--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00019 Date: 01/22/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 05:08pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: Censorship CH> You opened the can of worms; Tom. Tell us which side you would AGREE I already did, and I gave examples in several messages if you will remember. One example was THE BOMB, and that was only slightly controversial. Another example was KIDDIE PORN, and there didn't appear to be much controversy there at all. Several other examples were discussed. The bottom line is that I would agree with REASONABLE censorship. Now, I know that you are going to ask for the definition of "REASONABLE", right? I don't know if I have the ime or the energy to do that properly, but I'll give you a two cent definition. I would simply say that each item should be investigated separately and measured against a set of standards involving rights, safety, and decency. Now you have my two cent definition, but I'm sure that you could fill several large buildings with books and materials pertaining to this subject. Tom Rightmer - Victims' Rights Advocate ... Twinkies have a half-life, but Velveeta is eternal. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00020 Date: 01/22/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 05:08pm \/To: RD THOMPSON (Read 1 times) Subj: Censorship RT> Who makes that distinction? You? Me? How about the farm boy who RT> learns from his father how to blow stumps with ANFO? The only RT> difference between a stump and OKC is the amount. Good point. Any attempted solution would involve many tough questions. I'm not a farmer, so I don't know much about fertilizer or the quantities involved in farming. My first thoughts would be from a dumb city boy's perspective, could we require identification and a record of certain large purchases? Tom Rightmer - Victims' Rights Advocate ... A problem can be found for almost every solution. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00021 Date: 01/22/98 From: TOM RIGHTMER Time: 05:08pm \/To: CHRISTOPHER COYNE (Read 1 times) Subj: Censorship CC> Okay, let me stop this right here. Please remember we just got CC> through with a flame war. All it did was make a lot of people bitter CC> and upset. You sure you wanrt to go through that again? Good point, I used a poor example. The subject is dropped. Tom Rightmer - Victims' Rights Advocate ... Keyboard not connected, press to continue. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: 357 MAGNUM *Lawton, OK* 405-536-5032 (1:385/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00022 Date: 01/21/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 08:23pm \/To: TOM RIGHTMER (Read 1 times) Subj: Federal Law & Kiddie Porn RW> Why? I feel it, like murder and other crimes, are a local issue RW> and should be dealt with local laws. The feds have used the RW> interstate commerce clause of the Constitution to make a lot of RW> things into federal crimes. TR> Many jurisdictional problems are solved with Federal Law. TR> You should not be able to run across a state line and avoid TR> prosecution, and this was one of the first reasons for TR> Federal Law. We still have a few extradition problems, but TR> most jurisdictional problems are solved with Federal Law. Depending on your crime and where you commit it you still can. There have been several criminals caught in other jurisdictions and have been released because the state/city with the warrant won't pay to transport. I have never heard of any of these cases being turned over to the FBI. TR> Some of the more common and first crimes which were TR> Federalized were bank robbery and kidnapping. Criminals Banks robbery was added because the banking business in under federal control. Kidnapping was added for nothing more then political reasons. The reasoning used was kidnappers usually crossed state lines and therefore the FBI was needed. But if you look at any of the crime statistics you see that very few kidnappers ever cross state lines, at least at the time of the law was passed. TR> would love it if you localized the law. No the federal government loves having control on and of local law enforcement. The feds love having control on all kinds of state/local government. I have heard rumors of the feds using the threat of cutting a LEA's access to NCIC to force them to 'play ball'. And we all remember how 55 mph speed limit, the 21 y.o. drinking age and mandatory seat belting became nation wide laws even though the federal government had no authority to make such laws. In case you don't it was because the federal government told the states if they didn't have these laws they, the state, would not get any federal highway funds. Which is the same basic way that the federal government controls your local schools. You don't play by their rules you don't get any federal money. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00023 Date: 01/21/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 08:45pm \/To: RD THOMPSON (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Censorship CC> Another senario. There is a major spill. There is a sign CC> over the spill. However, a person chooses to act like an CC> idiot, run through the resturaunt therefore slipping and CC> busting his/her head. Should he/she be able to sue? RT> scenario, if the signs are properly in place regarding the RT> wet floor and someone neglects to heed them, they are at RT> fault. The key is the signs being properly in place so that RT> they are readily seen from any angle of approach. There is another thing to consider in this. That is whether or not the restaurant is attempting to remove the spill. If they are making a good faith effort to remove the hazard and the hazard is well marked then there should be no grounds for the suit. If either of these are missing there might be grounds. