--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFL00000 Date: 11/15/96 From: GARY SAFFER Time: 08:42am \/To: TOM PATIERNO (Read 1 times) Subj: Expiration Warning TP>You may be getting the job, Gary. I am netmailing to Mr. Mohrbacher TP>to see what the score is about having a co- moderator, if he's not TP>willing to give it up totally. I'll be in touch with the TP>particulars... TP>Warm regards, TP>Tom Patierno Thanks Tom, I haven't seen much of any moderator, which is not a problem since overall everyone is pretty well behaved here. However, if it the listing expiring means that the echo might die, then someone has to step in. Gary * CMPQwk 1.42 129 *Wagner's music is better than it sounds. - Twain --- GEcho1.20/Pro/TriBBS * Origin: The Ham Shack, Brockton, MA 508-588-6242 (1:101/515) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFL00001 Date: 11/15/96 From: GARY SAFFER Time: 08:44am \/To: LOU OLIVEIRA (Read 1 times) Subj: Hhnk LO> I think that you and I are thinking along the same lines, but LO>just expressing it differently. As for the notion that "if you wrote LO>it you did it": if someone does it often enough, people will start to LO>notice and that person better watch out. That's falsifying a medical LO>record - other than being illegal, Lou, I actually meant that as a joke, as denoted by the emoticon after the comment. Gary * CMPQwk 1.42 129 *ROM BIOS Error: Press to continue... --- GEcho1.20/Pro/TriBBS * Origin: The Ham Shack, Brockton, MA 508-588-6242 (1:101/515) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFN00000 Date: 11/11/96 From: CHRIS NOLD Time: 01:59am \/To: JOE PATTERSON (Read 1 times) Subj: Test Yup. Looks good here in Dallas, Texas. Chris --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Rowlett PD CrimeStoppers BBS (214)412-6262 (1:124/3152.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFN00001 Date: 11/11/96 From: CHRIS NOLD Time: 02:02am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: 12 lead... Has anyone out there used a Hewlett Packard (sp?) 12 EKG/monitor? I was looking at one the other day...I would really like some responses on durability, battery life, portability, etc. Thanks in advance.. Chris. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Rowlett PD CrimeStoppers BBS (214)412-6262 (1:124/3152.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFN00002 Date: 11/11/96 From: JAMES NOLD Time: 03:35pm \/To: TOM PATIERNO (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: RE: RE: UNIONS -> Hey, Gary Saffer! Remember the message about RE: RE: UNIONS? -> You said to Tom Patierno on 03 Nov 96 10:25:00... -> -> GS> TP>CN> I heard that a physician was giving talks at EMS -> conventions that -> GS> TP>CN> paramedics are having no good effect at saving lives, and -> -> GS> TP>motivating this man to talk this way. I can show you where -> GS> TP>Electrocardioversion and a round of drugs have saved quite a -> GS> TP>individuals, and all prehospital. Who hires this chooch to t -> GS> TP>the EMS conventions in the first place? >:-( -> GS> -> GS> This was this DR's opinion, and his only. What he says is that th -> GS> a lack of hard data to support pre hospital ALS. However, there i -> GS> a lack of data to say that it doesn't work. It doesn't seem that -> GS> many people share his opinion. -> -> If advanced prehospital care doesn't have to have such advanced -> training to do -> any bit of good, why in the world have haospitals spent so much $$$ -> getting helicoptors with nurses, Dr.s, etc, to respond to calls ? -> An entire system of individuals are available to render care ASAP -> and to the extent of the level of their training. -> Jumpin' Jehosaphat! The VeitNam war demonstrated that more training -> in the field resulted in fewer casualties, less morbidity, from -> potentially life- -> threatening wounds. -> Call me a cynic, but my feeling is that, as more and more HMO's start -> putting accountability for $$$ spent on Dr.'s, nurses, and -> hospitals, they will typically point to ways to cut the costs of -> medical care. Noticing that the prehospital care givers are the -> first to have the fingers pointed at them isn't surprising, but is -> aggrevating. Gary, ever