--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00007 Date: 02/12/98 From: JAY HANIG Time: 01:04am \/To: VINCE COEN (Read 0 times) Subj: News-023 10 Feb 98 19:29, Vince Coen wrote to Jim Sanders: JS>> MUNICH, Ger - Feb 7, 1998 3:43 p.m. EST -- Faced with Italian JS>> charges of U.S. foot-dragging, Defense Secretary William Cohen said JS>> Saturday he does not believe officials tampered with evidence on the JS>> Marine jet that brought down an Italian cable car loaded with JS>> skiers. VC> Pity the rest of us do .. A LTC who commanded one of the other squadrons that rotated between Cherry Point and Aviano was relieved of duty yesterday for telling his troops to destroy any evidence of their own possible wrongdoings. The commanding general "lost confidence in his ability to command". This is one black eye the Marines could have done without. I hope they don't end up shooting themselves in the foot as well. Jay --- GoldED/386 2.50+ * Origin: If It's Not Boeing, I'm Not Going. (1:379/41.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00008 Date: 02/11/98 From: JAY HANIG Time: 05:34pm \/To: ROBERT LINENWEBER (Read 0 times) Subj: News-023 10 Feb 98 21:43, Robert Linenweber wrote to Jim Sanders: JS>> I do not JS>> remember any Italians protesting the thousands of aircraft and JS>> millions of American men there in 1943, 44, & 45. RL> but they did seem a little miffed about it in 1942 .... I am reminded of the comments of a German villager listening to the roar of NATO tanks passing through town near the East German border: "That is the sound of freedom". Some sacrifices need to be endured to guarantee people's freedom. The occasional low level pass of a fighter aircraft is one of them. Personally, I find it a thrill, though I remember a fishing trip along the coast of North Carolina where I almost had a stroke: I had my head down in the ice chest digging around for a drink when a Marine F-4 snuck up behind me and passed off our starboard side maybe 30' off the deck and 100 feet to the side. "JESUS CHEE-RIST!" My father saw this fellow coming and didn't say a word in warning. Then he just about laughed himself off the boat. What a great guy. :) Jay --- GoldED/386 2.50+ * Origin: If It's Not Boeing, I'm Not Going. (1:379/41.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00009 Date: 02/11/98 From: JAY HANIG Time: 05:44pm \/To: JIM SANDERS (Read 0 times) Subj: news-005 09 Feb 98 12:05, Jim Sanders wrote to Christopher Tarana: JS> They can not spell and do not now history of last week.... No telling what else they don't now. Jay --- GoldED/386 2.50+ * Origin: If It's Not Boeing, I'm Not Going. (1:379/41.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00010 Date: 02/12/98 From: ELVIS HARGROVE Time: 02:44am \/To: ROB HAGEMAN (Read 0 times) Subj: News-023 -> I quote the entire article WHY? Everyone saw the whole thing before. This comes under the heading of EXCESSIVE quoting mentioned in the echo rules. ^..^ Moderator AVIATION --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00011 Date: 02/11/98 From: JIM DAWSON Time: 03:47pm \/To: JIM SANDERS (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: NEWS-007 Potentially bad one at ORD with the AAL B727 that struck the approach lights in heavy fog,Video clip looked like the gear was wiped out, the #1 engine broke off and maybe the fuselage broke behind the wing. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00012 Date: 02/10/98 From: JIM SANDERS Time: 08:51pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: News-029 Runaway American Airlines jet heavily damaged CHICAGO - Feb 10, 1998 10:00 a.m. EST - Passengers on an American Airlines jet felt lucky to be alive after the plane missed the run- way Monday morning while landing and came to rest in a muddy field with several pieces broken off. "We felt the plane jerk up as he was trying to pull up, and we didn't make it," passenger John Wahlen said. "Then we hit, and we slid. It seemed like forever." "It flashed through my mind for a second this could be it," said another passenger, Kerry Heidebrecht. One passenger said the plane bounced a couple of times, tearing his seat belt and causing the seat in front of him to come loose from its floor mount. But none of the 115 passengers and six crew members aboard Flight 1340 from Kansas City was hurt when the plane landed at O'Hare In- ternational Airport on Monday morning. A firefighter helping evacuate passengers from the Boeing 727 cut his head. National Transportation Safety Board investigators arrived at the site Monday evening. NTSB spokeswoman Shelly Hazle said the jet landed 200 yards short of the runway and eventually came to rest in the mud. She did not know if the plane had notified air