--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DDW00015 Date: 09/24/96 From: DICK ADAMS Time: 08:55am \/To: BILL NEWMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Looking For Help Bill, Tell me more about your project. I am currently an EMT/P with 10 years EMS experience. I am in the process of completing a B. S. Degree in EMS and anticipate graduation in May 1997. In addition to being a paramedic, I am also a police officer. I might be interested in assisting you. Let me hear from you, Dick Adams EMT/P DFW Airport Department of Public Safety --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Rowlett PD CrimeStoppers BBS (214)412-6262 (1:124/3152.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DDW00016 Date: 09/26/96 From: JAMES NOLD Time: 05:25pm \/To: ED MCCARTHY (Read 1 times) Subj: EMS pay -> Jim, Come to Boston. BLS starts at almost fifteen an hour. You -> have to start as BLS, and pass internal exams for ALS positions. The -> benefits are great, the Union is very active, and supportive of the -> membership. And, if that weren't enough, we're also hiring new -> people. Thought it might be worth an inquiry. -> -> --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 -> * Origin: Big City BBS (1:101/590.0) Thanks, I'm going to nursing school at Tulsa, don't know if I could be in the union.... Jim --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Rowlett PD CrimeStoppers BBS (214)412-6262 (1:124/3152.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DDX00000 Date: 09/30/96 From: BILL NEWMAN Time: 06:40pm \/To: ERIC DRAGA (Read 1 times) Subj: Looking For Help On (29 Sep 96) Eric Draga wrote to Bill Newman... ED> *** Quoting Bill Newman to All dated 09-22-96 *** ED> > Hi All, ED> > ED> > I am starting a new echo called EMERG_MANAGE it's full title ED> > being "Emergency Management". It is an information echo on all ED> > aspect of emergency management. ED> > ED> I would be happy to help but i need more info you can send net ED> mail to 1 :139/970 untill i get my own private node.for now I ED> am only a user on a local BBS. But please let me Know what all ED> kind of help you need and where we need to poll from. ED> Eric Draga MFR CPR Instructor Clark township volunteer ED> Amb.corps. What I need right now is to have your sysop ask his regional coordinator to request the above echo to be added to the backbone. After it is on the backbone I will be asking people from different aspects of fire, EMS, police, and other disaster relief and planning to post both questions and information to the echo. Once I have three RCs request the echo to be added to the backbone then depending on the time of the month it will be about three weeks before it is really going. Currently it would be November before you would probably see anything much out in your area. The first of each month is when the new echos get added to the backbone. Hope to be hearing from you on the echo when it gets started, Bill Rochester, NY wtnewman@rochgte.fidonet.org --- PPoint 2.00 * Origin: Bill Newman, Salvation_Army Moderator (1:2613/404.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DDX00001 Date: 09/30/96 From: GARY SAFFER Time: 12:16pm \/To: BLAKE BOWERS (Read 1 times) Subj: COMPLAINTS JJ>BB} JJ> Thats a rather interesting view of that show... I never JJ>BB} JJ> thought of that show actually _hurting_ emergency services JJ>BB} JJ> like that... JJ>BB}Yep. IMHO, it is the reason there are just so many people in the JJ>BB}field. JJ>BB}A glut of people, many employers can pay smaller amounts. JJ>BB} JJ> I must say, that's a VERY interesting opinion... JJ>BB}I am known for those....(G) Personally, I think it is because it is so easy to become an EMT, that the labor pool is so much bigger than the demand that it is a buyers (employer's) market. If it took longer, and the requirements were more stringent, and maybe cost more, there would be fewer EMTs and salaries could be higher. Gary CMPQwk 1.42 129 It is easier to be critical than to be correct. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: 6-200 (1:101/460) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DE200000 Date: 09/30/96 From: BLAKE BOWERS Time: 09:00pm \/To: GARY SAFFER (Read 1 times) Subj: COMPLAINTS GS> Personally, I think it is because it is so easy to become an EMT, that GS> the labor pool is so much bigger than the demand that it is a buyers GS> (employer's) market. If it took longer, and the requirements were more GS> stringent, and maybe cost more, there would be fewer EMTs and salaries GS> could be higher. Agreed, but my point was that the job was glamorized by shows such as EMERGENCY!, which led to the above. IMHO, of course. So where you been hiding???? --- PPoint 1.98 * Origin: KD4RME, The POINT of it all.... (1:284/99.