notice in an -> institutional setting that, as cuts start being talked about, -> everyone starts -> showing how they are indispensible, and how others are not as -> essential? I think that the good Dr. is reflecting on ways for his -> (and his colleagues) economic survival, and not necessarily on -> better patient care. -> -> Regards, -> Tom Patierno -> -> --- Renegade v4-05 Exp -> * Origin: HomeSpun BBS and EMS education... (1:141/760 I am very short one time but I wanted to say this. I feel due to HMO, we will see the patient being treated at home and then staying at home. Home Health is BIG and getting bigger. It may not be the Paramedics doing this, maybe the doctor will be in the box soon and will return to making house calls. Paramedics will then become a "first responder" type of worker. They will report the S&S and the doctor will then determian if they need to respond or not. The doctors are riding out in Mexico.... James Nold EMT-P and proud father of a new baby boy, 8lbs, 21 inches, born 11-9-96 !! --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Rowlett PD CrimeStoppers BBS (214)412-6262 (1:124/3152.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFN00003 Date: 11/15/96 From: JAMES NOLD Time: 11:35pm \/To: MIKE SMITH (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Emerg Vehicle Crashes -> JN> -> JN> I have some pictures of crashed ambulances if they might help. T -> JN>are recent. -> JN> -> JN> James Nold EMT-P -> JN> -> JN>--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 -> JN> * Origin: Rowlett PD CrimeStoppers BBS (214)412-6262 -> (1:124/3152.0)THANKS JAMES, PLEASE SEND ME WHAT YOU HAVE IF YOU DO NO -> MIND SHARING!! I NEED SOME GOOD PICTURES TO MAKE SOME SLIDES. LOOK -> FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU. PLEASE MAIL TO THE ADDRESS. THANKS. -> -> --- RBBSMail v18.1 -> * Origin: The North Carolina EMS BBS Salisbury NC (704) 637-6906 -> (1:379/308.0) I'll try to find them and send then asap, it might take some time. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Rowlett PD CrimeStoppers BBS (214)412-6262 (1:124/3152.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFN00004 Date: 11/17/96 From: TOM PATIERNO Time: 08:44am \/To: MIKE SMITH (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Re: Unions Hey, Mike Smith! Remember the message about Re: Re: Unions? You said to Chris Nold on 12 Nov 96 17:32:02... MS> CN>-> CN> I heard that a physician was giving talks at EMS conventions MS> CN>that MS> CN>-> CN> paramedics are having no good effect at saving lives, and MS> CN>-> recommends CN> that EMTs are all that's needed. Seems we need to go MS> CN>-> back to the CN> load'n'go days of the dinosaurs..go figure. I guess MS> CN>-> that's being CN> considered non-essential... MS> (1:124/3152.0)He is probably saying this because we in EMS have not done MS> a lot of research and data collection to show or prove anything. We know MS> we are making a difference, we see it, but we can't prove it. We are Let me put it to you another way. If the days of "load and go" are what this Dr. is preaching, then why staff a helicoptor with Respiratory therepist, flight nurse, and all the bells and whistles that go with it? Because the truth of the matter is that more training pre- hospital DOES save lives. Why else would there be all these air ambulances with their full contigent of RN's, etc, etc, when "all they need are EMT's to load 'em and go". If these hypocrits of medicine put their money where their mouth was, the RN's, respiratory therapists, etc, would be sitting behind a desk, charting their hearts out, and you'd be "EMT'ing" at 3,000 feet. Golly gee! Just think of all the money they'd save for their hospitals/ insurance companies! The bottom line is that the professional medical profession realize that prehospital medicine is a necessary evil. Since there is not a big voice for the prehospital care pros, expect to be saddled with all sorts of insane edicts from Dr.s like this. There are, indeed, many statistics that show hat advanced prehospital training will increase the viability of patients that make it to a hospital, over having one "load and go." The