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00024 Date: 01/21/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 08:48pm \/To: CHRISTOPHER COYNE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Censorship CC> Okay, I won't dispute that, but I would've probably had the CC> attitude to. She didn't use proper caution. How far are we CC> willing to take this. A totally fenced off train tressel CC> this could happen to. Somebody decides it's a good CC> shortcut, getstheir foot caught on the ties, and they get CC> hit by a train. The guy didn't use common sense OR proper CC> caution, but the guy somehow survives and sues the pants off CC> the railroad company. The train company's not carging him CC> with tresspassing. You see where I'm going? Also, do you CC> honestly think her winning the coffee case because she was CC> 83? If she had been 21, do you think she would've won? CC> I can research it in the library, but I think I'd have CC> better chances (sinse my library doesn't even have a CC> criss-cross directory) asking my manager about it. I don't know if you know it or not but your train thing has happened and, as they say, truth is stranger then fiction. The case, as I can remember it, follows. I think the story comes from Chicago but I could be wrong but. . . A drunk man climbs a fence, forces his way through a board fence and climbs on to the train tracks and starts walking. After a while he felt the need to void his bladder and stopped and started doing so. Unfortunately for him he was standing on one rail and aimed his stream at the 'third' rail (the one carrying the electricity that runs the train). Well, as any farm boy who has every talked his city cousin in to doing a similar thing to an electric fence knows, urine is a very good electrical conductor. The man is killed. Family of man sues the transit company for not providing 'adequate' protection of the tracks from drunks. Jury sees poor widow, and I think kids, on one side and the city of Chicago on the other and decides that the widow needs money more then the city. And ipso facto, a multi-million award. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00025 Date: 01/21/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 09:05pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: Censorship RW>Tom can you site me where a snuff film has been >'authenticated'? I the last I read/saw about them the >researchers had never found one that wasn't fake. CH> If you make some inquiries with LAPD or LASO you might find CH> that they have had some. I think our definition are different. I always considered snuff films as films showing killings for entertainment purposes. Not just video tapes of crimes. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00026 Date: 01/21/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 09:09pm \/To: CHARLES HUNTER (Read 1 times) Subj: Censorship >served at to produce its fullest flavor.This temperature is approximately 30 >degrees hotter than other places, if I remember my research correctly. CH> Obviously, the Coffee Institute of America gave McDonald's CH> advice on how to make its' coffee CH> tastier................but failed to give due regard to the CH> dangers that temperature presented to the public and that CH> little old lady. McDonald's goal was to make more money CH> without regard to safety....IMHO. I was always taught that the water for the coffee had to be 180 F +/- 5 F for the best flavor. AAMOF, the Bunn guys used to set them for that temp. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00027 Date: 01/21/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 09:13pm \/To: RICH GRIEBEL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Home Security -> BTW, did they try the 'all good guys' scenario? I have -> always wanted to try that with a high tech set up. RG> Nope, there was always at least one bad guy... Too bad. I think there would have been at one trainer with a sadistic streak. -> There was several articles some time ago about handgun -> rounds that were designed to penetrate soft body armor, -> provide fairly good tissue damage and did not over RG> Actually, most body armor won't stop a 22LR... News to me. I know that a 22LR will penetrate more layers of the vest but it'd have to be a really thin vest to not to stop it. I think anything over a level I vest should stop it. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 198 ASK A COP Ref: F1S00028 Date: 01/21/98 From: RICH WILLBANKS Time: 09:20pm \/To: ALAN RACKMILL (Read 1 times) Subj: Censorship RW> I think "ploy" is the wrong word. To be a ploy it RW> would have to be a planned event. I'd say that it was RW> just a very good bit of propaganda by the British and RW> pro-British forces. AR> The "ploy" was not on the part of the British. AR> The US govt wanted to get involved, but wanted(needed) to AR> have an incident of some type so that the general populace AR> would agree that the getting into it was correct thing to AR> do. Accurately most people in the government at the time were strong isolationist. They wanted nothing to do with a 'foreign' war. AAMOF, the Sec of State resigned when Wilson started losing his neutrality leanings. It was the press that whipped up the people. Remember: Freedom isn't Free! --- timEd-B11 * Origin: My BBS * Dover, TN * (1:379/301.1)