the Zero Tolerance genie loose? Once it gets out of the bottle you don't know where its going. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3300002 Date: 02/26/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 02:09pm \/To: JOHN F DAVIS (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance JFD> Do we need ZERO tolerance... YES JFD> But we need it moderated by the reckognation of needs of JFD> indivigules If you allow for exceptions then you no longer have a Zero Tolerance program. You have a 0.0001 Tolerance program. I fought a quick hard battle with my local school. My daughter is asthmatic and needs to have her inhaler with her at all times. The school told me that she would have to keep it in the office. I asked them what would happen if she was out of the playground and went into an attack? They told me she'd have to jump though hoops before she could leave the playground to get her inhaler. I told them that was not acceptable and I wanted her to have it ON HER PERSON at all times. They told me that allowing students to carry DRUGS was against the rules. After a couple of nice tries of trying to explain things to them I gave up. I informed them that if my daughter was not allowed to carry it with her and she had an attack at school that required me to take her to a doctor they, every one from the school board members to the principal, would find themselves defendants in one he!! of a law suit and if I didn't wind up owning everything they had they would have to sell it to pay their legal fees. The next day I was informed that they were going to make an exception for my daughter. The next year the school board changed the policy so a kid could carry MEDICATION on their person if the school had a letter from a doctor saying it was necessary. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3300003 Date: 02/27/98 From: JOHN F DAVIS Time: 10:36am \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance TR>You are confusing "Zero Tolerance" with something that hasn't ever appened TR>and won't happen. You may also be confusing it with school policies. Zero TR>Tolerance does not change the law. If your state has .10 or higher for DUI TR>and .05 or higher for DWI, zero tolerance does nothing to change these TR>values. These values represent the law, and the values remain the same, TR>whatever they might be in your state. You are correct in that we have different ideas of what ZERO TOLERENCE means. To me it means that NO ___proscribed substance___ is tolerated for any reason. This is how the Goverment's leaders advertise it (however I can see where you could change "proscribed substance" to "proscribed activity" and then I think I'd have your defination. Really closer to agrement than it appears. However as to it being something that hasn't ever happened. I'm diabetic I chat with diabetics the world around I have one corospondent who told of doing her insulin injection before class. The teacher knew she was diabetic, (She's an adult by the way) but a security guard went ballistic, Seems the school has a ZERO TOLERANCE policy and even though Insulin is not a drug (it's a hormone) and does not require a prescription (in most states, including hers) they threatened her with expulsion from the adult ed program should she ever bring in another vial of insulin and/or a syringe A diabetic student was suspended for giving another student a GLUCO-TAB GLUCO-TAB is a fancy name for.... SUGAR CUBE by the way. So, not only has it happened... It is happen even as I type. Another example of ZERO TOLERANCE gone overboard. One school has a ZERO TOLERANCE policy on sexual harrassment. So, when a 3rd grader KISSED another 3rd grader AT THE REQUEST OF THE SECOND STUDENT! They suspended him for sexual harrassment in that he had engaged another in sexual contact with out first getting permission SHE ASKED HIM TO DO IT!!!!!!!! (Thus giving permission) but still they suspended him. It happens. Espically in schools. And that's where next year's citizens are sitting as I type this... In schools, Learning the hard way in many cases. * SLMR 2.1a * I still have a full deck; I just shuffle slower now. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.03H1 * Origin: The Chessplayer's Forum (313)386-7054 (1:2410/278) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F3300004 Date: 02/27/98 From: JOHN F DAVIS Time: 10:36am \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: zero tolerance CH>In tablet form, how could that student KNOW that it was in fact CH>only sugar? I don't think students should be giving other students CH>any substances at all. Trust me here Charles... I know what is in each and every tablet I take I have to... To do otherwise is suicide. To a diabetic who is hypoglycemic at the moment that gluco tab had better well contain glucose or he's a dead duck. Thus... The student GIVING the tab, knew exactly what it was, And likely told the other student it was nothign but sugar. Yet they also likely sell the very well named "Lifesavers" candy in the school candy machine. Oh yes... Someone said that the concern was that the diabetic student had doused the gluco-tab with some drug. Well... If he were going to do that he'd do better to visit the staff lounge and douse the sugar for their coffee. (not to mention that to the diabetic accidently taking the wrong tablet is not good so he'd have to be too stupid to live in order to do that, a phrase that really applies to diabetics... There are no stupid diabetics, At least not for long) * SLMR 2.1a * 1 Lawyer + 1 Godfather = An offer you can't understand. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.03H1 * Origin: The Chessplayer's Forum (313)386-7054 (1:2410/278)