traffic controllers of any problem before landing. There was dense fog at the time. American spokesman Al Comeaux said the airline would not discuss damage to the aircraft. But television footage showed the plane rest- ing on its belly in the field with an engine broken off and a piece of landing gear lying several yards away. Damage to a wing could also be seen. Don Zochert, spokesman for the regional office of the Federal Aviation Administration, said the plane came to rest off the right side of the runway, about 2,500 feet from the landing end. The runway, one of six, is closed pending the NTSB investigation. "It's going to be quite a job getting the aircraft out of the mud," said city Aviation Commissioner Mary Rose Loney. "In all like- lihood, we're going to have to build a temporary road to get to the aircraft just to stage the heavy equipment, such as cranes, that we need." Loney said it is up to American Airlines to determine if the airplane is salvageable. If not, the plane could be cut up and hauled away. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Pilots blamed in F-16 collision WASHINGTON (February 10, 1998 6:54 p.m.) -- Pilot error caused the midair collision of two National Guard F-16s in New Jersey last September during a night training exercise, according to a military investigation released Tuesday. The pilot and co-pilot of one of the F-16s were too busy donning night vision goggles to notice they were coming up too fast on the tail of the other F-16 and the sole pilot of the struck aircraft had unwisely turned off his exterior lights just a minute before collision, the report said. All three pilots survived the Sept. 16, 1997, mishap, one of a series of military crashes that prompted Defense Secretary William Cohen to order a 24-hour "stand down," or halt in flights, to review safety procedures. "The cause of the incident was pilot error on the part of all three pilots involved in the accident," concluded the Air Force investigation released by the New Jersey National Guard. "Contri- buting to the accident was a lack of communication between the pilots of both aircraft along with the distraction associated with the donning of night vision goggles." Maj. John Barton, who was in control of the two-seat F-16D, and Maj. Thomas Bartel, his instructor pilot, ejected and parachuted into the Atlantic Ocean, about 30 miles southeast of Atlantic City. The collision occurred just minutes after they took off from the Atlantic City base where the Air National Guard 177th Fighter Wing is based. Capt. Scott Mulgrew, pilot of the single-seat F-16C, whose left wing was struck by a podlike missile carrier underneath the other plane, managed to limp back to the base with his severely crippled aircraft. Barton and Mulgrew remain grounded pending further review, ac- cording to the Guard. Bartel, considered less culpable in the crash, is back flying. According to the report, the night training exercise was flawed from the beginning, starting with an inadequate briefing -- "incom- plete by any standard" -- that was conducted by Barton about the mission plans. Mulgrew, for example, came away with the idea that he was sup- posed to automatically shut off his lights after taking off first and reaching the appropriate altitude and flight speed. But Barton and Bartel, in the chase plane, understood he wasn't supposed to kill his lights until after they radioed him that the exercise should begin, according to the report. The follow-on plane also didn't maintain a required "radar lock" on the single-seat F-16 -- which kept readjusting its speed -- in order to maintain adequate air space, the report said. About 100 seconds before impact, at 7,000 feet altitude, Bartel handed control of the F-16D to Barton so he could adjust his night vision goggles. But they failed to communicate the distance between their plane and the other F-16 and altitude, the report said. Barton, whose eyesight was impaired because his goggles were lowered but not turned on, told investigators he "felt bad" at that point about his "situational awareness," or sense of where his F-16 was in the sky. "The fact that lights were out may have made it impossible to 'see and avoid' (Mulgrew) even if the pilots had had SA," or situational awareness, the report concluded, blaming all three pilots. The report found no evidence of maintenance problems in the planes. === --- DB 1.39/004487 * Origin: Volunteer BBS (423) 694-0791 V34+/VFC (1:218/1001.