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DE200001 Date: 09/30/96 From: FRANK ARNOLD Time: 01:46am \/To: BLAKE BOWERS (Read 1 times) Subj: complaints BB>It helped also, however, to glorify the field, sending scads of people BB>to sign up for EMT classes. BB>Too many people, has hurt the field greatly. What how can this be? Every state has guidelines that an EMT has to met to get licensed. The standard of care is being met, granted there will be great providers, and mediocre ones. There are only so many positions available at any one service no employer is going to inundate himself with people that he can not use. BB>A glut of people, employers can pay less This is a very specious argument, it seems like hiring new providers at 50% of the wages is cost saving, however having to train them and weed out the ones that can't cut it not to mention the liability involved. It is much easier to keep the old pros than get new ones. A lot of the cost cutting is the result of insurance that would not pay. HMO's are really bad for this if some accountant feels that it was not an emergency than they just won't foot the bill. Ultimately is started with abuse by the public I'm sure we all have had runs that were nothing more that cab service for the patient. I have not been in EMS for long but in other fields I have had to hire and fire and lot of people untill the right one came along. Once you find that employee you stick with them. --- SLMR 2.1a If Windows sucked it would be good for something. --- T.A.G. 2.7c Standard * Origin: The Edge of Sanity * Hessel MI (1:139/970) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DE200002 Date: 10/01/96 From: TOM PATIERNO Time: 03:47pm \/To: MIKE BOUSER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Unions Hey, Mike Bouser! Remember the message about Re: Unions? You said to Tom Patierno on 27 Sep 96 22:48:44... MB> Hey, MB> Thanks for the reply. You have some info I hadn't been exposed to. MB> still have to wonder, though, if a union would help change the laws governi MB> the safety of the EMT. It doesn't seem fair to say a FF or LEO's life is mo MB> important than an EMT. As far as forcible entry, that also seems like someo MB> isn't thinking with their brains. I guess you could call it a anal-cerebral MB> inversion. From what I've seen of unions, the biggest boon would be the pay MB> thing. How much is someone's life worth? Someone needs to be working with MB> public to make these facts more widely known. Maybe campaign even. Find a MB> politician who's bored, I guess. Yes, the Unions -can- change the way the Laws are written. Union dues ay for political action (PAC's) and write contract language that mandates such things as minimum staffing, training, and work rules. For instance, the IAFF has written in it's contract language that an engine company will have 5 men on board, even though many responding engine companies have less that that number. They have separate investigatory arms independant of the police department that investigate fires, have standards for uniforms and gear used in the performance of their duties (NOMEX is standard issue for protective equipment for IAFF union members, volunteer and/or non-IAFF services don't have to have this equipment.). Police Unions have pressured legislators and regulators to allow for more vague and arbitrary "dynamic entry" justification, have pressured for protective custody rules that allow handcuffing any and -all- individuals hat could, in the officers opinion, impede the invesitgation or pose a possible safety problem for the officer. In Connecticut, it is standard proceedure to handcuff -all- individuals stopped for traffic violations (!) after 7pm in towns such as Wallingford, CT, Enfield, CT, and others, because of the "possibility of danger existing for the individual and the officer". Pennsylvania police were not reprimanded in any way for arresting 2 EMT's that,based on their medical opinion, chose to transport a woman, at her request, that was sexually assualted to the hospital, rather than returning her to the crime scene to identify a possible suspect. The ambulance was 10 minutes en route to the hospital, BTW. The EMT's really have no recourse but to report the incident to their employer, who will more than likely "bury" the incident, rather than press for regulatory or legislative action to forbid this type of occurance again. The regular workers need to have omeone that advocates for them and them alone, as do the police and fire Unions. MB> As far as the pay thing goes though, around here you almost can't g MB> hired by the county if you aren't at least EMT-IV. And then they want you t MB> promise to go to Paramedic School. That's not particularly bad except that MB> end up rushing through your education with little time to gain needed MB> experience in the field. I would rather have a veteran Intermediate work on MB> than a newby Paramedic with only a year or two of experience. I agree. If there was a Union, it would more than likely allow for