hospitals know it- the medical community is banking on the deification of these Dr's. to ullsh!t the rest of us that being stupider is better. Don't buy it. Regards, Tom Patierno --- Renegade v4-05 Exp * Origin: HomeSpun BBS and EMS education... (1:141/760) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFN00005 Date: 11/17/96 From: TOM PATIERNO Time: 08:47am \/To: GARY SAFFER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Hhnk Hey, Gary Saffer! Remember the message about Hhnk? You said to Lou Oliveira on 15 Nov 96 08:44:00... GS> LO>just expressing it differently. As for the notion that "if you wrote GS> LO>it you did it": if someone does it often enough, people will start to GS> LO>notice and that person better watch out. That's falsifying a medical GS> LO>record - other than being illegal, GS> GS> Lou, I actually meant that as a joke, as denoted by the emoticon after GS> the comment. So, who called the lawyewr? ;-> Regards, Tom P --- Renegade v4-05 Exp * Origin: HomeSpun BBS and EMS education... (1:141/760) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFN00006 Date: 11/18/96 From: STEPHAN GASCON Time: 05:20am \/To: MIKE SMITH (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Emerg Vehicle Crashes Could you remove your "CapsLock" when you type. On e-mail, it's considered shouting and not proper. It's also harder to read. THANKS :-) --- * OLX 2.1 TD * Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: STAT! Medical BBS - (514) 279-5145 HST/V.34 - (1:167/100.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DFN00007 Date: 11/19/96 From: TOM PATIERNO Time: 12:35am \/To: CHRIS NOLD (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Unions Hey, Tom Patierno!, Chris Nold was discussing Re: Unions with Tom Patierno : CN> What state do you work in? I don't think there are any EMS unions here CN> in Texas. It would be a major event if one began. I could be wrong on CN> there being no EMS unions here, though.... Connecticut. I work for the State of CT in a Health Care Union, and am an EMT-I for the ambulance at the facility I work at. The Union I have has an "EMS Dividion" to which Professional Ambulance of Hartford was affiliated with, as was New Haven Ambulance, until they were aquired by AMR. EMS is going through growing pains, as did the fire services of long ago. For instance, an untrained, high school diploma'd entry level health care worker in the Union will start at about $12.00 per hour. (No training, no special skills) The company will train them, and after their 6 month probation period, they will increase their income per hour at about 5% (or 0.60 per hour) every year. They will "max out" at about $18.00 per hour fter 10 pay increases. There is also the COLA that occurs mid year, negotiated from 4 to 8 % each year. So, an unskilled health care worker in the Union will receive 2 raises per year, and they can remain at the Level 1 position s long as they'd like. There are many Worker levels recognised by the Union (Health care worker 1, HCW 2, HCW 3, Supervisor 1, Supervisor 2, etc.). An EMT (Basic Level) has the same skill level as a worker 2 in the Union, which is about $14.00 per hour. The EMT-I is about at the mid- point of the Worker 2 level ($17.60/hr) and the paramedic is at the worker 2 1/2 level (18.40/hr.) The LPN is equal to the Worker 3 level (about 19.00/hr) the RN make about $40,000 to 60,000 per year, in the Union. These are roughly -starting- salaries, remember, their are 10 - 5% increases every year before you're "max'ed out". Ask yourself- do you think the Union has helped these workers, or hurt them? Oh, yes, the EMT receives a "retention bonus" each year of $425, in addition to their regular salary, to stay certified as an EMT. (on or about the first pay period of December). Not to mention negotiated work rules, addressing greivances, and clearly outlined job descriptions and disciplinary policies. Unions can help workers. Seeing as Dr.'s have the AMA, Police have the FOP, and fire fighters have IAFF, etc., it can only be a matter of time efore Unions come to EMS.t Regards, Tom Patierno --- Renegade v4-05 Exp * Origin: CT'S *OFFICIAL* North West Regional EMS BBS (1:141/1280)