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00013 Date: 02/11/98 From: JIM SANDERS Time: 06:43am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: News-030 WASHINGTON (Feb. 10) - The Air Force announced a series of cuts and consolidations Tuesday at domestic bases, including some direct- ed by Congress, that will cost thousands of jobs in some states but add jobs in others. Among the hardest hit will be California, Texas and Nebraska. Georgia will be among the gainers as it inherits depot mainten- ance and other jobs from McClellan Air Force Base, Calif., and Kelly Air Force Base, Texas. The changes are the latest in a series of adjustments the Air Force and other military services have made since the end of the Cold War to reduce the size of the armed forces, achieve savings in operations and close bases. Air Force headquarters at the Pentagon said it had no estimate of the overall cost savings expected from the changes, some of which have been in the works for years. Some of the adjustments reflect decisions by the Defense Depart- ment to reassign key missions. For example Offutt Air Force Base, Neb., will lose 419 jobs as the Navy takes over the mission of pro- viding an emergency airborne command post which the Air Force had done for decades with EC-135 Looking Glass planes. The transition is projected to save $250 million a year. That change, plus others at Offutt will result in a net reduction of 623 jobs. In California, McClellan will lose 290 military and 24 civilian jobs as the work of the 938th Engineering and Installation Squadron is privatized. Changes at McClellan required by the Base Realignment and Closure Commission will transfer 825 civilian jobs to the Army Depot at Tobyhanna, Pa. Overall, changes at McClellan will result in a net lost of 1,494 military and 3,596 civilian jobs. Also, California's Onizuka Air Station will lose 257 jobs. In Texas, Kelly Air Force Base will lose 290 military and 24 civilian jobs as the 838th Engineering and Installation Squadron is inactivated. Streamlining of the Air Intelligence Agency at Kelly will take away 41 military and 53 civilian jobs. Kelly's loss of C-5 depot maintenance work will cost it 1,057 civilian jobs, and further reductions in work at Kelly through fiscal year 2001 will result in a loss of 4,160 military and 6,500 civilian jobs. That will be partly offset at Lackland Air Force base, which will add 3,778 military and 2,070 civilian jobs through 2001 as a result of some Kelly activities shifting to Lackland. In Utah, changes at Hill Air Force Base required by the Base Realignment and Closure Commission will add 280 military and 1,620 civilian posts through 2001. In Oklahoma, Tinker Air Force Base will undergo a series of ad- justments and cuts that will result in a reduction of 358 military jobs but an increase of 1,096 civilian jobs. Georgia will be among the biggest gainers. Although Moody Air Force Base will lose 24 A/OA-10 aircraft through fiscal year 2000, resulting in the loss of 542 military jobs, it will add a fighter training mission in year 2000 and gain 238 jobs. Changes at Robins Air Force Base, Ga., as required by the Base Realignment and Closure Commission, will add 614 military and 2,479 civilian jobs through 2001. === --- DB 1.39/004487 * Origin: Volunteer BBS (423) 694-0791 V34+/VFC (1:218/1001.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00014 Date: 02/11/98 From: JIM SANDERS Time: 11:28am \/To: RAYMOND YATES (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: news-876 RAYMOND, In a message dated 02-09-98 you wrote ... > I hope you were able to watch the POW Escapes program on Discovery > Or A&E or one of those channels, I fear Netlag prevented me from > alerting you to it sooner {it was on Monday Night} . As I have to > work I will probably miss it. I saw the one on Discovery that started with the revolution and came up to Tom, Dick and Harry of WW II. I did not think it was too well done. Some little mistakes... at Luft III > I thought the concept of constructing a Glider at Colditz in the > basement A great try.. I think the war ended before they could use the glider. -=* Jim Sanders *=- === * MsgView V1.13 [R028] * --- DB 1.39/004487 * Origin: Volunteer BBS (423) 694-0791 V34+/VFC (1:218/1001.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 196 AVIATION Ref: F2H00015 Date: 02/11/98 From: JIM SANDERS Time: 11:28am \/To: JIM DAWSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: news-972 JIM, In a message dated 02-09-98 you wrote ... > United nad Frontier have worked out a deal to honor remaining Wes Pac > tickets and are interviewing agents and reservation people. American > trans Air is going to have Denver-Chicago service in the near future. > They have a lesson to learn. Lots of close "in-fighting" against these economy airlines. -=* Jim Sanders *=- === * MsgView V1.13 [R028] * I woke above ground again today. --- DB 1.39/004487 * Origin: Volunteer BBS (423) 694-0791 V34+/VFC (1:218/1001.1)