a tiered setup of prehospital medicine, in which a dues- paying member can expect to have a certain amount of time "under his/her belt" before being promoted to paramedic. EMT's (BLS- type) could do things such as provide BLS care for the paramedic, since you can' do BLS without ALS. Or, if a person works as an EMT-I, they can work as one for a year before being pressured nto becoming a paramedic. If the turnover wasn't so bad, if the work rules weren't so vague and arbitrary, if the pay was half- way decent, then more would stay longer. Unions can push for things like this, as they have for the fire, police, and many health care agencies where Unions are. Regards, Tom Patierno --- Renegade v4-05 Exp * Origin: HomeSpun BBS and EMS education... (1:141/760) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DE200003 Date: 10/01/96 From: BLAKE BOWERS Time: 07:47am \/To: FRANK ARNOLD (Read 1 times) Subj: complaints FA> BB>Too many people, has hurt the field greatly. FA> What how can this be? Every state has guidelines that an EMT FA> has to met to get licensed. The standard of care is being met, Uh, no offense, to anyone that has gotten their basic EMT, but in most states, those standards are extremely minimal. Community colleges pumping out 3 classes of EMT's a quarter, the Military pumping out the "National Registry" classes, (That MANY states won't recognize) etc, bring on a glut. FA> granted there will be great providers, and mediocre ones. There FA> are only so many positions available at any one service no FA> employer is going to inundate himself with people that he can FA> not use. That is my point. There are only so many positions available, many more EMT's than those positions, common sense dictates the pay will be lower. Supply and demand, at work. FA> This is a very specious argument, it seems like hiring new providers FA> at 50% of the wages is cost saving, however having to train them FA> and weed out the ones that can't cut it not to mention the liability FA> involved. It is much easier to keep the old pros than get new In some instances, but take for instance many metropolition areas... Take for instance Nashville TN. Over a million daytime population. The EMS provider for Nashville/Davidson County is the Nashville Metropolition Davidson County Fire and Rescue. They are, without a doubt, the best paying ambulance service in the area. I forget the actual starting wage, but Larry can post that here. You have also, a number of private providers, that do the nursing home shuffle, body runs, etc. Those private providers pay little more than minimum wage for basic EMT's. The old pros work for a private at first, but end up at the FD, or a surrounding county. The privates can NOT match what the FD pays. But, there is always a fresh EMT willing to work for that low pay. (And I would not want my dog carried by the majority of private providers in middle TN) FA> along. Once you find that employee you stick with them. Only if it is financially viable. --- PPoint 1.98 * Origin: KD4RME, The POINT of it all.... (1:284/99.10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DE300000 Date: 10/01/96 From: JOE NICHOLSON Time: 11:10pm \/To: BILL NEWMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Looking For Help -=> Quoting Bill Newman to Eric Draga <=- BN> What I need right now is to have your sysop ask his regional BN> coordinator to request the above echo to be added to the backbone. Bill, the S.O. here has asked RC10 to make the request. BN> Once I have three RCs request the echo to be added to the Has that been changed again? Thought it was only two RC's. ... Firefighters are always in heat. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: 9-1-1 FF's LEO's OSHA COMMS (619) 669-0385 (1:202/911) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 197 EMERGENCY Ref: DE300001 Date: 10/02/96 From: TOM PATIERNO Time: 09:34am \/To: MIKE GLYNN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Unions Hey, Mike Glynn! Remember the message about Re: Unions? You said to Tom Patierno on 24 Sep 96 07:42:35... -> Could you tell me a bit about the I.A.E.P., please? I am a member -> of Health Care District 1199/SEIU, and they have been absolutely -> great in representing us State workers. MG> -> -> In Solidarity, -> Tom Patierno -> 1199/seiu MG> -> -> --- Renegade v4-05 Exp -> * Origin: HomeSpun BBS and EMS education... (1:141/760) MG> MG> Im sure you can get some info from them, not sure what kind of info i MG> can tell you, since i left over 2 years ago.. MG> MG> IAEP is located in Quincey Mass or they may have an 800 # If i come MG> accross it ill post it, but try dir. assistance for the #.. Thanks. I'll be in touch with them, only because our contracts are up for egotiation, and perhaps parity for EMS people is the buzzword.... Regards, Tom Patierno --- Renegade v4-05 Exp * Origin: HomeSpun BBS and EMS education... (1:141/760)